Baseball stadium for downtown?

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by sportyart

Obviously you have never been to west texas. [}:)]

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

I don't understand the desire for a new baseball facility for Tulsa.  

I think sgrizzle is right on target with his reply to you. And if we are going to get our downtown back going we need to bring venues like this downtown, along with the arts and etc.

I heard last week that the Mayors office is looking into a way to move the homeless out into another area, just like Minneapolis had to do in order to make their downtown successful. We really have a chance at making our downtown as nice as Minneapolis, this may be our only chance .

[YoungTulsan]

Lets move the homeless to 91st and Yale!

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

Lets move the homeless to 91st and Yale!

Second that! Then lets move 56th street North to Jenks.[]

[sauerkraut]

Downtown is the worst place for any statium, traffic there is worse enough as it is yet alone adding thousands of more cars to the cramped area. They need to Build the BallPark out in the open away from congested areas. Why do they always want to build ball parks in the most congested and cramped parts of a city? During ball games the streets will be choked solid with cars, other people will not able to get out or go anyplace. Tulsa has such long red lights as it is backing up traffic even more. Build the park in SandSprings

[tulsa1603]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Downtown is the worst place for any statium, traffic there is worse enough as it is yet alone adding thousands of more cars to the cramped area. They need to Build the BallPark out in the open away from congested areas. Why do they always want to build ball parks in the most congested and cramped parts of a city? During ball games the streets will be choked solid with cars, other people will not able to get out or go anyplace. Tulsa has such long red lights as it is backing up traffic even more. Build the park in SandSprings

Have you driven in downtown Tulsa lately?  IT probably has the least congestion of any part of Tulsa.  

ONe problem I do have with this equation is taking something from one part of town where it functions just fine, and moving it to another part as an experiment.  There is no guarantee that it will bring life downtown - look at 15th and Yale, there are few restaurants within a mile of there, there are no bars that I'd step foot in...  What makes us think putting it downtown will make these things magically happen?

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by tulsa1603

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Downtown is the worst place for any statium, traffic there is worse enough as it is yet alone adding thousands of more cars to the cramped area. They need to Build the BallPark out in the open away from congested areas. Why do they always want to build ball parks in the most congested and cramped parts of a city? During ball games the streets will be choked solid with cars, other people will not able to get out or go anyplace. Tulsa has such long red lights as it is backing up traffic even more. Build the park in SandSprings

Have you driven in downtown Tulsa lately?  IT probably has the least congestion of any part of Tulsa.  

ONe problem I do have with this equation is taking something from one part of town where it functions just fine, and moving it to another part as an experiment.  There is no guarantee that it will bring life downtown - look at 15th and Yale, there are few restaurants within a mile of there, there are no bars that I'd step foot in...  What makes us think putting it downtown will make these things magically happen?

Why not put the ball park out in a rural area? A place that has room and room to grow in the future and can handle the traffic and space for a parking big lot? With a downtown ball park you'll have heavy traffic on narrow city streets & roads not designed for it - 15th street is not exactly made to move thousands of cars, Peoria, Lewis, Harvard, 21st street they will all be traffic choked on days of a ball game. Residents will not be able to get out for shopping. Anything downtown will have limeted space to grow and be a tight fit

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Downtown is the worst place for any statium, traffic there is worse enough as it is yet alone adding thousands of more cars to the cramped area. They need to Build the BallPark out in the open away from congested areas. Why do they always want to build ball parks in the most congested and cramped parts of a city? During ball games the streets will be choked solid with cars, other people will not able to get out or go anyplace. Tulsa has such long red lights as it is backing up traffic even more. Build the park in SandSprings

Downtown stadiums help support the unique urban identity of cities.  People walk a long way to stadiums, either from a large suburban sea of concrete parking lot, or from a downtown garage.  If you build a stadium downtown, you provide support for retail/restaurant business around the stadium, due to the fact that people will be walking past city blocks instead of just parking spaces.  Why build out in the country and further exhaust our infrastructure when we could have a stadium downtown that would add value back to an already existing area, thus securing all the rest of the city's downtown investments. The downtown skyline would be a great backdrop for college games and tournaments, adding much needed PR for the Tulsa region.

