EMSA or TFD?

[Mike G]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Welcome to the forum, Mike.

Thanks, glad to be here.

quote:
You said that the Tulsa City Councilors had looked at the Fire Department proposal and now were pro-EMSA. Do you know which councilors?

No I don't, but I believe it is the cost/quality-of-service that is the kicker.  EMSA is one of the best EMS services in the nation and is also one of the cheapest to operate.

quote:I liked your rational for having ambulances staged at better locations than just at fire stations? Could there be a combination of some fire stations and some Quik-Trips for staging?

Doubtful as long as EMSA is a private service.  It's better to have all of the trucks in the same game with SSM.  One of the pluses to SSM is we are constantly refining it based on call volume and data to keep it up-to-date with our calls.

quote:I was not aware of the contract owner, Paramedics Plus. I always assumed it was ran by EMSA themselves. How long has the work been contracted to them and how much time is left on the contract?

I don't know if/when the contract comes up for renewal, but the last contractor was AMR (American Medical Response).  EMSA itself is a privately owned company, but we are also a public trust.  We are ran by EMSA, Paramedics Plus, and the City of Tulsa.  Each controls a different aspect and work together as checks and balances to provide the highest quality of care at the cheapest price possible.

[Artiem]

I work at a local media outlet. My job in no small part consists of listening to scanners for a living. I also deal a lot with both EMSA and TFD.

I think it's been pointed out that fire is already a first responder on all traumatic injuries and other life-threatening incidents. That system has been in place for a few years now. However, I hear the words "waved off by EMSA" a LOT on the scanners. In other words, EMSA got there first and had the situation handled. Moreover, TFD always runs lights and sirens, EMSA doesn't, so comparing response times might not be all that accurate. Now it's important to note that I'm NOT trashing TFD, they do an excellent job. I'm simply saying I don't think you'll see a big drop in response times if TFD takes on ambulance service. As far as the equipment goes, that's not owned by EMSA. EMSA manages the service and employs the people. As for taking sides on the issue, I don't think I know enough about it. I know the TFD chief has said they can do the job for less money for many years now. Cheaper, however, doesn't necessarily mean better. I guess I lean toward the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" solution.

[makelifebetter4ok]

Maybe the Head Cheese allowed politics to figure into her decision to look at the "high" subsidies to EMSA and give the job to TFD?   Naaaaaaaaaaaaah.

[Jason]

Okay here it is... I am new to this forum but I have read all of your recent posts. I apprieciate the tone that you are all taking. It sounds as though you are simply concerned about the EMS service to tulsa. I am a Paramedic with considerable knowledge of this situation.
First, EMSA is a public trust of the City of Tulsa and does own almost all of the rolling stock and nonperishable equipment. Paramedics plus is contracted by EMSA to provide the service ti the city. EMSA's job is to find a the best and most cost effective service. EMSA is basically the oversite to Paramedics plus. It has been that way for many many years.
As far as TFD arriving first most of the time....That is completely wrong. I will find hard numbers but they basically respond to half of the emergencies that EMSA does and then arrive onscene first only part of those times.
TFD is great and as someone said earlier many of thier medics work for EMSA part time. That is great, but as I should point out, only a few actually work as a medic regularly or ever have. Many of them have often been heard saying that they are relieved when EMSA arrives to take over patient care. They are very unsure of themselves and thier skills.
The 11 million dollars over 5 years....Way off.
The numbers are actually going to come out millions of dollars over EMSA to have TFD do the job and not have the same response times. This has been proven by TFD. I agree that the service should be questioned  from time to time. But right now the best choice seems to be EMSA.
I hope I did not seem to forward but the facts should be mentioned. I would be glad to answer any other questions.

[shadows]

All the talk about the cost of none emergency transfer between is published as amounting to 60% of the calls, involving three for profit operations.   In a recent none emergency transfer between local hospitals the bill was $777.00.  Lets take a long look at the proposal of the TFD who says they can save us millions where EMSA wants over a million subsidy.   If it is a none emergency just call a cab and it will save ever one money. I am sure the TFD has a van to transport with.  

