Towerview Apartments

[TheArtist]

We do need a nice hotel downtown.  And yes, something with a nice lobby.  The lobbies of the hotels in downtown Tulsa are laaaame. I was in the Double Tree a while back to see some friends who were in from out of town on business.  I was embarrassed and humiliated at the style, look, and quality of the place.  I had thought, that hotel was supposed to be one of the nice ones. The Crowne Plaza is set to undergo a 10 million$ renovation which it desperately needs, cudos to them.  

It would be nice to have a hotel that downtown Tulsa could be proud of.  Yes I love the Ambassador as a small, charming,  historic, hotel, but that is a different type of hotel than what I am talking about.  I would recommend the Ambassador over the Double Tree in any case.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by PRH

The City of Tulsa has given the owner of the Towerview a really raw deal.

And you guys wonder why no one invests here?

The word is out among private developers - stay out of Tulsa.

Suppose you could give us a short list of the investors that you make reference to..?

Kanbar and Kaufman.?, Schneider.? (sp?}, Helmerich.?, Global Development.?,.......

It would be very Educational to us all to have this much insight....!

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

We do need a nice hotel downtown.  And yes, something with a nice lobby.  The lobbies of the hotels in downtown Tulsa are laaaame. I was in the Double Tree a while back to see some friends who were in from out of town on business.  I was embarrassed and humiliated at the style, look, and quality of the place.  I had thought, that hotel was supposed to be one of the nice ones. The Crowne Plaza is set to undergo a 10 million$ renovation which it desperately needs, cudos to them.  

It would be nice to have a hotel that downtown Tulsa could be proud of.  Yes I love the Ambassador as a small, charming,  historic, hotel, but that is a different type of hotel than what I am talking about.  I would recommend the Ambassador over the Double Tree in any case.

You let a hotel lobby embarrass and humiliate you....I had friends stay there and they were just fine with it...I didn't feel anything at all...

[Rico]

Originally posted by the Artist.

quote:

It would be nice to have a hotel that downtown Tulsa could be proud of. Yes I love the Ambassador as a small, charming, historic, hotel, but that is a different type of hotel than what I am talking about. I would recommend the Ambassador over the Double Tree in any case.

Senor Arteest... I have no knowledge of how the plan is going.. But just as a side note... you may want to stop in the "Savoy Hotel" and see how the development that he is working on is coming along.. At one time the furniture for this project was to have been custom made by "Mark Hawley - Hawley Designs".


Not... that it would be a Hotel that could accommodate all the "brown shoe" salesmen that attend many conventions... But it may appeal to the more artistic types that visit Tulsa...

[jdb]

The word is out among private developers - stay out of Tulsa.

I agree:

TU cares squat about the surrounding hood and continues - unabated - to stomp around like a Spoiled Child King.
We raze homes in an HP zone to build a parking lot for a bank.
The Mayor reverse's his largeness on endorsing a new HP hood.
wal-mart (spit) has Red Carpet parking lots.
Small Biz dudes are ignored so Boeing can be offered a handout.

It's a list of smaller events that number in the billions. Hard to point a lone finger at but word gets around.

Hell, our "Day to Come" doesn't look so good either if you recall the first thing K&K did was raze a DT building (and not much since), and then cast a glance at GDP, which is stalled with the same issues all the other giants conked their head against.

However:

This could be a happening location on a larger scale but this will require visionary people to actually roll up their sleeves, a mayor with more depth than a soundbite, shoppers that understand, and actually care about social fabric...

Several cigarettes later:

In the course of a single year: production companies can do litte more than pour a cup of coffee and developers can accomplish little more then hire an attoney.

Besides, the Towerview deal has been hinkey from the beginning.

Ponder why and who determined the arena location.
Look at who stood to profit.
Look at who owns the property now, opps.
Look at what new owner is having to deal with.
Coming up, lets follow the money that might be reaped from this lone lot of potential developement.

There is a reason no local boys put their hat in the ring for this juicey little property...it's what finally dawned on HH as they were laughed out of town.