[TheTed]

Building a new stadium anywhere but downtown would be a mistake.

Many, many minor league towns have recently moved from drab, placeless stadiums in the middle of parking lots to beautiful downtown stadiums. I've visited quite a few of these ballparks. Why would we attempt to ignore a winning formula to build another stadium in the middle of a giant parking lot?

Downtown stadiums have played major roles in downtown revitalization in cities all over the country.

I live and work downtown. I've been here for a year. The next time I see downtown choked with traffic will be the first time. Downtown streets are seemingly engineered for many times more traffic than needed. Boulder goes down to one lane near fourth st and that doesn't seem to cause any type of traffic jam.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

quote:Originally posted by tulsa1603

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Downtown is the worst place for any statium, traffic there is worse enough as it is yet alone adding thousands of more cars to the cramped area. They need to Build the BallPark out in the open away from congested areas. Why do they always want to build ball parks in the most congested and cramped parts of a city? During ball games the streets will be choked solid with cars, other people will not able to get out or go anyplace. Tulsa has such long red lights as it is backing up traffic even more. Build the park in SandSprings

Have you driven in downtown Tulsa lately?  IT probably has the least congestion of any part of Tulsa.  

ONe problem I do have with this equation is taking something from one part of town where it functions just fine, and moving it to another part as an experiment.  There is no guarantee that it will bring life downtown - look at 15th and Yale, there are few restaurants within a mile of there, there are no bars that I'd step foot in...  What makes us think putting it downtown will make these things magically happen?

Why not put the ball park out in a rural area? A place that has room and room to grow in the future and can handle the traffic and space for a parking big lot? With a downtown ball park you'll have heavy traffic on narrow city streets & roads not designed for it - 15th street is not exactly made to move thousands of cars, Peoria, Lewis, Harvard, 21st street they will all be traffic choked on days of a ball game. Residents will not be able to get out for shopping. Anything downtown will have limeted space to grow and be a tight fit

None of those streets are downtown, and what you actually have described is the current location of the stadium

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Why not put the ball park out in a rural area? A place that has room and room to grow in the future and can handle the traffic and space for a parking big lot? With a downtown ball park you'll have heavy traffic on narrow city streets & roads not designed for it - 15th street is not exactly made to move thousands of cars, Peoria, Lewis, Harvard, 21st street they will all be traffic choked on days of a ball game. Residents will not be able to get out for shopping. Anything downtown will have limeted space to grow and be a tight fit

So you described it's location so exact you're pretty much a human GPS.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

quote:Originally posted by tulsa1603

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

Downtown is the worst place for any statium, traffic there is worse enough as it is yet alone adding thousands of more cars to the cramped area. They need to Build the BallPark out in the open away from congested areas. Why do they always want to build ball parks in the most congested and cramped parts of a city? During ball games the streets will be choked solid with cars, other people will not able to get out or go anyplace. Tulsa has such long red lights as it is backing up traffic even more. Build the park in SandSprings

Have you driven in downtown Tulsa lately?  IT probably has the least congestion of any part of Tulsa.  

ONe problem I do have with this equation is taking something from one part of town where it functions just fine, and moving it to another part as an experiment.  There is no guarantee that it will bring life downtown - look at 15th and Yale, there are few restaurants within a mile of there, there are no bars that I'd step foot in...  What makes us think putting it downtown will make these things magically happen?