[RecycleMichael]

Welcome to the forum, Jason.

It is interesting that we are getting new opinions and new posters on this topic. It must be one of those good community discussion topics that TulsaNow does better than anyone.

The dollars do matter. If one of the proposals truly saves millions, it will be hard for any of the decision makers to not choose them.

But this decision is way to important for just the finance guys to make. Every call they respond to has the potential to save your or my loved one.

Keep the information coming. Having good and well-informed posters will lead to community support for whatever decision is made.

[protulsa]

quote:Originally posted by Jason

Okay here it is... I am new to this forum but I have read all of your recent posts. I apprieciate the tone that you are all taking. It sounds as though you are simply concerned about the EMS service to tulsa. I am a Paramedic with considerable knowledge of this situation.
First, EMSA is a public trust of the City of Tulsa and does own almost all of the rolling stock and nonperishable equipment. Paramedics plus is contracted by EMSA to provide the service ti the city. EMSA's job is to find a the best and most cost effective service. EMSA is basically the oversite to Paramedics plus. It has been that way for many many years.
As far as TFD arriving first most of the time....That is completely wrong. I will find hard numbers but they basically respond to half of the emergencies that EMSA does and then arrive onscene first only part of those times.
TFD is great and as someone said earlier many of thier medics work for EMSA part time. That is great, but as I should point out, only a few actually work as a medic regularly or ever have. Many of them have often been heard saying that they are relieved when EMSA arrives to take over patient care. They are very unsure of themselves and thier skills.
The 11 million dollars over 5 years....Way off.
The numbers are actually going to come out millions of dollars over EMSA to have TFD do the job and not have the same response times. This has been proven by TFD. I agree that the service should be questioned  from time to time. But right now the best choice seems to be EMSA.
I hope I did not seem to forward but the facts should be mentioned. I would be glad to answer any other questions.

When you say "many of them are relieved when EMSA arrives..." are you referring to TFD paramedics or EMT/first responders?

The EMT/fr would surely be relieved to have a paramedic show up, especially on cardiac runs.

As far as being unsure of themselves, what would happen if you told a paramedic to crawl to the back of a burning house and find the patient in total blindness?

The point is TFD fights fires & EMSA does EMS. Each does a great job.  It is far more efficient to have specialized organizations, rather than a "jack of all trades" approach.

Now that OKC stuck with EMSA, the chances of Tulsa kicking EMSA out went way down.

Which is good, because the system works fine.

[MH2010]

At the last count, 64% of Tulsa Police officers live outside the Tulsa city limits.

[protulsa]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

At the last count, 64% of Tulsa Police officers live outside the Tulsa city limits.

Does the city or FOP provide that data?

[Jason]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

All the talk about the cost of none emergency transfer between is published as amounting to 60% of the calls, involving three for profit operations.   In a recent none emergency transfer between local hospitals the bill was $777.00.  Lets take a long look at the proposal of the TFD who says they can save us millions where EMSA wants over a million subsidy.   If it is a none emergency just call a cab and it will save ever one money. I am sure the TFD has a van to transport with.  

I do nto disagree that we should look at a proposal when we are told it will save the city millions. I can tell you that the numbers are not true and will be proven as in OKC. As far as calling a cab for what I can only assume you  mean to be "non" emerency "transfers", Many of these people cannot even stand or sit upright let alone sit in a wheelchair. If you mean minor emergency "transports", the last I heard is that anyone requesting transport in an ambulance to a local ER could not be told no and to take a cab. I believe that is a city ordinance given to EMSA.
Many people also believe that they would be paying tax dollars and therefore would not get a bill from TFD for ambulance service. This is alos not true. In fact TFD has hired a billing company in not only another city but another state to bll the citizens of Tulsa for service.
When it all said and done we will all see that TFD would require much more money and not be as efficient.