Gimme back my football, jdb

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by PRH

quote:Originally posted by Rico

quote:Originally posted by PRH

The City of Tulsa has given the owner of the Towerview a really raw deal.

And you guys wonder why no one invests here?

The word is out among private developers - stay out of Tulsa.

Suppose you could give us a short list of the investors that you make reference to..?

Kanbar and Kaufman.?, Schneider.? (sp?}, Helmerich.?, Global Development.?,.......

It would be very Educational to us all to have this much insight....!

More snide questions, Rico?  Don't you ever get tired of playing the sly mexican?  It's not really very flattering.

I know what I'm talking about because I move in the same social circles as a lot of people who are the big builders in this area, but I'm not going to repeat their off-the-record comments online.  I'm not a gossip.

Kanbar and Kaufman will learn from their mistakes. Gloval Development is a laugh. Helmrich is a home-town Tulsa operation.

If you don't think taking a property by condemning it for code violations, then taking it by eminent domain AFTER it burns is chilling to builders considering Tulsa, there's no helping your way of thinking.

As the British would say.......
Bully...!

[USRufnex]

When people describe the Towerview as an "eye-sore," they're describing conditions on the outside.  But the only people who truly knew what was going on inside were the tenants and eventually the Tulsa World and the Health Dept...

Millionaire out-of-state landlords purchased a single-room-occupancy transient hotel for $750,000 and subjected their tenants to third world squalor for six full months before they got caught... what kind of precedent would it set if these people were able to realize over a million dollars in profit from their internet speculation???

In this INDIVIDUAL case, I still believe the process of eminent domain is warranted.  If these people had... fumigated... spent a few thousand dollars to replace flea-infested bedding... spent a few hundred dollars to have a cleaning crew do a top-to-bottom of the property...

Instead, they forced tenants to purchase roach-bombs and bugspray... while at the same time charging $125 a week per unit for rent?  In Tulsa???

And we're not talking about the benefits of  capitalism and private investment here.

Why is this property valuable?

Certainly not because of private investment.
It's valuable because the taxpayers of Tulsa voted to fund an arena directly across the street from the Towerview.

Funny how Tulsans Bob and Darlene aren't allowed to put an old pickup truck on cinder blocks in their front yard... but a deadbeat landlord can be allowed to maintain rancid, filthy conditions inside his single-room-occupancy hotel?  And not suffer any consequences?  Instead, he should be allowed to profit from it???
 

[rwarn17588]

What Rufnex said.

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

When people describe the Towerview as an "eye-sore," they're describing conditions on the outside.  But the only people who truly knew what was going on inside were the tenants and eventually the Tulsa World and the Health Dept...

Millionaire out-of-state landlords purchased a single-room-occupancy transient hotel for $750,000 and subjected their tenants to third world squalor for six full months before they got caught... what kind of precedent would it set if these people were able to realize over a million dollars in profit from their internet speculation???

In this INDIVIDUAL case, I still believe the process of eminent domain is warranted.  If these people had... fumigated... spent a few thousand dollars to replace flea-infested bedding... spent a few hundred dollars to have a cleaning crew do a top-to-bottom of the property...

Instead, they forced tenants to purchase roach-bombs and bugspray... while at the same time charging $125 a week per unit for rent?  In Tulsa???

And we're not talking about the benefits of  capitalism and private investment here.

Why is this property valuable?

Certainly not because of private investment.
It's valuable because the taxpayers of Tulsa voted to fund an arena directly across the street from the Towerview.

Funny how Tulsans Bob and Darlene aren't allowed to put an old pickup truck on cinder blocks in their front yard... but a deadbeat landlord can be allowed to maintain rancid, filthy conditions inside his single-room-occupancy hotel?  And not suffer any consequences?  Instead, he should be allowed to profit from it???
 

The guy never had a chance. You've made an awful lot of assumptions.

The building was operated identically for at least 20 years prior to the ownership change.

