Solar Installers

[dbacksfan 2.0]

From the  link:
Natural gas is methane.  Please explain how burning methane emits methane.  CO2 yes, methane no.

You know that, and I know that, and most people that have an understanding and a grasp of petrochemical products knows that. The CNN expert doesn't know that.

[buffalodan]

Our system is up. Waiting on PSO to come out and finish out the meter so we have a few more weeks until everything is operational. We did opt for net metering. Again, with current cost of batteries we couldn't justify having them as an energy backup. We should be fully operation by August, so I can post an electric bill for June and one for August so people can get a glimpse of what the solar costs looks like in the real world. We've have a lot of gas appliances (car, heater, stove, water heater, dryer) that I'm hoping to ween ourselves off as when we need replacements, which should help offset some of the loss through net metering that we anticipate having.

So far its been a smooth install process. There is a lot of waiting around for different groups to inspect/come out. But just 2 days of them crawling around on the roof and in the attic.

[patric]

Our system is up. Waiting on PSO to come out and finish out the meter so we have a few more weeks until everything is operational. We did opt for net metering. Again, with current cost of batteries we couldn't justify having them as an energy backup. We should be fully operation by August, so I can post an electric bill for June and one for August so people can get a glimpse of what the solar costs looks like in the real world. We've have a lot of gas appliances (car, heater, stove, water heater, dryer) that I'm hoping to ween ourselves off as when we need replacements, which should help offset some of the loss through net metering that we anticipate having.

So far its been a smooth install process. There is a lot of waiting around for different groups to inspect/come out. But just 2 days of them crawling around on the roof and in the attic.

Hopefully someone explained that any excess generation that gets sold back is compensated in the form of credits on future electric bills, so there may be a few months lag before you get a good picture of your payback.
I would have opted for at least one battery so you can have some power to your house from your system at night, and smooth out the output on cloudy days.

Im curious, did they wire your "production meter" so that its before any of your breaker panels, or only before the connection to the grid?
The former only make sense if the purpose of the meter is to act as PSO's remote kill switch, which shouldnt be necessary with a modern inverter.
Your main "Smart" meter is bi-directional, so they would know right away just from that how much power you were feeding back into the grid.

Also, did you see any action on the tax credit, or did your installer build that into their price?

[buffalodan]

Everything is up. The app/monitor (sense) is having trouble reading how much energy the house is using up right now, but the panels are currently producing about 5,000w. I'll have a better review in a month after we get our first bill post-solar. We started this process on April 20, so 3 months from signing paperwork to having a functioning system.

The guys can do the battery install. If we do end up with an EV this winter, I'll probably try to get a battery installed next year.

So panels go to the inverter, which then goes to a PSO meter, which then goes to a disconnect, then to the box. Then back to a different PSO meter. The reasoning is that PSO wants to know how much energy you are generating as well as how much you are using. Which, whatever.

We got the paperwork for the tax credit, but it wasn't "priced" into the quote. We will handle all of it ourselves. Most of the lenders had an option to redo the monthly prices after a year, with the understanding that you could you take your tax refund and apply it to the loan. Not sure what we will do.

Anyway, if you looking at Solar/Batteries. I would definitely recommend the people at Radical Solar. There's no referral code or anything, but they were great to work with, knowledgeable, and very relaxed.

[patric]

So panels go to the inverter, which then goes to a PSO meter, which then goes to a disconnect, then to the box. Then back to a different PSO meter. The reasoning is that PSO wants to know how much energy you are generating as well as how much you are using. Which, whatever.

The second meter is what they call a "production" meter which measures the total energy you produce, NOT how much you are sending to PSO.  Since your regular (bi-directional) meter is the one that measures how much power you send back, the "production" meter makes no sense until you realize that it is really nothing but a remote-control kill switch that shuts off your entire system at PSO's whim.

If you elect to not sell back power to PSO (Net Metering) you can request that they not install the second meter.

[patric]

Anyway, if you looking at Solar/Batteries. I would definitely recommend the people at Radical Solar. There's no referral code or anything, but they were great to work with, knowledgeable, and very relaxed.

I finally got a reply from them and they were easygoing but not very Radical when it comes to doing anything besides selling power back to PSO with your Tesla system that wont work in a power failure.  I just want a big frickin' whole-house UPS, thats all...

ADDED: When I suggested they install just unconnected panels for me to work on later, they declined out of fear PSO would be mad at them for not requiring me to connect them to their grid.  I assumed they were at least familiar with the state laws and the Corporation Commission rules that govern their business and would know better.  (hint: just because its a solar panel doesnt mean you are required to connect it to PSO.)

[patric]

Most likely closer to $4 per Watt installed solar.  

Im looking at about $4.80 per watt, but its a system that will keep my fridge and AC going when the neighborhood goes dark.

[Red Arrow]

Im looking at about $4.80 per watt, but its a system that will keep my fridge and AC going when the neighborhood goes dark.

Did you find someone to both connect to PSO to sell electricity and to be a backup for your house?  Did you get enough watts to run the whole house(or selected components of the house?) during daylight without drawing the battery down?

