Once again victimized by TPD

[Relax]

I'm sure it isn't so, but this looks like there are only 31 police cars watching the entire city. I guess some are writing tickets which may not be listed as an "active call." I would guess traffic accidents would be an active call or a call holding - so where are the rest of the cars and what were they doing?

quote:Originally posted by MH2010
...Right now this is the call load on a Sunday.

Sunday 04/23/06 7:51pm
UDE  9 active calls, 1 call holding
UDSW 10 active calls, 13 calls holding
UDN 12 active calls, 4 calls holding...

[Kiah]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

One that is still up ,as far as I can tell, are the "Excecutive Order Contracts" that the previous fellow put in play..

Perhaps this is just a matter of following cancellation procedures for the contracts..

There is mucho green dinero$$ in those contracts.....[/navy][/size=2][]

There's nothing nefarious about the Mayor administering contracts (in the context of the budget and Council appropriations).  It's his/her Charter responsibility . . . .

quote: Artile III

SECTION 1.4 EXECUTIVE AND ADMINISTRATIVE POWERS AND DUTIES. The Mayor shall be the chief executive and administrative officer of the city and shall:

D. Expend as provided by law the funds of the city in accord with the adopted operating and capital budgets of the city;

H. Establish standards of administration and coordinate all administrative services;

J. Administer and enforce the terms and conditions of all contracts;

K. Collect, deposit, invest, and maintain accounts of all revenues, fines, licenses, fees, and funds of the city;

L. Establish and supervise a system of general and cost accounting and maintain inventories of the property of the city.

M. Purchase equipment, materials, supplies, and services and construct, operate, maintain, and repair public improvements, buildings, and facilities;

N. Establish, construct, and maintain streets, sidewalks, alleys, public ways, waterworks, sanitary sewers, sewage disposal systems, storm sewers, storm water drainage systems, waterports, airports, solid waste management systems, transportation systems, and other public improvements and facilities;  

[Wilbur]

I'm sure it isn't so, but this looks like there are only 31 police cars watching the entire city. I guess some are writing tickets which may not be listed as an "active call." I would guess traffic accidents would be an active call or a call holding - so where are the rest of the cars and what were they doing?

You are assuming each call only takes one officer/car/person, which is rarely so.  For instance, the shooting over the weekend near 12th and Erie, I'm sure, took multiple officers, as they were seaching for both victims and suspects.

Some calls only take one officer, such as most wrecks, a report call, or something similar.

Each of the three shifts have what are called 'minimum manning levels'.  I think you would be surprised how low that number actually is.

And we keep pouncing on officers wasting their time writing tickets.  When more people are injured and we spend more money on property damage then all other crimes combined 10 fold, will we realize the police can't ignore people who violate traffic laws.  Every single wreck was preceeded by someone violating a traffic law.

[NellieBly]

I am trying to picture a huge Storey wrecker "hooking up" to a little scooter and pulling it up onto the back of the flatbed and then driving it down to the garage. Ridiculous.

[Relax]

The question still stands - how many cars are on at the time specified earlier and where were they and what were they doing.

I'm not beating up anyone for writing tickets or anything else. I am simply trying to understand the manpower utilized and how and what it takes to improve that.

If each call averaged 2 cars thats 62 cars - is that all?

Is the requirement more?

Do we as citizens need to pony up more sales tax or whatever to fund more police protection?

Do we need some type of rapid deployment of new officers?

Do we need to face the fact that attention to crime prevention and its costs need to be addressed?

These are the type things I'm interested in - not as suggested as "pouncing" on anyone. If I am "pouncing" on anything it is pouncing on the problem and searching for a solution.

Cheers!
Chaz

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

I'm sure it isn't so, but this looks like there are only 31 police cars watching the entire city. I guess some are writing tickets which may not be listed as an "active call." I would guess traffic accidents would be an active call or a call holding - so where are the rest of the cars and what were they doing?

You are assuming each call only takes one officer/car/person, which is rarely so.  For instance, the shooting over the weekend near 12th and Erie, I'm sure, took multiple officers, as they were seaching for both victims and suspects.

Some calls only take one officer, such as most wrecks, a report call, or something similar.

Each of the three shifts have what are called 'minimum manning levels'.  I think you would be surprised how low that number actually is.

And we keep pouncing on officers wasting their time writing tickets.  When more people are injured and we spend more money on property damage then all other crimes combined 10 fold, will we realize the police can't ignore people who violate traffic laws.  Every single wreck was preceeded by someone violating a traffic law.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Kiah

quote:Originally posted by Rico

One that is still up ,as far as I can tell, are the "Excecutive Order Contracts" that the previous fellow put in play..

Perhaps this is just a matter of following cancellation procedures for the contracts..

There is mucho green dinero$$ in those contracts.....[]

There's nothing nefarious about the Mayor administering contracts (in the context of the budget and Council appropriations).  It's his/her Charter responsibility . . . .

quote: Artile III

SECTION 1.4 EXECUTIVE AND ADMINISTRATIVE POWERS AND DUTIES. The Mayor shall be the chief executive and administrative officer of the city and shall:

D. Expend as provided by law the funds of the city in accord with the adopted operating and capital budgets of the city;

H. Establish standards of administration and coordinate all administrative services;

J. Administer and enforce the terms and conditions of all contracts;

K. Collect, deposit, invest, and maintain accounts of all revenues, fines, licenses, fees, and funds of the city;

L. Establish and supervise a system of general and cost accounting and maintain inventories of the property of the city.

M. Purchase equipment, materials, supplies, and services and construct, operate, maintain, and repair public improvements, buildings, and facilities;

N. Establish, construct, and maintain streets, sidewalks, alleys, public ways, waterworks, sanitary sewers, sewage disposal systems, storm sewers, storm water drainage systems, waterports, airports, solid waste management systems, transportation systems, and other public improvements and facilities;  

Stay Tuned...


While I may have implied that all Exec. Orders are shady.... You are correct.. They are not..
But some are so shady they are not even grey....

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010 Usually the records division or dispatch will make the phone call if the phone number is available.

I can see where it is more expedient to utter "Storey one time" into a mic than to read seven digits from the report in his hand, but I can also see where that comes across as calloused and uncaring.

Some of the biggest perceptions grow from some of the smallest things.

[RLitterell]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by MH2010 Usually the records division or dispatch will make the phone call if the phone number is available.

I can see where it is more expedient to utter "Storey one time" into a mic than to read seven digits from the report in his hand, but I can also see where that comes across as calloused and uncaring.

Some of the biggest perceptions grow from some of the smallest things.

Exactly!!! And why is everyone whipping this guy for complaining about the service he received from a public entity (TPD)? He has every right to complain. Why did the mod delete the officers name? It should be a matter of public record and the officer is a public servant and receiving taxpayer dollars for his work.

[dwmorris]

Thank you Patric for understanding my point.

It is not that I don't appreciate what the Police do.  It's that I don't appreciate what they don't do.  The norm should be to protect the victim.

Although I am still not happy with Storey...I have to tone down my complaint.  It appears they charge higher than industry standard but not a whole lot more.  Here is the results of my independent survey of wrecker companies around town.

I asked only about the circumstances of my scooter since that is what I have as a reference from Storey.

Allied - $50 hookup
        $15/day storage
             2 day storage for a vehicle picked up at 10AM when it is brought in at 11:30pm the previous night. (10.5 hours actual time)
         NO after hours charge
         $3/mile + 8% fuel charge
Total $96.12

Central - $50 hookup
         $15/day storage
           1 day storage for 10.5 hours
          NO after hours charge
          NO mileage
Total $65.00

D&D - $45 hookup
     $15/day storage
         2 day storage for 10.5 hours
      NO after hours charge
      $15 Saturday pickup charge
      NO mileage
Total $90.00

Aberton - $65 hookup
         $25/day indoor or $15/day outdoor
            2 day storage for 10.5 hours
         $15 after hours charge
         $3/mile + 7.56% fuel surcharge
         $25 rollback (because it is a motorcycle)
Total - $176.40 - $156.00

Storey - $65 hookup
        $15/day storage
            2 day storage for 10.5 hours
        $3/ mile
        $5.92 actual fuel surcharge
        $15 after hour fee
Total(including tax) - $127.48

So surveying 5 companies the price ranged from
a low of $65 to a high of $176

This may seem like pennies to you...but with little to no income while I am school...this represents 2 weeks of food for my kids.        

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by dwmorris

Thank you Patric for understanding my point.

It is not that I don't appreciate what the Police do.  It's that I don't appreciate what they don't do.  The norm should be to protect the victim.

This is a fair point.  If dw was a mere phone call away, then it seems awfully callous and bureaucratic not to give him a ring.  Considering all of the gut-wrenching things that the police have to deal with on a daily basis, its not surprising that empathy is in short supply for something like this.  Still, a little less red tape and a little more "Andy Griffith" will carry a lot of weight with the people that pay you.

[MH2010]

quote:Originally posted by ChazInTulsa

The question still stands - how many cars are on at the time specified earlier and where were they and what were they doing.

I'm not beating up anyone for writing tickets or anything else. I am simply trying to understand the manpower utilized and how and what it takes to improve that.

If each call averaged 2 cars thats 62 cars - is that all?

Is the requirement more?

Do we as citizens need to pony up more sales tax or whatever to fund more police protection?

Do we need some type of rapid deployment of new officers?

Do we need to face the fact that attention to crime prevention and its costs need to be addressed?

These are the type things I'm interested in - not as suggested as "pouncing" on anyone. If I am "pouncing" on anything it is pouncing on the problem and searching for a solution.

Cheers!
Chaz

quote:Originally posted by Wilbur

I'm sure it isn't so, but this looks like there are only 31 police cars watching the entire city. I guess some are writing tickets which may not be listed as an "active call." I would guess traffic accidents would be an active call or a call holding - so where are the rest of the cars and what were they doing?

You are assuming each call only takes one officer/car/person, which is rarely so.  For instance, the shooting over the weekend near 12th and Erie, I'm sure, took multiple officers, as they were seaching for both victims and suspects.

Some calls only take one officer, such as most wrecks, a report call, or something similar.

Each of the three shifts have what are called 'minimum manning levels'.  I think you would be surprised how low that number actually is.

And we keep pouncing on officers wasting their time writing tickets.  When more people are injured and we spend more money on property damage then all other crimes combined 10 fold, will we realize the police can't ignore people who violate traffic laws.  Every single wreck was preceeded by someone violating a traffic law.

Here is the break down of shifts and manpower at uniform divisions.

There are three shifts at the uniform divisions. They are all ten hour shifts. 1st shift is 9:30pm - 7:30am, 2nd shift 7:30am -5:30pm, 3rd shift 5:00pm - 2:00am. These time are general. Each subdivision (UDE, UDSW, UDN) all change shifts at different times so that not everyone is changing at the same time.  There is also a 1 hour to 30 minute overlap with each shift.

The manning level for each shift is different for different days of the week. There is usually more officers working Thursday, Friday and Saturday.  Usually the minimum manning level is between 11 and 13 officers per shift.  That means that their has to be 11-13 officers working at the subdivision for that shift. If there is not (someone is sick, family sick, someone took comp. time off or someone has an adjusted day off)  then the division has to hire someone for an overtime shift. There also has to be at least two supervisors working at the division. Supervisors do not take calls but will respond to scenes when needed.

As an example, lets pick the UDSW division on a Friday night.  UDSW covers the following area, roughly from 11th street to the southern City limits of Tulsa, from the western city limits to S. Sheridan Rd.

So working at UDSW on a Friday there would be:
1st Shift 13 officers
2nd Shift 13 officers
3rd Shift 13 officers

Now between 9:30pm and 2:30am 1st shift and 3rd shift overlap so you would have at minimum 26 officers for the division. However, after 2:30am you are back down to 13 officers.  So lets say a shooting happens at 3:30am.  It's a small shooting with one victim. You need 5 officers to work the scene. You have two on perimeter to hold the scene integrity until detectives arrive, 2 officers to gather the intial witness information, and 1 officer to control the scene and call the appropriate detectives, give suspect info over the radio ect.  That only leaves 8 officers to answer calls in the entire south Tulsa area.  Now lets say three domestic violence calls come in. That takes six officers to handle. Because two officers respond to domestic violence calls. That now leave just two officers.  Now the two officers either see a drunk driver or get a burglary call or an auto theft in progress call. Now all uniformed officers are tied up and no one is out patroling for criminals or responding to other calls.  Now all the report calls are stacking up plus other violent crime calls.  Sometimes officers from other areas of town (UDE, UDN) will be called to respond to calls in another area of town (in this case UDSW) but they are very far off and have their own calls to deal with.

Now for the really bad news, uniform divisions usually operate at minimum manning levels on the weekends.

I hoped this helped explain the situation about why officers are so busy.


04/24/06 12:14 pm

UDSW 11 active calls, 11 calls holding
UDE 11 active calls, 3 calls holding
UDN 8 active calls, 3 calls holding

[Relax]

Thanks MH2010 - very helpful information.

What an eye opener.

We need a lot more officers than we are going to get with stepped up academies.

We need a real solution to increase patrols, IMO.

Thanks again.

Cheers!

[Relax]

One more question MH2010:

I took one division times 13 officers X 3 shifts and get 39 officers. Then I added 13 officers to handle days off and vacations (an assumption) and I get 52 officers for patrol.

Then I take 52 times the three divisions and I get 156 officers for patrol.

Someone said we have about 800 sworn officers.
Is that a good number and how does the rest of the numbers play out? In other words is the difference between the 156 and the number of sworn officers made up of supervisory personnel?

Thanks,

Chaz

[MH2010]

Each division has approx. 115 beat officers. Now you can divide the 115 beat officers into three shifts. That would give you roughly 38 officers per shift.  There are four squads for each shift.So 38 beat officers divided by four is about 9 officers per squad. Each squad has two supervisors. There is also a captain for each shift.

Now not all 9 officers are in each squad are all the time. Each of the 38 beat officers per shift have different groups of days off. Usually the days off go, 1. Friday, Saturday, Sunday 2. Saturday, Sunday, Monday, 3. Sunday, Monday, Tuesday 4. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday 5. Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday 6. Wednesday, Thursday, Friday 7. Thursday, Friday, Saturday. The days off are chosen by seniority.

[Radio]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by MH2010 Usually the records division or dispatch will make the phone call if the phone number is available.

I can see where it is more expedient to utter "Storey one time" into a mic than to read seven digits from the report in his hand, but I can also see where that comes across as calloused and uncaring.

Some of the biggest perceptions grow from some of the smallest things.