What might make an interesting story is from whom he bought it. The prior owners are more guilty of its' condition. And, there's some chance they had word of pending action prior to sale. Thus, an 'internet' sale....hmmm. Besides, where was the City when this transaction occurred? They could've bought it on the open market then. The timeframe fits acquisitions of the other parcels on the block.

This is premeditated hijacking of personal property. Horse thievery. And, no less punishable by hanging than such.

Someone else just mentioned the BOK drive-in facility....a nearly blank square block immediately to the north. What I refer to as the 'other' part of planned development.

They're just doing the southern block first since BOK already has possesion.

We've yet to see the plan.

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

The word is out among private developers - stay out of Tulsa.

I agree:

TU cares squat about the surrounding hood and continues - unabated - to stomp around like a Spoiled Child King.
We raze homes in an HP zone to build a parking lot for a bank.
The Mayor reverse's his largeness on endorsing a new HP hood.
wal-mart (spit) has Red Carpet parking lots.
Small Biz dudes are ignored so Boeing can be offered a handout.

It's a list of smaller events that number in the billions. Hard to point a lone finger at but word gets around.

Hell, our "Day to Come" doesn't look so good either if you recall the first thing K&K did was raze a DT building (and not much since), and then cast a glance at GDP, which is stalled with the same issues all the other giants conked their head against.

However:

This could be a happening location on a larger scale but this will require visionary people to actually roll up their sleeves, a mayor with more depth than a soundbite, shoppers that understand, and actually care about social fabric...

Several cigarettes later:

In the course of a single year: production companies can do litte more than pour a cup of coffee and developers can accomplish little more then hire an attoney.

Besides, the Towerview deal has been hinkey from the beginning.

Ponder why and who determined the arena location.
Look at who stood to profit.
Look at who owns the property now, opps.
Look at what new owner is having to deal with.
Coming up, lets follow the money that might be reaped from this lone lot of potential developement.

There is a reason no local boys put their hat in the ring for this juicey little property...it's what finally dawned on HH as they were laughed out of town.

Gimme back my football, jdb

Shadows...is that you? I'm going to have to analyze those remarks some. Heading to Qt for a cigar to clear my head.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

The guy never had a chance. You've made an awful lot of assumptions.

The building was operated identically for at least 20 years prior to the ownership change.

What might make an interesting story is from whom he bought it. The prior owners are more guilty of its' condition. And, there's some chance they had word of pending action prior to sale. Thus, an 'internet' sale....hmmm. Besides, where was the City when this transaction occurred? They could've bought it on the open market then. The timeframe fits acquisitions of the other parcels on the block.

This is premeditated hijacking of personal property. Horse thievery. And, no less punishable by hanging than such.

Someone else just mentioned the BOK drive-in facility....a nearly blank square block immediately to the north. What I refer to as the 'other' part of planned development.

They're just doing the southern block first since BOK already has possesion.

We've yet to see the plan.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
The new owners had a SIX FULL MONTHS.

How do YOU know what the building was like ON THE INSIDE?

If you'd like, I can post the three part Tulsa World series on the living conditions...

If only HALF of what was said turned out to be true, these people should at the very least be paying stiff fines, if not outright jail time.

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

The guy never had a chance. You've made an awful lot of assumptions.

The building was operated identically for at least 20 years prior to the ownership change.

What might make an interesting story is from whom he bought it. The prior owners are more guilty of its' condition. And, there's some chance they had word of pending action prior to sale. Thus, an 'internet' sale....hmmm. Besides, where was the City when this transaction occurred? They could've bought it on the open market then. The timeframe fits acquisitions of the other parcels on the block.

This is premeditated hijacking of personal property. Horse thievery. And, no less punishable by hanging than such.

Someone else just mentioned the BOK drive-in facility....a nearly blank square block immediately to the north. What I refer to as the 'other' part of planned development.

They're just doing the southern block first since BOK already has possesion.

We've yet to see the plan.

Two wrongs don't make a right.
The new owners had a SIX FULL MONTHS.

How do YOU know what the building was like ON THE INSIDE?

If you'd like, I can post the three part Tulsa World series on the living conditions...