[patric]

Did you find someone to both connect to PSO to sell electricity and to be a backup for your house?  Did you get enough watts to run the whole house(or selected components of the house?) during daylight without drawing the battery down?

I wont be exporting power to PSO.
In Oklahoma, at least, Net Metering is hogwash.  No way would I spend thousands on a PV system that I wouldnt be able to use in a blackout.
I will still have the Frankenstein's-lab-sized cutoff switch after the PSO meter to guarantee isolation, but the hybrid inverter automatically does that in software.

Having at least one battery for storage is a necessity; I can add more as I get a feel of how the system performs.

[Red Arrow]

I wont be exporting power to PSO.
In Oklahoma, at least, Net Metering is hogwash.  No way would I spend thousands on a PV system that I wouldnt be able to use in a blackout.
I will still have the Frankenstein's-lab-sized cutoff switch after the PSO meter to guarantee isolation, but the hybrid inverter automatically does that in software.

Having at least one battery for storage is a necessity; I can add more as I get a feel of how the system performs.

Sounds like a good plan to me.  Too bad OK and PSO don't recognize the technology that would allow solar powered folks to ease the pain on the grid during the hot summer days as well as provide for power outage back-up for individuals.  Must be related to education. We need to fix the public and private school systems in OK but that's for another thread.

[patric]

Sounds like a good plan to me.  Too bad OK and PSO don't recognize the technology that would allow solar powered folks to ease the pain on the grid during the hot summer days as well as provide for power outage back-up for individuals.  Must be related to education. We need to fix the public and private school systems in OK but that's for another thread.

Confusing terminology is part of the problem.
For example, you might think that the term "islanding" would mean "cut off from everything" but in corporate utility-speak it means "always connected and distributing power" which is a no-no.
Being ten years behind the curve is nothing new for PSO unfortunately.

[swake]

Confusing terminology is part of the problem.
For example, you might think that the term "islanding" would mean "cut off from everything" but in corporate utility-speak it means "always connected and distributing power" which is a no-no.
Being ten years behind the curve is nothing new for PSO unfortunately.

Do other electric utility companies allow this? PSO(AEP) is the fourth largest electric utility company in the country. It's not like they are a small local outfit.

[patric]

Do other electric utility companies allow this? PSO(AEP) is the fourth largest electric utility company in the country. It's not like they are a small local outfit.

I agree. I dont think its coincidence that Oklahoma utilities tried to push thru the same wording on a new tax on rooftop solar as was done in California, for example.

https://solarrights.org/the-utilities-are-the-masterminds-behind-the-smear-campaign-against-rooftop-solar/
https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/3512310-Edison-Electric-Institute-Communications-Handbook.html

Our Corporation Commission stopped it (but later dropped the ball by OK'ing so-called "securitization" where we pay an emergency rate increase for the 2021 winter storm over the next quarter century:  https://oklahomawatch.org/2022/02/11/oklahoma-customers-paid-billions-for-natural-gas-in-last-winters-storm-heres-who-cashed-in%EF%BF%BC/ ).

Its likely the same groupthink that set the standards on Tulsa's multi-million overhaul of our streetlight system based on obsolete data that has been outdated for more than a decade.  Yes, there's another thread for that.

[patric]

Too bad OK and PSO don't recognize the technology that would allow solar powered folks to ease the pain on the grid during the hot summer days as well as provide for power outage back-up for individuals.

Im also thinking of cold winter nights where we had rolling blackouts in Tulsa because Texas was unprepared for extreme winters.

Another example of how far behind the curve AEP is; Im sure they are aware of this, but I seriously doubt any of the solar installers within reach of Oklahoma are:

' Some designs, commonly known as a microgrid, allow for intentional islanding. In case of a power outage, a microgrid controller disconnects the local circuit from the grid on a dedicated switch and forces the distributed generator(s) to power the entire local load.[1][2] A common example of intentional islanding is a distribution feeder that has solar panels attached to it. In the case of an outage, the solar panels will continue to deliver power as long as irradiance is sufficient. In this case, the circuit detached by the outage becomes an "island". For this reason, solar inverters that are designed to supply power to the grid are generally required to have some sort of automatic anti-islanding circuitry.

Given the activity in the field, and the large variety of methods that have been developed to detect islanding, it is important to consider whether or not the problem actually demands the amount of effort being expended.
If an islanding issue does exist, it appears to be limited to certain types of generators. A 2004 Canadian report concluded that synchronous generators, installations like microhydro, were the main concern. These systems may have considerable mechanical inertia that will provide a useful signal. For inverter-based systems, the report largely dismissed the problem, stating: "Anti-islanding technology for inverter based DG systems is much better developed, and published risk assessments suggest that the current technology and standards provide adequate protection while penetration of DG into the distribution system remains relatively low."
Nevertheless, utility companies have continued to use islanding as a reason to delay or refuse the implementation of distributed generation systems. '
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Islanding

[whoatown]

Why did they build power plants here that all the power got sent to black out city California?

None of it went into Oklahomas grid.