Development at 31st/Peoria?

[Jeff P]

Well, I confess, I have just gone down a rabbit hole on this development and related development from Kaiser and TGP, the possible Crow Creek trail, and the like.   Spent waaayyy too much time thing morning, but pretty cool stuff.

When you say North of 34th on the West side, what area do you mean?  The area South of Crow Creek is already commercial (but yes, could be improved upon), and the area North of the Creek on the SW corner of Peoria and 32 st is owned by Kaiser.  (Who I assume is holding it as part of the proposed trail.)  North of that is all existing residential.

After looking at what Kaiser owns, it could make sense to acquire the land immediately across Peoria and South of the line that would be the extended 32st, and make some kind of entry into Brookside, with the requisite parks, etc.   Any non- residential development North of the 32 st street line seems (IMHO) intrusive on the current residential nature of the area.

Yeah "developed" probably wasn't the right word since, as you noted, it's already commercial... So yes, "improved" is the operative word. I wish the building that includes Shades of Brown and 3 Tequillas had a larger base of more stable tenants and I especially wish the landlord would keep up the streetscape up like the building owners to the south do.

My hope would be that this really nice commercial development at 31st & Peoria, along with whatever cool stuff Kaiser has planned for that area around Crow Creek, would spur some big improvements in that area.

[SXSW]

Yeah "developed" probably wasn't the right word since, as you noted, it's already commercial... So yes, "improved" is the operative word. I wish the building that includes Shades of Brown and 3 Tequillas had a larger base of more stable tenants and I especially wish the landlord would keep up the streetscape up like the building owners to the south do.

My hope would be that this really nice commercial development at 31st & Peoria, along with whatever cool stuff Kaiser has planned for that area around Crow Creek, would spur some big improvements in that area.

If there was ever a good redevelopment opportunity in Brookside "proper" it is the building with the wing shop and tattoo parlor at the corner of 33rd Pl.  That would be a good spot for a nicer mixed-use development with apartments or condos above retail that eliminates that corner parking lot. 

I wonder if at some point the homes along the north side of 33rd Place will be acquired as part of the Phase 3 work along Crow Creek.

[rebound]

If there was ever a good redevelopment opportunity in Brookside "proper" it is the building with the wing shop and tattoo parlor at the corner of 33rd Pl.  That would be a good spot for a nicer mixed-use development with apartments or condos above retail that eliminates that corner parking lot. 

I wonder if at some point the homes along the north side of 33rd Place will be acquired as part of the Phase 3 work along Crow Creek.

Agreed.  That corner would be perfect for mixed use.

Regarding the North side of 33rd PL.   See below for a very crude map I made a few days ago.  The areas in yellow are already owned by city or Kaiser.  The blue are all owned by the same individual.     

[Tulsan]

Agreed.  That corner would be perfect for mixed use.

Regarding the North side of 33rd PL.   See below for a very crude map I made a few days ago.  The areas in yellow are already owned by city or Kaiser.  The blue are all owned by the same individual.      

Great map. Kaiser actually controls more property than that - RSD Properties LLC is also a Kaiser vehicle and owns 1007 E 33 Pl (the triangle of condos backing up to the creek) as well as many of the parcels west of Cincinnati on 33 pl.

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Developers host informational session for proposed development of Tulsa basketball legend's Brookside property

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/developers-host-informational-session-for-proposed-development-of-tulsa-basketball-legends-brookside-property/article_dc1a7ad5-b09e-52b1-bcf2-f9c18e9b6f42.html

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

"This will absolutely ruin the neighborhood. Having visitors, many of whom will likely be of middle and, God forbid, lower income status that close to what is almost literally our back yard will be the biggest disaster in the area since the failure they call 'The Gathering Place'. Look what that did to our property values! What am I supposed to tell my children? This will be no place to raise children, much less even drive in the area.

...

"My only question is why can't they build this in North Tulsa? Aren't they begging for development there? Here, take this one. We don't want it and frankly I'll spend far too much of my life stopping this shady money grab. There will be no business in my neighborhood. You can count on that. Do you know how many lawyers live in this neighborhood? Put this garbage downtown which is already rampantly full of street riffraff trying to find their next place to party.

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/developers-host-informational-session-for-proposed-development-of-tulsa-basketball-legends-brookside-property/article_dc1a7ad5-b09e-52b1-bcf2-f9c18e9b6f42.html#1

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/developers-host-informational-session-for-proposed-development-of-tulsa-basketball-legends-brookside-property/article_dc1a7ad5-b09e-52b1-bcf2-f9c18e9b6f42.html

I can only imagine the "intelligible" responses from the public they will receive.

Might be a bit like the Gathering Place: Oh no! My million dollar mansion is now worth 2 million!? I might have to cash out and live comfortably the rest of my life because I don't like change and don't like going outside and enjoying the highest dollar public park in the history of the world! I had to move 5 blocks away to get away from all the traffic! (I know people who live 2 blocks away and have had zero negative effects since the first grand opening month).

This will be a preview of responses for phases 2 & 3 of the Gathering Place. It will increase traffic and density, but that is a good thing for a city that wishes to bring in the kind of people who can help make it a city of the future. Startups, remote jobs and tech jobs are filled by the kind of urbanites who want to live in neighborhoods like this would become with this sort of development (it's currently close for sure, but this and Gathering Place future phases would take it to another level). Utica Square should follow this path.

I am not a fan of how the rendering looks, but the overall idea of it is awesome. Townhomes all around, garage hidden and tall buildings in the middle, hidden pretty well from surrounding neighborhood. I wish the styling was a bit better, but overall this project would be transformative for the area. I am thankful the kids of Robert Patterson (Go TU!) are forward thinking and willing to undertake such a huge risk.

