Turnpike U-turn crash

[inteller]

troopers use those turn arounds to go give tickets all the time.  I see it a lot.  hardly emergnecy use IMO.  Unless the speeder is running people off the road its hardly worth the risk to U turn to go after him.  I see these guys parked near a turn around A LOT using their radar both directions to try and catch speeders.  fortunately all the times I've seen them try to get someone in the opposite direction, the oncoming traffic prevents them from getting a chance to turn around.  just as well.

BTW, i'm glad the BA and 169 has barriers all along it and NO turnarounds.  keeps people honest.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

If you have a crash and your car winds up stopped on the shoulder of say the west-bound lane of a highway, without a U-turn lane, first responders would be forced to either park on the shoulder of the east-bound lane and cross two lanes of traffic, scale a 2.5 or 3 ft. high barrier with heavy equipment and a stretcher and dodge another two lanes of traffic.  Or they stop in the inside lane, put more east-bound vehicles in danger and cross two more lanes of traffic on foot.  They would be required to keep running back and forth to make sure they had all the equipment they needed to extract you, stabilize you, and finally transport you.  Not safe or expedient at all.

In my experience traffic would barely be moving (if at all), and u-turn gap or not it does make sense to immediately deploy at last one medic  with a crash kit on foot while the driver stages the ambulance to a more serviceable position.  It's still dangerous, but it's not 80mph traffic in both directions.

quote:I believe I've read or heard that it's now believed that the truck driver swerved into the left lane.  It's possible he saw the lights on the OHP car slowing and saw the car moving toward the right preparing to make the U-turn. It's possible he didn't see a blinker for the confusion of the emergency lights, and assumed the patrolman was pulling off to the shoulder and he was doing what you should do when cars pull toward the shoulder and that's get in the left lane.

The Whirled quoted an OHP spokesperson saying the truck "swerved into the left lane 'For an unknown reason'" after the trooper activated his lights near the outside lane.

Page 6 of their own Driver's Manual might help solve some of this mystery:
 
"You must move to the left lane on a 4-lane road
when there is an emergency vehicle on the right shoulder."

[Conan71]

Back to your point SI as to whether or not two deaths warrant a policy change, IMO- No.  That would be a knee-jerk reaction.  Does the OHP need to review their procedure for using U-turns on interstates? Very likely.

That's two deaths out of the average 600 to 700 that will die on Oklahoma roads every year.

At least a third of all fatality crashes are alcohol or drug-related and are the far easiest to prevent, yet they still happen.  

The latest Oklahoma compilation is from 2004:

http://www.dps.state.ok.us/ohso/ind_dl_2004.htm

They don't list U-turns as a specific action their report, so short of sifting through all the reports to see if a U-turn is considered an improper action, reckless driving, or improper turn, it would be hard to gather anything useful on U-turns out of the Oklahoma stats.  They must do a more comprehensive job of breaking things out over in the UK.

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Back to your point SI as to whether or not two deaths warrant a policy change, IMO- No.  That would be a knee-jerk reaction.  Does the OHP need to review their procedure for using U-turns on interstates? Very likely.

That's two deaths out of the average 600 to 700 that will die on Oklahoma roads every year.

At least a third of all fatality crashes are alcohol or drug-related and are the far easiest to prevent, yet they still happen.  

The latest Oklahoma compilation is from 2004:

http://www.dps.state.ok.us/ohso/ind_dl_2004.htm

They don't list U-turns as a specific action their report, so short of sifting through all the reports to see if a U-turn is considered an improper action, reckless driving, or improper turn, it would be hard to gather anything useful on U-turns out of the Oklahoma stats.  They must do a more comprehensive job of breaking things out over in the UK.

It really isn't a knee jerk reaction. Quite independently of this crash my company has come to this conclusion along with the Highways authority within the UK and from what I can gather a lot of other states in the US and other countries.

My point is that that this is not rare and the U turn is likely to be a contributory factor in other crashes. It is after all a distraction when driving along, people are forced to think 'will he pull out in front of me?' and sometimes that's is all it takes to cause an accident. The data shows that U turns have a high chance of an accident, 0.42, each year. To claim it only causes 2 deaths a year would be the silly as to think that the only people who burn to death each year is that cute family who have the story covered in detail by KOTV. While this case has gained our attention, it is unfortunately not unique and neither are a lot of near misses and smaller accidents that occur.

[Conan71]

I'm sure there will be a review of the T'pike U-turn holes as a result of this crash.  No one, including myself, would dispute there aren't more than two people killed each year in Okla. due to U-turns.  I'm under the assumption that if it were a big enough problem, the ODOT would have already closed them off.

By far, it appears from the 2004 stats I linked to that our turnpikes are the safest roads in the state.

