Towerview Apartments

[pmcalk]

We had asbestos in our 1920's bungalow as well.  What suprised me was that it really wasn't that expensive to remove.  Not cheap--but less than a couple of thousand to remove it all.  People are very quick to write off buildings simply because they have asbestos.

[NellieBly]

Has anyone seen the editorial cartoon in the paper today. It depicts Mayor Taylor as the arsonist.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by NellieBly

Has anyone seen the editorial cartoon in the paper today. It depicts Mayor Taylor as the arsonist.

Was her hair on fire......

[RecycleMichael]

Here is the cartoon...

http://www.tulsaworld.com/MarletteCartoonsStory.asp?ID=070117_Op_a12_toon

Very tacky.

[MichaelC]

I'm not particularly fond of the blame the gov't/conspiracy angle, but given the circumstances I thought it was kind of cute.

[carltonplace]

The Towerview owner tells the Tulsa World that he will pay for demolition of the building, and now that HH has been kicked to the curb, says he might build condos (uh-huh)

Article

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

The Towerview owner tells the Tulsa World that he will pay for demolition of the building, and now that HH has been kicked to the curb, says he might build condos (uh-huh)

Article

Perhaps the owner read PRH's savvy comments?

[TheArtist]

So if the guy tears down the Towerview and says he is considering building condos on the property.  How could the city then use eminent domain to take the property from him?  If the point of eminent domain in this case was to aquire the property for economic development, well, wouldn't building condos be economic development?

As someone has noted before, we have plenty of hotels downtown and the current cost of building a new high end hotel would be far more than the likely ability to make a profit on the hotel. A decent mid range hotel would be our best hope considering downtowns near future market.

That corner block having a mid level hotel building with a new condominium building wouldn't be such a bad outcome.

If the owner of the towerview is using the "I may build condos on the spot" as a bargaining  ploy to keep the value up so he can get the best price from the city that wants it.  This would seem to backfire to me, since the city most likely wont be able to use eminent domain to force a purchase, and building condos would be in the interest of the city anyway. So he would be left with a piece of dirt nobody else seems to want and a city hoping he will build condos on it.

Plus at this point why would the city want the property anyway?  Is there a developer in the wings they aren't telling anyone about who would need the whole area including the Towerview lot?

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

So if the guy tears down the Towerview and says he is considering building condos on the property.  How could the city then use eminent domain to take the property from him?  If the point of eminent domain in this case was to aquire the property for economic development, well, wouldn't building condos be economic development?

As someone has noted before, we have plenty of hotels downtown and the current cost of building a new high end hotel would be far more than the likely ability to make a profit on the hotel. A decent mid range hotel would be our best hope considering downtowns near future market.

Eminent domain has its roots in the English common law, where the sovereign was considered to have the inherent right to take property for public use.  

Enter the Bill of Rights and the takings clause of the Fifth Amendment: ". . . nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation."  The Constitution requires "public use" and "just compensation" for any governmental taking of private property.

The Supreme Court has generally held the definition of "public use" to be expansive.  It basically includes anything the government wants to do.  States can limit the definition of public use by statute, but I do not believe Oklahoma has done so (correct me if I am wrong - possibly occurred after Kelo v. New London).  

So as long as the City of Tulsa gives proper due process and pays fair market value (not inflated by speculation), eminent domain is always available.  It is only limited by the political will of the city.

[TheArtist]

But why would the city want it now that nobody else wants it and the guy is saying he may put up condos?

[CoffeeBean]

quote:The Supreme Court has generally held the definition of "public use" to be expansive. It basically includes anything the government wants to do. States can limit the definition of public use by statute, but I do not believe Oklahoma has done so (correct me if I am wrong - possibly occurred after Kelo v. New London).

Not by statute, but through a provision in the State Constitution (Art 2, Sec. 23).  From a post-Kelo Oklahoma Supreme Court in Board of County Commissioners of Muskogee Co. v. Lowery:

quote:To the extent that our determination may be interpreted as inconsistent with the U.S. Supreme Court's holding in Kelo v. City of New London, today's pronouncement is reached on the basis of Oklahoma's own special constitutional eminent domain provisions, Art. 2, §§ 23 & 24 of the Oklahoma Constitution, which we conclude provide private property protection to Oklahoma citizens beyond that which is afforded them by the Fifth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution. In other words, we determine that our state constitutional eminent domain provisions place more stringent limitation on governmental eminent domain power than the limitations imposed by the Fifth Amendment of the U.S. Constitution

[rwarn17588]

What credibility does the Towerview owner have? He said more than a year ago that he was going to fix up the building, then nothing.

Yet we expect to believe him when he says he's going to develop the land for condos?

Based on his track record, his claims carry the same weight as "I'm planning on making the Towerview float on air."

[carltonplace]

He has very little credibility.

I would rather see mixed use development, restaurants and retail on this block than a hotel.

[TheArtist]

I would love to have mixed use development on the property on and near the Towerview as well.  But, so far all we have is a guy, without the best track record, and.... who else?

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

and.... who else?

That is a question for you to wonder about and "Himelfarb" to know the answer to....

To say that HH was the only potential investor is like saying IVI is the only company that would be willing to build a bridge in south Tulsa... Aint So......