If only HALF of what was said turned out to be true, these people should at the very least be paying stiff fines, if not outright jail time.

Well, now you are being just plain silly.

Besides, if you base your knowledge on the Tulsa World, well, you know less than not reading anything at all.

You're starting to sound like the gang who railroaded this guy.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

Originally posted by the Artist.

quote:

It would be nice to have a hotel that downtown Tulsa could be proud of. Yes I love the Ambassador as a small, charming, historic, hotel, but that is a different type of hotel than what I am talking about. I would recommend the Ambassador over the Double Tree in any case.

Senor Arteest... I have no knowledge of how the plan is going.. But just as a side note... you may want to stop in the "Savoy Hotel" and see how the development that he is working on is coming along.. At one time the furniture for this project was to have been custom made by "Mark Hawley - Hawley Designs".


Not... that it would be a Hotel that could accommodate all the "brown shoe" salesmen that attend many conventions... But it may appeal to the more artistic types that visit Tulsa...

I just may have to do that, thanks for the tip.

[jdb]

"The new owners had a SIX FULL MONTHS." - USR

In this town, that's nothing unless your last name starts with a "Z".

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

Well, now you are being just plain silly.

Besides, if you base your knowledge on the Tulsa World, well, you know less than not reading anything at all.

You're starting to sound like the gang who railroaded this guy.

HELLO.  HAVE YOU NO SHAME?  HAVE YOU NO SENSE OF DECENCY?

PLEASE enlighten me as to which part of this article is a lie...  

Substandard Housing: It's the weekly rental blues
MICHAEL OVERALL World Staff Writer
09/26/2004

Editor's Note: The TOWERVIEW Apartments offers
by-the-week rent with few questions asked. The
building stands in the future shadow of the planned $183 million downtown arena. Tulsa World reporter Michael Overall spent two weeks in July living in the building. This is the first of three stories on his experiences there. The room looks dark even with the blinds open and the afternoon sun blazing outside. The light, apparently, is too intimidated to come in.

Cobwebs are hanging from the corners. Paint is
chipping off the ceiling. The walls have holes in them, and there's enough dust on the floor to leave footprints.

When the apartment manager opens a window, the air still doesn't move, the July heat making both of us sweat through our T-shirts.

"This isn't my nicest unit," he says.

He doesn't like the fake wood paneling.

"I've got one upstairs that's been painted."

But it's occupied.

"Maybe if you decide to stay long enough, it'll come open."

This apartment, the manager says, is one of the
smaller units, but not the smallest. There's a tiny kitchen in one corner, barely big enough for a stove, a sink and a wooden spice rack, just in case a gourmet moves in. Inside a cabinet, an old box of Rice Krispies has fallen on its side, spilling out and attracting a swarm of roaches.

The refrigerator is in the living room, warm inside and empty except for some dead bugs. And there's an old couch next to a beat-up chair, with a hole in it and the stuffing coming out.

"Well, this is it," the manager says. "What do you think?"

Down the hallway in the manager's office, no questions are asked. No credit checks. No references. All he needs is $125 for the first week. He'll take cash, but he would prefer a money order.

"Here's the key," he says. "Give it back when you move out. Some people don't do that."

With me in Room 209 now, out of almost 40 units in the building, the manager has only one apartment left empty. And there's already a girl waiting in his office to ask about it.

She doesn't look old enough to vote. In fact, not old enough to see R-rated movies.

"I don't have my ID with me," she tells the manager.  She says her name is Rachel, but maybe it isn't.

She sits with her feet in the chair, hugging her knees close to her chest and twirling a strand of long blond hair around her finger.

Her T-shirt says "Grrl Power" and her blue jeans came from Abercrombie & Fitch. The watch on her wrist must have cost a week's rent, and she didn't even have the sense to take it off before coming into a place like this.

I want to call her parents. I want to call my parents.  She can have my old room.

"I need a place to stay," she tells the manager. "You know, for like a few weeks."