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

I'm sure there will be a review of the T'pike U-turn holes as a result of this crash.  No one, including myself, would dispute there aren't more than two people killed each year in Okla. due to U-turns.  I'm under the assumption that if it were a big enough problem, the ODOT would have already closed them off.

By far, it appears from the 2004 stats I linked to that our turnpikes are the safest roads in the state.

Turnpikes are very safe for the same reason U turns are unsafe. Its hard to crash on a normal turnpike when compared to the hazards that you face on a normal street. All the traffic is going at one speed in the same direction at relatively similar speeds and hopefully reasonable gaps.
U turns are not safe and make what should be a very safe road less safe. Unfortunately it takes this kind of accident to draw attention to what proffessionals already knew.

[NellieBly]

Well the Tulsa World finally put a face to the name of the  trucker who died. An African immigrant working hard trying to bring his family here. Sad. what a tragic loss for his children and I'm sorry it took so long for the World to tell his story after doing more than one story about the trooper.

[Breadburner]

They had trouble locating the family of the truck driver...

[sgrizzle]

I'm starting to get the impression ohp is looking for a scapegoat. The fact the brakes were old, the driver young, whether lights were on or off and how recently the truck changed lanes do not seem to be of any real importance to the accident. The basic facts of the storyseem to point to driver error on the part of the officer and I think that while we mourn for the trooper, we should also recognize that his mistake cost the family in africa dearly as well instead of trying to shift blame around. Maybe someone should start a collection for the trucker's family. Maybe they should at least see where he's buried.

[Goodpasture]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

I'm starting to get the impression ohp is looking for a scapegoat. The fact the brakes were old, the driver young, whether lights were on or off and how recently the truck changed lanes do not seem to be of any real importance to the accident. The basic facts of the storyseem to point to driver error on the part of the officer and I think that while we mourn for the trooper, we should also recognize that his mistake cost the family in africa dearly as well instead of trying to shift blame around. Maybe someone should start a collection for the trucker's family. Maybe they should at least see where he's buried.

There are way too many problems with truckers. Sitting in one of those for the hours they have to, with nothing but XM to listen to and keep them awake, along with the fact that they frequently do not pay close attention, means they are an accident waiting to happen. OTOH, the trooper was a professional driver too, and I'm certain he had had numberous encounters with truckers in the past. He should have allowed for the trucker not paying attention. An extra few seconds before pulling into traffic will not impede anything but the giving of a ticket.

You are not going to have truckers changing the way they are driving, and with NAFTA in place, chances are the south of the border truckers are going to make matters worse.

What is going to have to occur is that emergency vehicles will have to adjust their policies. Perhaps a warning light that can be remote controlled from the crusier/EMT to alert oncoming traffic would help. But to me this is a matter of two people, neither of them paying all that much attention, each making a mistake that created the accident. But as the officer was the one entering the flow of traffic, it was his responsiblity to ensure his entrance was safe, regardless of the trffic situation. If the traffic was that heavy, he should have gone to the nearest exit.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Goodpasture
But to me this is a matter of two people, neither of them paying all that much attention, each making a mistake that created the accident.

What mistake did the truck driver make that caused the accident?

Im doubtful that adding traffic signals to the barrier breaches would do anything but imply that they are for everyone's use (which could be disastrous).

[patric]

A follow up:

"Another motorist has died while trying to make a U-turn through a median divider on an Oklahoma highway."

http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=061019_Ne_A8_Colli25738

"Clarencetta J. Franks, 62, of Tulsa was killed Wednesday when a wrecker struck her 2004 Lincoln Town Car in the driver's door as she attempted to turn across the Keystone Expressway's westbound lanes from the shoulder toward the median divider, the Oklahoma Highway Patrol reported.

On two consecutive days in August 2005, three people were killed in crashes that occurred under identical circumstances in the same spot on the Turner Turnpike.

In both of those crashes, drivers had tried to make U-turns through an opening in a turnpike median divider in Oklahoma County, and their cars were struck by oncoming vehicles."

[mspivey]

I know the driver of the wrecker. He is obviously pretty shaken up. In this case, the Lincoln pulled on to the shoulder going the same direction as the wrecker. The wrecker moved to the left lane. The Lincoln then turned hard left right in front of him. He was driving a two ton wrecker. That should not have been that hard to see.

[patric]

OHP's investigation of itself concludes that the truck the trooper pulled in front of "was speeding, failed to yield to an emergency vehicle and was operating a vehicle with unsafe brakes."
http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=114455

They did however concede that the precipitating u-turn itself was "improper".

[Breadburner]

Sorry if that truck was "speeding" then why did the trooper not pull him over....Not to mention the fact....Why would he pull in front of the truck then stop and turn in front of it....