EMSA or TFD?

[Chicken Little]

From KOTV:

quote:EMSA Contract Up For Renewal
KOTV - 10/12/2006 5:19 PM - Updated 10/12/2006 5:32 PM

A decision was due at the end of the month on whether Tulsa will renew EMSA's contract for ambulance service. This afternoon the mayor asked EMSA to wait until January for the decision, so she will have more time to go through the numbers. The fire department believes it can do the same job for less money than EMSA. Mayor Taylor has heard from both agencies this week with their plans for the next five years and how much it will cost for ambulance service. She says there are no problems with the care EMSA provides, but the increasing subsidy they require - $1.8 million this year, and an estimated $3.4 million next year - requires her to look at the option of using the fire department instead of EMSA.

Mayor Kathy Taylor, Tulsa: "The important thing for us is to find out which works for our community, to maintain the quality of care, that's the first priority, and then to make sure the dollars are used wisely."

The mayor said she's not just looking at what it could cost the city budget, but what it would cost the people who call an ambulance for each trip. We'll have more on the story and EMSA's first response to the fire department plan, tonight at Ten. Emory Bryan, The News on 6.

About EMSA

quote: Emergency Medical Services Authority (EMSA) is the exclusive emergency medical services provider for more than 1.1 million people in Central and Northeast Oklahoma.
   

We provide pre-hospital advanced life support to patients who suffer injuries and illnesses and offer care en route to and from the hospital.

EMSA was established in Tulsa in 1977. The service area was expanded to include Bixby, Jenks, and Sand Springs, and then into Oklahoma City and Edmond in 1990. EMSA now has two divisions -- the eastern division, with Tulsa as the major city, and the western division centered around Oklahoma City.

Each year, we respond to more than 100,000 calls for help. We transport more than 60,000 patients to health care facilities each year.

[patric]

Tulsa made the transition from one of the worst emergency response systems (think "Mother, Jugs and Speed") to being a model EMS that cities many times our size would send emissaries to study it's success.  It's not going to be enough that the fire department can do it for less, but rather if they can keep the bar high without breaking the bank.

I would hate to see that model being subject to hits every time someone wants money for their special projects, and the EMS Authority buffer seems to function as that safety net.

[Breadburner]

If they are smart they will stcik with EMSA.....Tulsa had either the lowest or second lowest subsidy per call of surrounding major cities...Some of those cities being outside Oklahoma.....

[RecycleMichael]

Why do we send fire trucks to every fender bender?

That big fire truck has to be the most fuel-inefficient vehicle ever.

[sgrizzle]

I think EMSA works well but I think sending TFD paramedics and an ambulance to almost every medical call is a bit of a waste.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Why do we send fire trucks to every fender bender?

That big fire truck has to be the most fuel-inefficient vehicle ever.

A lotta times they don't know for sure until they get there if there are any injuries. And, since there are fire stations all over the city, a fire truck can usually get there in about half the time that EMSA can.

Now that doesn't mean that if TFD takes it over response time will be cut in half. There's no way in hell they're going to spend the money to put a MICU at every fire station.

[Conan71]

This is a good question.  I think EMSA has done a very good job.  But since firefighters, as already mentioned, are trained first responders, it could make sense for the TFD to have the contract.  Or perhaps EMSA should start having an ambulance posted at each fire station to improve response times.

[NellieBly]

That's what they do in some Texas towns. The ambulance drivers live at the fire station and are on the same shifts 24 on 48 off.

[Conan71]

Yeah, I guess my point is, firemen get called out to car wrecks, medical emergencies at homes, etc.  It seems like it would save money over sending out a fire truck and an ambulance to every call.

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

But since firefighters, as already mentioned, are trained first responders, it could make sense for the TFD to have the contract

Please dont assume First Reponders and Paramedics are the same thing.  There is a huge gulf between the two skill levels and procedures each are qualified to cary out.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

But since firefighters, as already mentioned, are trained first responders, it could make sense for the TFD to have the contract

Please dont assume First Reponders and Paramedics are the same thing.  There is a huge gulf between the two skill levels and procedures each are qualified to cary out.

Patric, good point, I don't think anyone is confusing the two (it's like the difference between a PA and an MD) or implying that the FD wouldn't have paramedics if they had the contract.  

I just got a chance to peruse the TW story this morning, and the FD claims they can cut costs by $11M a year...but it looked like they were saying they could do it with a fee increase to the same scale OKC charges.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by patric

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

But since firefighters, as already mentioned, are trained first responders, it could make sense for the TFD to have the contract

Please dont assume First Reponders and Paramedics are the same thing.  There is a huge gulf between the two skill levels and procedures each are qualified to cary out.

Patric, good point, I don't think anyone is confusing the two (it's like the difference between a PA and an MD) or implying that the FD wouldn't have paramedics if they had the contract.  

I just got a chance to peruse the TW story this morning, and the FD claims they can cut costs by $11M a year...but it looked like they were saying they could do it with a fee increase to the same scale OKC charges.

That 11 million in savings is over 5 years.....

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Patric, good point, I don't think anyone is confusing the two (it's like the difference between a PA and an MD) or implying that the FD wouldn't have paramedics if they had the contract.  

Good point, as well, but I wonder what effect the expense of additional Paramedic training will have on the Fire Departments existing budget.
Lots of layers to this, and all needing to be explored.

[Conan71]

"That 11 million in savings is over 5 years....."

Yep, you caught me, that's what I get for skimming[:I]  I finally re-read the story in detail.  

I was unaware that they already have over 40 trained paramedics on the FD until I re-read it, I think the story said 44.

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

"That 11 million in savings is over 5 years....."

Yep, you caught me, that's what I get for skimming[:I]  I finally re-read the story in detail.  

I was unaware that they already have over 40 trained paramedics on the FD until I re-read it, I think the story said 44.

Happens to me to.. I also like the fact that this is not some big fight between the Fire Department and EMSA...It's the city looking at options to see whats the best....