Towerview Apartments

[MichaelC]

Part of the problem is that I seem to be seeing this from almost exclusively the City's POV.

Even if you eliminate the convention space, both the Doubletree and Crowne Plaza are a block or more in size, with their parking garages.  It would be asking something atypical, to require the hotel be built on half of a block.

But those are good points.  There is a "bet" in all of this, that I wouldn't want to take if I were the City.  But, I also have to agree with you.  Everything that has been said so far, makes sense.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

Part of the problem is that I seem to be seeing this from almost exclusively the City's POV.

Even if you eliminate the convention space, both the Doubletree and Crowne Plaza are a block or more in size, with their parking garages.  It would be asking something atypical, to require the hotel be built on half of a block.

But those are good points.  There is a "bet" in all of this, that I wouldn't want to take if I were the City.  But, I also have to agree with you.  Everything that has been said so far, makes sense.

Just for sake of argument -- the Ramada Inn (or whatever it is this month) at 7th & Boulder only occupies 1/4 of a square block.

I'm no architect, but it would seem entirely feasible to build a hotel with the parking on the lower floors and the rooms above on a roughly 2/3 square block footprint - especially with a full 1 block by 1/2 block section. I've stayed at the downtown Doubletree in Kansas City and that's basically their setup.

Just speculating.

Again, the whole point is to get creative to see if a hotel can be accommodated without having to use taxpayer money normally earmarked for infrastructure to buy the Towerview out from an owner who claims to want to rehab the building. I don't ever see the Mayor's Office coming up with anything resembling creative, win-win plans.

[MichaelC]

I agree that it can be done.  

The City could require that in order to be eligible for the TDA property on the West side of the block, a hotel would have to build its parking underground.

[pmcalk]

I have written the following to the Mayor, with copies to the council; for those interested, I would encourage you to write as wll.

quote:Dear Mayor LaFortune,

I am writing in regard to the proposed third penny sales tax initiative that you have submitted to the City Council for an upcoming vote.  I applaud your leadership, and your willingness to listen to the voters in the community prior to compiling the various projects addressed in the tax initiative.  

Most of the projects are clearly devoted to needed infrastructure and similar projects.  However, I find one project neither needed nor prudent.  I am referring to the inclusion of money for downtown development—specifically that money devoted to the purchase of private property with the intent of building a new hotel downtown.  My understanding from the local paper is that the City is interested in acquiring the Towerview Apartment building, the 1922 building that was recently shut down because of code violations.  According to the paper, the owner of that building is interested in converting to apartments into high-end lofts.

I object to the use of public money for the conversion of this building to a hotel for several reasons.  First, I see no reason why public money needs to be used.  Hotel companies are multi-million dollar industries that are perfectly capable of negotiating deals in their best interest without the help of city governments.  If a hotel chain is truly interested in building in Tulsa, I fail to see why spending public money is necessary.  Second, I don't believe that the space on which that building sits is imperative to the building of a hotel.  Much of that block—almost 2/3—is a surface lot already owned by the Tulsa Development Authority.  Why is that not sufficient space to build a hotel?  Finally, I believe that tearing down yet another old building in Tulsa is counter-productive, especially when someone has expressed an interest in rehabilitating it.  True, the owner may not be sincere; yet, the building could be turned into a profitable venture by someone.  Rehabilitating the Towerview and building a hotel downtown would be a win-win situation for all involved, including the residents of Tulsa.  Tulsa has lost so many of its small and mid-sized historic buildings; tearing down yet another at the public's expense without justification makes no sense.

Tulsa relies heavily on its regressive sales tax.  Thus, our politicians must take a strong leadership role to ensure that only those projects truly needed are included.  To ask those who have limited means to fund this venture shows poor vision.  That money could be used to provide needed infrastructure; it could be used to improve the walkways between the existing hotels and the Arena, encouraging visitors to experience more of downtown Tulsa; it could even be used to help rehabilitate the Mayo, a truly unique Tulsa hotel.  But to simply use the money to take private property from one person, and give to another, ensuring the destruction of an old building, as well as another potential source of tax revenue, is bad policy.