So she follows him to the second floor, climbing the stairs with her trendy suede sneakers, leaving footprints in the dust.

First impressions:
It sounds like sandpaper or like the noise a dog makes when it's scratching at the door, wanting out side. It gets louder, then softer. Stops, then starts again.  But where it's coming from, I can't tell.  Under the chair. Outside the window. Behind the stove.  In the closet. I look everywhere, and then I glance
into the bathroom.

In the darkness, the black and white tile appears to be rippling, as if the floor is made of water with little waves sloshing across the surface.

With a light on, the pool of water turns into a solid layer of bugs. There's a dog pile of insects --crawling under, over and around each other in a sickening, undulating clump. It's a mad frenzy, a thousand cockroaches rioting in front of my toilet.

I step away for only a minute, a mere 60 seconds, just long enough to unzip a duffel bag, fumble around for a camera and rush back to the bathroom door.

And they're gone. Every single one of them.  Vanished, with nothing but a normal, empty floor.

A sort of housewarming:
On Saturday night, a few friends are nice enough to drop in for a little party. No gifts.  No cake or ice cream. Just a few drinks and the chance to see inside of a place they've heard about for a long time.  The TOWERVIEW Apartments is rather famous in downtown Tulsa. People might not recognize the name, but they
know what you mean when you talk about that old
apartment building near Third Street and Cheyenne Avenue.

By this time next year, the Vision 2025 arena will be under construction less than a block away. From my back window, you can see the Denver Grill and a Citgo gas station -- both to be torn down soon to make way for the new "events center."

In the future, when people come downtown for a
concert, the TOWERVIEW is going to be part of the scenery. That's why people are talking about it. And that's why my friends are curious.

They park around the corner. They take off their
jewelry. And they hustle down the hallway until the apartment door is securely locked and bolted.

The tour doesn't take long. This apartment is just big enough for two sitting areas, one immediately on your left as you come in the door, the other catty-corner across the room, near the back window.

In between, an old-fashioned Murphy bed folds down out of the wall, where a previous tenant left dirty laundry behind the headboard.

"Are you going to sleep in it?" my friends want to know.

Of course not. The mattress is stained and smells like urine. I'll be sleeping on a cot.

Around the corner in the bathroom, one friend turns on the faucet in the bathtub, and we're surprised to find plenty of hot water. But it comes out orange.

"That's weird," my friend says. "Very weird." She recommends not taking a shower for the next week.

Before long, in the living room, everybody seems to be ready to leave. But I want them to stay.  Please. Let's talk about the weather or world peace or whatever comes to mind.

"Have a seat," I tell them. But where?

Just touching the couch is enough to send up a plume of dust, and it doesn't take long to realize the seat cushions are covered with fleas.

The four of us end up squishing together on the coffee table, hoping the old wooden legs don't break under the weight. And it becomes a little game to describe what this apartments smells like.

Spoiled cabbage and cigarettes.

Rotten potatoes and cheap bourbon.

Turned milk and moldy cheese.

"Never mind," I tell them. Nothing can describe it.


When you're not having fun:
For people on the outside, time is skipping along like
always. But for me -- sweating in the July heat
without an air conditioner and sitting in a folding
lawn chair because the couch has fleas -- the minutes are creeping forward like continental drift.
At 7:05, I open a magazine and I read every article, even the long, boring ones. And I examine every chart and look at every photo, then I flip the pages back and read some of the articles a second time. And when I put the magazine down, the clock says 7:15.

Time simply slows down here. The same things keep happening over and over, like the day is stuck on a treadmill, churning past the same events, again and again. A roach crawls across my lap and I flick it away. Then another roach crawls across my lap. And another one.

A homeless guy knocks on the door to beg for a
cigarette. Then another homeless guy. And another.

The bugs. The graffiti. The rickety floor. The vague sense of danger every time I walk out the door, like maybe somebody's going to pull a knife and steal my wallet. That's the easy part of living here.

It's the monotony that gets to you. The dreary
sameness of everyday life -- that's the real ordeal.  I'm tired of stepping on mouse droppings. Tired of swatting flies. Tired of staying awake all night because I can't stop itching.