Why not put the ball park out in a rural area? A place that has room and room to grow in the future and can handle the traffic and space for a parking big lot? With a downtown ball park you'll have heavy traffic on narrow city streets & roads not designed for it - 15th street is not exactly made to move thousands of cars, Peoria, Lewis, Harvard, 21st street they will all be traffic choked on days of a ball game. Residents will not be able to get out for shopping. Anything downtown will have limeted space to grow and be a tight fit

It sounds as though you've never been in downtown Tulsa (and perhaps never been to a baseball stadium).  ;-)

[USRufnex]

Just pointing out that the initial post was bumped from 3/13/06... there were quite a few posts from that initial discussion that were  deleted...

Last fall, we all assumed the ballpark was going to simply replace the soccer stadium initially proposed by Global Development...

Now this?

quote:Tulsa's Director of Economic Development, Don Himelfarb, is working with the Drillers on a possible move. They're considering several locations downtown and one spot on the river, but won't yet say exactly where.  "They're coming either adjacent to downtown or downtown itself."

The owner of the Drillers told FOX23 News he would prefer to move the team to a downtown location, something city officials are excited about.

Himelfarb says, "It's just going to bring alive nightlife and restaurants and other entertainment venues. It's the perfect prescription for bringing downtown alive."

---------------------------------------------

And the Drillers owner says he would love to have the new stadium built by 2010, but he's not yet sure who's going to pay for it.

Interesting to hear the Drillers' are "not yet sure who's going to pay for it," since we all assumed the ballpark was going to be part of a TIF district financed "anchor" for a mixed-use development.

Sales taxes are just not going to fly for the ballpark alone (Driller Park has been renovated and is not falling apart), or at the very least, they'd have to be tied to the current river proposal somehow...

And when Don Himelfarb says things like, "It's just going to bring alive nightlife and restaurants and other entertainment venues. It's the perfect prescription for bringing downtown alive," methinks he exagerates... and I'd think exactly the same way if he said this about a soccer/football stadium...

Bricktown gets a boost on event days from both the AT&T ballpark and the Ford Center... but Bricktown pre-dates all the new downtown stuff in OKC... build the ballpark in the wrong spot in downtown Tulsa and it simply won't do much of anything-- people will go to the game, buy Cinemark-priced concessions and then drive straight home... just like they do at the fairgrounds now... and once the stadium's newness wears off...?

Drillers' owner Chuck Lamson once said that a new downtown ballpark would double attendance.  I'm not sure whether attendance would actually double or not... but the more important point is that I believe a new ballpark would effectively double revenue for the Drillers for at least 3-5 years... the Drillers shouldn't have to resort to as many free tickets/seat upgrades for those years and a portion of the extra $$$ the Drillers would realize could be used to help pay for the stadium rather than the increase in salary and travel expenses for a move to triple-A.

BTW, Driller Park isn't the oldest stadium in the Texas League... that honor goes to Wichita's Lawrence-Dumont Stadium, built in 1934 through the WPA...

The two best examples of new stadiums for Texas league teams would be the brand new one in North Little Rock across from their downtown that replaced the circa 1932 Ray Winder Field... http://www.baseballamerica.com/today/minors/050630bizbeat.html

quote:The team and local leaders had been at an impasse over how much the Travelers would contribute to pay off the ballpark's construction bonds. The parties reached an agreement that called for a 20-year lease with successive five-year renewal options. The Travelers will use gate receipts, concessions, advertising and luxury seat revenue to operate the club and stadium and make minor capital improvements. After those expenses, the Travelers and North Little Rock will split remaining revenue.

The new ballpark would be part of a 22-acre development with condominiums, restaurants, shops and offices. The ballpark would sit on 11.6 acres, purchased for $5.8 million by Little Rock financier Warren Stephens last summer. Stephens donated the land in exchange for naming rights for the ballpark.

Drawings show the ballpark next to the Broadway Bridge spanning the Arkansas River between North Little Rock and Little Rock, the state capitol. The 7,000-seat ballpark, with luxury boxes and an outfield berm, would open on a view of the Little Rock skyline.

------------------------------------------------

The Travelers have played in 6,083-seat Ray Winder Field since it opened in 1932, but the ballpark has long been in need of major improvements and has been granted waivers by Major League Baseball to allow the team to keep playing there.