Again, I do support the remainder of the third penny tax initiative, including the remainder of the money devoted to downtown development in the Brady District.

[RecycleMichael]

Good letter Pmcalk.

I appreciate that you took the time to state your comments in writing and addressed them to the Mayor and Council.

Many people just want to complain, thinking that their saying it to others in person or a forum is enough. Writing polite letters does matter and including all the people who could make a difference counts as well.

I also think it is important to include alternatives like funding the Mayo helps.

[carltonplace]

My letter is out:

Mayor Lafortune,

I would like to thank you for your continued dedication to the City of Tulsa and its development. As a lifelong resident of Tulsa I can't remember a time that held as much excitement for the future, or as many projects proposed or underway. Of particular interest to me are the Pearl District/6th St infill plan, River development, the arena, and other downtown projects. I envision a time in the not to distant future, where our downtown will be a dense, walkable, livable environment that all Tulsans will be proud to inhabit and show off to visitors. This vision is of a unique Tulsa, not a copy of some other city (though we might borrow from successful models) and it is imperative that we do not make the mistakes that some other cities have made.

It is for this reason that I've decided to write to you. In your proposed third penny sales tax package there is a provision for the purchase and removal of the Towerview apartment building located in downtown on Cheyenne. The building was erected in 1922 and in my opinion is a prime candidate for rehabilitation. The Towerview is an example of the type of building that we need more of in our downtown and is a sad reminder of the ones like it that have been lost. I do not think this historic building should be razed, nor should tax dollars be used to take it from its owner (who claims to have a plan for improvement) to give it to a hotel chain. There is plenty of room on this site for both to exist.

I also hold the opinion that the new arena should possess enough incentive to attract major business to the area, and am not convinced that Tulsa would need to sweeten the deal. If we are to put any money into a hotel in the downtown area, I'd rather spend it on the Mayo.

Again, thank you for your time and dedication.

[RecycleMichael]

Good letter, Carlton the Doorman.

You wrote personal feelings and gave solid reasons for your opinions.

I believe that letters matter and I encourage others to state their opinions on paper and then send to decision makers.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by carltonplace

My letter is out:

Mayor Lafortune,

I would like to thank you for your continued dedication to the City of Tulsa and its development. As a lifelong resident of Tulsa I can't remember a time that held as much excitement for the future, or as many projects proposed or underway. Of particular interest to me are the Pearl District/6th St infill plan, River development, the arena, and other downtown projects. I envision a time in the not to distant future, where our downtown will be a dense, walkable, livable environment that all Tulsans will be proud to inhabit and show off to visitors. This vision is of a unique Tulsa, not a copy of some other city (though we might borrow from successful models) and it is imperative that we do not make the mistakes that some other cities have made.

It is for this reason that I've decided to write to you. In your proposed third penny sales tax package there is a provision for the purchase and removal of the Towerview apartment building located in downtown on Cheyenne. The building was erected in 1922 and in my opinion is a prime candidate for rehabilitation. The Towerview is an example of the type of building that we need more of in our downtown and is a sad reminder of the ones like it that have been lost. I do not think this historic building should be razed, nor should tax dollars be used to take it from its owner (who claims to have a plan for improvement) to give it to a hotel chain. There is plenty of room on this site for both to exist.

I also hold the opinion that the new arena should possess enough incentive to attract major business to the area, and am not convinced that Tulsa would need to sweeten the deal. If we are to put any money into a hotel in the downtown area, I'd rather spend it on the Mayo.

Again, thank you for your time and dedication.

Great letter--much less wordy than mine (which is probably more effective).

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

I'm going to shift gears a bit, just to put into perspective whether an entire square block is needed for a hotel.

The Bank of America Center on the NE corner of 6th & Boulder was the tallest building in Oklahoma when it opened in the early 60s.



The lower fifth the building -- the white "base" portion -- is a parking garage. The smoked glass upper floors are the offices. There is a bank lobby on the ground floor and the Summit Club on  the top floor. Lots going on there.

The entire building footprint is 1/4 of the block. It doesn't even encroach on the alley running north/south.

TDA owns about 2/3 of the square block where the Towerview is located, including the half-block deep by full-block long portion that fronts the arena site... but that's not enough land for a hotel? Please.

There's plenty of existing land just sitting there as surface parking for a hotel site.

Just to correct/revise your post, this building was constructed in 1967 (not the early 1960s)  as the original home of 4th National Bank, a local Tulsa bank.  You are correct, it was the tallest building in the state when constructed.  I remember going on a tour of the building under construction in 1967 with my cub scout troup.  The building had been topped out, and they took us up to the top floor, still a steel frame skeleton with wooden walkways.  (I am sure this would be a no-no today, due to the liability and danger issues, but is sure was cool to a 10 year old at the time.)  I know my comments really have nothing to do with the topic at hand, but just wanted to correct the historical facts.  It is a good use of the land area and does not overpower the area or surrounding structures.  It is also a wonderful classic mid-twentieth century design with the vertical glass slab over the horizontal base.  Looks as modern and up to date today as it did in 1967.

[MichaelC]

Nice letters.  Did you folks send them to the MAC@cityoftulsa.org or was there another address?

dist1@tulsacouncil.org
dist2@tulsacouncil.org
dist3@tulsacouncil.org
dist4@tulsacouncil.org
dist5@tulsacouncil.org
dist6@tulsacouncil.org
dist7@tulsacouncil.org
dist8@tulsacouncil.org
dist9@tulsacouncil.org

[carltonplace]

These are the addresses I used.

[MichaelC]

Thanks carltonplace,

The timing on these letters is probably good.  The World mentioned the Mayo being reviewed for Vision 2025 money.  

http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=060115_Ne_A1_Build58000

[Rico]

 Regardless of your Political views of Councilman Medlock; something he had placed on the coming weeks Council UED Meeting Agenda may help this, as well as the shaping of Downtown in the coming year.

Here is an audio of the proposal placing a one year moratorium on the use of "Eminent Domain" .

audio courtesy of Tulsa Topics

AUDIO

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

 Regardless of your Political views of Councilman Medlock; something he had placed on the coming weeks Council UED Meeting Agenda may help this, as well as the shaping of Downtown in the coming year.

Here is an audio of the proposal placing a one year moratorium on the use of "Eminent Domain" .

audio courtesy of Tulsa Topics

AUDIO

I am not sure it will help, since I would imagine the city could reach an agreement before eminent domain were necessary.  My problems is the allotment of limited tax payer funds to purchase private property from one person to sell to another.

There are many other projects downtown that could use that 3 million.  Why not fund those areas where there is no private economic motivation, like the Centennial walk?

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by Rico

 Regardless of your Political views of Councilman Medlock; something he had placed on the coming weeks Council UED Meeting Agenda may help this, as well as the shaping of Downtown in the coming year.

Here is an audio of the proposal placing a one year moratorium on the use of "Eminent Domain" .

audio courtesy of Tulsa Topics

AUDIO

I am not sure it will help, since I would imagine the city could reach an agreement before eminent domain were necessary.

Tell me; if someone were trying to buy your home and at some point you knew that if a price could not be agreed upon they would pull out a trump card and take it anyway would this place you at a slight disadvantage.?

Furthermore; if this moratorium had been called for by the Mayor, when the nine wise ones made it the law, you would not have had Big Bob Attorney shopping for someone to tell him legally how the County could use E.M. to acquire City land for the IVI Bridge.



My problems is the allotment of limited tax payer funds to purchase private property from one person to sell to another.

There are many other projects downtown that could use that 3 million.  Why not fund those areas where there is no private economic motivation, like the Centennial walk?

On this I agree. The problem with Tax Packages, the public rarely reads the fine print, they are voted in on hear say rather than facts.