[SXSW]

I like all of the big trees on this lot and hope they can preserve many of them with this development.  I always envisioned this as a denser residential neighborhood similar to the one just to the east along 31st so it's hard to imagine it with a large tower.  I think if there is any kind of compromise between the developers and neighborhood it would be to eliminate or significantly reduce the commercial portion of the project and keep it mostly residential.

[SXSW]

Great map. Kaiser actually controls more property than that - RSD Properties LLC is also a Kaiser vehicle and owns 1007 E 33 Pl (the triangle of condos backing up to the creek) as well as many of the parcels west of Cincinnati on 33 pl.

If they were to acquire all of those parcels along 33rd Pl (in blue) they could do a really incredible mixed-use development there that truly connects the river to Brookside.  Who owns the property to the south of the Patterson estate adjacent to Crow Creek?

Patterson Estate/Brookside31 (in red)
Gathering Place Phase III (in yellow)
Crow Creek Trail (in green)

[LandArchPoke]

...

https://tulsaworld.com/news/local/government-and-politics/developers-host-informational-session-for-proposed-development-of-tulsa-basketball-legends-brookside-property/article_dc1a7ad5-b09e-52b1-bcf2-f9c18e9b6f42.html#1

Wow, that's what I've got to say to some of those comments.

The irony of this is the people making these extreme comments about this development are 100% the same people who screamed above placing a historical overlay for the neighborhood which would have made it harder for developers to tear down old homes and thus stabilizing the neighborhood more and given much more power to the neighborhood associations. But people screamed about property rights and you can't tell me what to do with my property! And they are now standing up there and telling someone else what to do with their property?

Funny how things like that work sometimes.

Some of these comments remind me of the sidewalk debate a few years back and look at what a disaster that was (sarcasm) and how much crime that brought to all those homes because oh my god the horror of pedestrians and hooligans who might enjoy walking!!!

[TulsaGoldenHurriCAN]

Wow, that's what I've got to say to some of those comments.

The irony of this is the people making these extreme comments about this development are 100% the same people who screamed above placing a historical overlay for the neighborhood which would have made it harder for developers to tear down old homes and thus stabilizing the neighborhood more and given much more power to the neighborhood associations. But people screamed about property rights and you can't tell me what to do with my property! And they are now standing up there and telling someone else what to do with their property?

Funny how things like that work sometimes.

Some of these comments remind me of the sidewalk debate a few years back and look at what a disaster that was (sarcasm) and how much crime that brought to all those homes because oh my god the horror of pedestrians and hooligans who might enjoy walking!!!

Those "comments" were satirical. I just recalled all the negative comments I remember about the Gathering Place and other similar developments and tried to combine them into as succinct of a cluster I could muster! I know they have real concerns (extra traffic, connection to neighborhood, light pollution, big building right there), but even if they don't change the zoning, they can still do a smaller version of this with pure residential so it's not like they'll be able to stop it completely. Time to accept the neighborhood is transitioning certain parts into the 21st century.

[LandArchPoke]

Those "comments" were satirical. I just recalled all the negative comments I remember about the Gathering Place and other similar developments and tried to combine them into as succinct of a cluster I could muster! I know they have real concerns (extra traffic, connection to neighborhood, light pollution, big building right there), but even if they don't change the zoning, they can still do a smaller version of this with pure residential so it's not like they'll be able to stop it completely. Time to accept the neighborhood is transitioning certain parts into the 21st century.

Ha, gotcha! Sad part is I'm pretty sure all of those things were said during the sidewalk from Gathering place to 21st Street so that's why I figured those had actually been said.

I would say, if the neighborhood does feel so upset at the end, maybe they should get more serious about working with the city on some additional zoning overlays that would help keep the 'character' of the neighborhood similar to what it is now. I'd love to see some more regulations put on new home construction to make them fit in better with the neighborhood like requiring garages to not be at the front or not make up over 30% of the front facade. Simply pushing the garages to the back of the lots or side entry would make a huge difference in preserving a lot of the architectural charm of the area.

[rebound]

I've been monitoring the responses on Next Door and similar.   Some are obviously over-wrought,  but most are rational and not opposed to basically any kind of residential development.  Simply that retail/commercial is not a good fit at that location.    There are some really good conversations buried in the mix regarding planned use.   I have not dug into the source docs yet, but basically the property in question is noted as a "growth" area, but no change in zoning is mentioned.  It seems obvious that "something" will be built out on that plot, but it was always assumed it would be residential of some form.  Also, there is a separate zoning for the Cherry Street area, stopping at Crow Creek.  Which also seems to indicate that commercial was intended to stop at Crow Creek, and all North of there was planned to be residential.  (Which coincides with my earlier observations, even though I was unaware of these documents/directions at the time.)

[rebound]

Great map. Kaiser actually controls more property than that - RSD Properties LLC is also a Kaiser vehicle and owns 1007 E 33 Pl (the triangle of condos backing up to the creek) as well as many of the parcels west of Cincinnati on 33 pl.

I did not know RSD was Kaiser.  They own several parcels in the area. Interesting. Its great they own those condos, as I saw that as a parcel that would have to be acquired to build the path.   

[rebound]

If they were to acquire all of those parcels along 33rd Pl (in blue) they could do a really incredible mixed-use development there that truly connects the river to Brookside.  Who owns the property to the south of the Patterson estate adjacent to Crow Creek?

Patterson Estate/Brookside31 (in red)
Gathering Place Phase III (in yellow)
Crow Creek Trail (in green)

I can't see your graphic...   (Might be just me.)