And the first week isn't even half over yet.

Opportunity knocks:
During the day, in the parking lot next door to the TOWERVIEW, there's a Porsche and a couple of Mercedes, along with a bunch of Hondas and Toyotas. At 5 o'clock, the office workers come and drive away,
leaving the lot mostly empty by 6. It stays that way until sunset, when the building casts a long shadow across the asphalt, and other cars begin to arrive -- this time beat-up Chevys and old Pontiacs. They don't all come at once, and none of them stay long, so the parking lot never looks full, but it often seems busy.

When people get out of the cars, they look up and yell at an open window on the second or third floor. Then somebody goes down to meet them in the parking lot.

They talk. They walk back and forth. And if you watch carefully, you can catch a glimpse of small packages being exchanged -- subtly, quickly, always in a way that makes you wonder whether you really saw anything.

It's impossible to say exactly what's happening out there. You can have your suspicions. You can have your intuitions. But you can't really say for sure. And maybe it's best not to know.

At one point tonight, just as the last shred of
daylight is fading away, one guy in particular catches my attention -- not because he is doing anything out of the ordinary, but because he's not doing anything at all. He's just standing there, hands in his pockets, eyes unblinking, looking straight ahead. He's looking, it seems, right at me.

So I lower the window and close the blinds. But now it's too quiet in here. Eerily quiet, because it's not really quiet at all.

Little feet are pattering back and forth inside the walls. Something keeps rustling behind the couch. The ceiling is creaking. And that scratchy noise is coming from the bathroom again.

Then there's a knock at the door -- so sudden it makes me jump and almost tip over the chair.

Whoever it is, he's not the same guy who was standing outside the window a few minutes ago. But he still makes an intimidating figure -- well over 6 feet tall, with a shaved head and dressed top to bottom in the powder blue of North Carolina.

He spots my eyeball looking at him through the
peephole.

"Hey, man," he says through the door. "You need an air conditioner?"

As a matter of fact, an air conditioner sounds
tempting. It was over 90 degrees today, and my room doesn't even have a fan. Only a couple of windows can be opened, and one of them is right above the building's Dumpster. The breeze isn't worth the stench.

So the guy convinces me to follow him outside to his car, a 1980-something clunker with bullet holes in the passenger door. The air conditioner is in the trunk, along with an assortment of VCRs and car stereos.

"It's brand-new," he says. The control panel is cracked, the air vents look dusty, and the power cord appears to be attached with a worn-out piece of duct tape.

"I'll take 30 bucks for it," he says. "And I'll even carry it inside for you."

On second thought -- thanks, but no thanks.

"Twenty bucks," he says. "Come on, that's a great
deal."

But really, the heat isn't so bad.

"Fifteen. And that's my final offer."

That's very nice. Really. But no.

"OK," he says. "But you're going to regret this."

Regret it? Why? Because this guy doesn't take no for an answer?

"Look, man, I'm just saying that it's going to get worse. You know what I mean?"

Not really. What's going to get worse? The heat? In a way, not having an air conditioner seems like a blessing, because the sticky humidity makes it impossible to sleep at night. And not sleeping at night makes it impossible to wake up in the morning with a mouse in the bed.

Back inside, the room still seems eerily quiet. Little feet pattering, something rustling, that scratchy sandpaper noise is still coming from the bathroom.

Somehow, through all the creepiness, the guy's voice seems to echo off the grimy walls.

"It's going to get worse."

The heat. The roaches. The mice. The strange
characters peeking through the window at night. It's all going to get worse.

And maybe he was right.

"You're going to regret this."

Around midnight, somebody else knocks at the door. But
this time, the door stays locked.

I lived in an SRO for about 6 weeks... in a seedy area on the northside of Chicago... the area around the SRO was bad but the hotel was well-regulated by the city...... if it wasn't up to code, THE CHICAGO HEALTH DEPT WOULD SHUT IT DOWN IN A HEARTBEAT.