... and the new privately funded ballpark in downtown Springfield, MO...
http://www.ballparkreviews.com/springmo/springmo.htm

[Wrinkle]

Himelfarb has been quoted as saying the old current Public Works yard south of 23rd and Jackson will be "more recreational than commercial". Someone else said he meant a ballpark.

If there's a master plan laying around, I'd sure like to see it.

[sportyart]

quote:
P.J. Lassek World Staff Writer
Tulsa World

City officials are eyeing sites for a new Drillers Stadium downtown or on the west bank of the Arkansas River.

But the availability of those sites depends heavily on whether the City Council approves a proposed consolidation plan to move City Hall into One Technology Center.

"The move will provide us development opportunities we don't currently have," Economic Development Director Don Himelfarb said about the ability to assemble land for a ballpark site.

Drillers owner Chuck Lamson confirmed he has been talking to Himelfarb and Mayor Kathy Taylor about relocating to downtown or the west bank of the Arkansas River south of the 21st Street Bridge.

"My preference would be to move to the central business district downtown because that is a proven area in terms of what has been done in many cities the size of Tulsa," Lamson said.

Lamson said those cities, including Oklahoma City, have seen how investing in a downtown stadium can spur private investments, "creating a vibrant environment."

Several city-owned properties would be freed up for redevelopment through Taylor's City Hall consolidation plan, which would move 1,000 employees in 14 departments into One Technology Center.

The council is set to vote July 12 on whether to purchase the 15-story building at First Street and Cincinnati Avenue.

Although councilors continue to have questions about the risks of the purchase, nearly all agree that one positive side effect of the move is that it would free up city-owned land.

Himelfarb will not reveal all the potential sites downtown where a stadium for the Double-A minor-league baseball team could be located because he wants to avoid real estate speculation. But he said that one potential site is the Hartford Building at 110 S. Greenwood Ave., which is owned by the Tulsa Development Authority and houses city employees who would be moved in the consolidation.

"That site does have issues, as any downtown site will have, because you need 11 acres for the stadium," he said.

First and Second streets -- connectors to Interstate 244 -- cut through the property.

Officials also have talked about locating the stadium near the BOK Center, which would follow a model other cities have successfully used to spur revitalization.

Lamson said he wants it clear that although he favors a downtown location, he "would never rule out any opportunity on the west bank, with the festival park and a great view of downtown."

If the consolidation move is approved, the Public Works facility on the west bank at 23rd Street and Jackson Avenue would be vacated.

The space for sand and salt storage, trucks, other heavy equipment and some staff would move to a site in north Tulsa, while the remaining staff would go to One Technology Center, the council has been told.

A recently proposed Tulsa County river tax, if put to a vote, is expected to include funds to acquire land on the west bank, including sites between 11th and 21st streets for river development, which could be complemented by a stadium located to the south, officials say.

Lamson said his only concern about a river site is traffic flow. He said downtown can easily handle the traffic produced from a crowd of 10,000. He said he is not so sure about the site near the 21st Street Bridge.

"Revitalizing the downtown and the river plans are very exciting. We would love to be a part of it one way or another," Lamson said.

The Drillers' lease with the Tulsa County Public Facilities Authority for the site at the fairgrounds expires in 2009, Lamson said.

He also said there are discussions with Tulsa County officials about a year-to-year lease if the Drillers franchise could not transition into a new ballpark by 2010.

Lamson noted that the current stadium is still usable.

"As a Tulsan, I want Tulsa to be a successful city, not only for quality-of-life issues for my family, but for the business community," he said.

A plan announced in August proposed that Global Development Partners of Washington, D.C., purchase property in east downtown, north of Home Depot, to create a mixed-use, urban environment that would include a baseball stadium.

But that plan appears to no longer include the stadium, since property the developers had hoped to acquire for the stadium site is not available.

Possible site locations?: