What's the progress on "The American"

[breitee]

Big time tacky. Why the hell does everything in Oklahoma have to be tied to Indians?

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by hoodlum

not really hostility I just thought it was a little tacky to begin with

oh yes, I forgot tacky, but I thought that was obvious.

INUK-CHUK!

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by breitee

Big time tacky. Why the hell does everything in Oklahoma have to be tied to Indians?

well, when you take away cowboys and indians what is left to characterize oklahoma?  Oh wait I know!  The scissortailed flycatcher!

wait, now I've got it!  We can have the eagle on the indian have a scissortailed flycatcher clutched in its talons and we'll have an indian blanket flower tucked behind the indian's ear!

somehow we have to figure out how to work in some frito pie or chicken fried steak.

[cannon_fodder]

It is strange a lot of things in Red Man's Land, formerly Indian Territory, that is home to more recognized tribes than anywhere else and among the most in Native population... are related to Native Americans. [B)]

I understand if you think it is tacky.  But I think 40 foot tall bronze praying hands are tacky too, but I don't care if they are built and displayed.  But, I mistook your post for hostility so I digress.

[hoodlum]

I agree that the hands are tacky/ a little kitsch. But they don't loom over downtown like the American would. I am all for sculpture just not the American, and not within sight of downtown.

It is a tough call because it all comes down to personal taste. i like the golden driller because due to its history it has become an icon for Tulsa.

Maybe we can take all the big scultputres and put them in a "Large scale" sculpture park.
The golden driller, the hands, the american, the indian at big cabin, the large tooth on peoria, the buffalo on 1-44 near sapulpa, the blue whale, the volkswagen spider on sheridan, any others?

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by hoodlum


Maybe we can take all the big scultputres and put them in a "Large scale" sculpture park.
The golden driller, the hands, the american, the indian at big cabin, the large tooth on peoria, the buffalo on 1-44 near sapulpa, the blue whale, the volkswagen spider on sheridan, any others?

how depressing, Tulsa is known for oversized "yard art".

[bmuscotty]

All the penguins around town.

[TheArtist]

I wouldn't mind a huge indian statue per say. But I agree this one in particular is very poorly designed. If your going to do a statue that your intending to be proud of, it should be a quality work of art. Its as if we have allowed an amateur to design something thats supposed to be eternal, monumental, and important. You just dont do that. There really is a difference between quality art and garbage. Have you ever been to those large gas stations that have gift stores on the turnpike? They often have kischy little sculptures, cowboys, indians, unicorns, made of plastic or rainbow shimmery ceramic? A lot of "folk" like that stuff and really think its art. Along with Yanni and John Tesh music and Thomas Kinkade paintings. You get the image of the type of person I am talking about. This sculpture is on that same level design wise and in sophistication. Its not good art by any stretch of the imagination.

1. If your going to make a realistic figure, one thats not stylized, make the musculature accurate. Whenever you move, shift your weight to one side or another, lift an arm, certain muscles are more tensed or relaxed. Every movement or position, no matter how slight, affects the tension and posture of the whole body. This sculpture is a complete mess. Any artist or person who appreciates art, anywhere in the world will glance at this sculpture and think... "you have got to be joking". The average Oklahoman may not know the difference, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't do something of quality, we don't need to do something we are saying is good but it be a laughing stock to the rest of the world. Us saying it is good, and it not be, will only serve to make us look more "hick" than we already are.

2.  The over all positioning is so obvously posed to the point that it looks silly. It doesn't even make any sense. "One wonders if he ever had any proper anatomy classes"  One leg is straight, the foot flat on the ground, the knee with the rectus femoris, vastus medialis, etc. obviously tensed ,,, the other has the heel up on a rock, the front of the foot flat on the ground. If you were standing anywhere, would you stand like that? It feels completely uncomfortable and unnatural. Try it. Nobody would be out in a field, on a hillside, wherever, and stand with your heel on a rock like that. Especially considering the rest of the sculpture and what is going on. "The thing is, as an artist I know why he did it, it looks more interesting, gives more drama to have the knee up, than having both legs straight. However, his solution to achieving that was akward. The whole foot should have been up on something if he wanted the knee that high, not just the heel and putting the foot in such a strange looking situation. Though it may have cost more to have gone with a different solution."

3. Though some parts of the body are tensed, the one part of the body that would most obviously be tensed is not, quite the opposite actually.  That being the hand and arm on which a huge eagle is about to land. The arm looks, languidly stuck out there with the hand and pointer finger limply held as if a tiny butterfly is about to alight on his finger. Thats a huge bald eagle there not a gnat! The arm would be tense and the hand likely in a fist. And heck I would be looking in that direction too or slightly flinching away, not seemingly, not noticing and daydreaming off towards the opposite direction. Its like there is no acknowledgment or interaction between the indian and the eagle whatsoever. Why is that? Perhaps the artist wasn't paying attention to the "whole" of the sculpture and what the whole thing was saying. Each part may be ok, but the whole doesn't work as a cohesive piece. I just can't quite figure out what he is trying to say with this thing? Whats the story? Whats going on? When you stand in a certain way, your saying something. There is so much going on here that doesn't "jive" or make sense. All it really says is, "Bunch of poor, stupid, Okies trying to do something and failing miserably. What a laugh they don't know any better."

[perspicuity85]

What I want to know is how the Native tribes stand on this.  Do most tribes feel that this statue is representative of their culture, or is it just a purveyor of more stereotypes?

If I'm correct, the proposed location for this statue is in Osage County.  On maps, I often see all of Osage County labeled as "Osage Indian Reservation."  Is the entire county considered a reservation?  If this is so, how does the Osage tribe feel about this statue?  After all, shouldn't their opinion be considered if an eighteen-story statue of a Native American is proposed on their front door?

Those are my questions.  Truthfully, I think the statue is tacky.  But, if it can be made into an accurate cultural representation, I would feel better about it.  If this project does actually materialize, I want to see professionalism.

[PonderInc]

Interesting question.  I wonder if the native tribes see this as an honor...or just another tacky stereotype wearing a loin cloth.

Please, please, please....could we just build a 10' tall version of this thing and hide it in some bushes somewhere in the botanical gardens...and be done with it!

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

What I want to know is how the Native tribes stand on this.

It's hard to second-guess things like that.
When the NCAA demanded Northeastern State University in Tahlequah change the name of their athletic teams from "Redmen" they assumed it would have the backing of the area tribes.

As it turned out, the only ones offended by the name "Redmen" was the NCAA, but the university president at the time went for the $$$ and changed it.

[cannon_fodder]

I called and spoke with the spokeswoman, she is supposed to be emailing me the official update.  As of yet, she has not (spoke with her this AM).

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

What I want to know is how the Native tribes stand on this.

It's hard to second-guess things like that.
When the NCAA demanded Northeastern State University in Tahlequah change the name of their athletic teams from "Redmen" they assumed it would have the backing of the area tribes.

As it turned out, the only ones offended by the name "Redmen" was the NCAA, but the university president at the time went for the $$$ and changed it.

That's the problem with all of the Native American motifs in Oklahoma- the actual Native American tribes never get to voice their opinion.  The mascot controversy at many Oklahoma schools always seems to turn into a money pit for attorneys and out-of-state civil liberty groups, who have absolutely no knowledge of Native American culture.  It would be nice if someone just interviewed some tribal government officials around the state to get the tribes' official positions.

[Hoss]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by hoodlum


Maybe we can take all the big scultputres and put them in a "Large scale" sculpture park.
The golden driller, the hands, the american, the indian at big cabin, the large tooth on peoria, the buffalo on 1-44 near sapulpa, the blue whale, the volkswagen spider on sheridan, any others?

how depressing, Tulsa is known for oversized "yard art".

I wonder if Houston still has the house with beer cans for a front lawn and siding.  I lived there long enough to see this monstrosity, and glad it's not tied to our city.

[TURobY]

quote:Originally posted by Hoss

I wonder if Houston still has the house with beer cans for a front lawn and siding.  I lived there long enough to see this monstrosity, and glad it's not tied to our city.

Yeah, I was laying in bed and watching the news just last weekend and saw that the building was bought and was being protected (or something like that). I wasn't quite awake yet, so I'm not sure of the specifics.[]