[Jason]

quote:Originally posted by protulsa

quote:Originally posted by Jason

Okay here it is... I am new to this forum but I have read all of your recent posts. I apprieciate the tone that you are all taking. It sounds as though you are simply concerned about the EMS service to tulsa. I am a Paramedic with considerable knowledge of this situation.
First, EMSA is a public trust of the City of Tulsa and does own almost all of the rolling stock and nonperishable equipment. Paramedics plus is contracted by EMSA to provide the service ti the city. EMSA's job is to find a the best and most cost effective service. EMSA is basically the oversite to Paramedics plus. It has been that way for many many years.
As far as TFD arriving first most of the time....That is completely wrong. I will find hard numbers but they basically respond to half of the emergencies that EMSA does and then arrive onscene first only part of those times.
TFD is great and as someone said earlier many of thier medics work for EMSA part time. That is great, but as I should point out, only a few actually work as a medic regularly or ever have. Many of them have often been heard saying that they are relieved when EMSA arrives to take over patient care. They are very unsure of themselves and thier skills.
The 11 million dollars over 5 years....Way off.
The numbers are actually going to come out millions of dollars over EMSA to have TFD do the job and not have the same response times. This has been proven by TFD. I agree that the service should be questioned  from time to time. But right now the best choice seems to be EMSA.
I hope I did not seem to forward but the facts should be mentioned. I would be glad to answer any other questions.

When you say "many of them are relieved when EMSA arrives..." are you referring to TFD paramedics or EMT/first responders?

The EMT/fr would surely be relieved to have a paramedic show up, especially on cardiac runs.

As far as being unsure of themselves, what would happen if you told a paramedic to crawl to the back of a burning house and find the patient in total blindness?

The point is TFD fights fires & EMSA does EMS. Each does a great job.  It is far more efficient to have specialized organizations, rather than a "jack of all trades" approach.

Now that OKC stuck with EMSA, the chances of Tulsa kicking EMSA out went way down.

Which is good, because the system works fine.

I think you and I are thinking exactly the same. I think our fire dept is great and I sure dont want to crawl around in a burning building.

[TeeDub]

BA seems to do well with the FD running the ambulance service.  

But then again, they don't have either the size, or the body politic that Tulsa has to deal with either.

[makelifebetter4ok]

quote:Originally posted by TeeDub


BA seems to do well with the FD running the ambulance service.  

But then again, they don't have either the size, or the body politic that Tulsa has to deal with either.

Mod, why are you CENSORING posts delving into the political considerations of EMSA v. TFD?

Are you narrow-minded or are you just being a dude-bag?  Go ahead.  STOP me.

[shadows]

EMSA is only a third party in the city bureaucracies.  The city does not use the manpower of the city but looks other places to run it's bureaucracies.  There is a cloud on which city the mayor is from.  

The city of Broken Arrow may or may not have an ambulance  service as the hospitals in their city call ambulances from other cities.  Why?

The changes of that fellow who freed Iraqi also worked over Medicare where if it would have gone broke in 17 years, it now has awaken all those who increased medical cost over 400% wanting even a bigger cut of the pie.  The insurance companies are relying on the new changes because the average person cannot understand what in the hell they are talking about.   EMSA is not going to turn loose their hold on the peoples check book of open signed checks  

[Jason]

quote:Originally posted by shadows


 EMSA is not going to turn loose their hold on the peoples check book of open signed checks  

I am not really sure what you mean by this last statement. I can only assume that ou are not pro-EMSA. I wonder if you have any knowledge at all about what the costs really are when referring to EMSA. Since you speak so freely I again can only assume that you are aware that EMSA, even with a greater subsidy, is one of the lowest subsidised EMS systems in the nation. All while maintaining one of the top 5 cardiac arrest save rates in the nation. The check book is far from open to EMSA.
It will be show very soon that EMSA is the wise choice for the emergenc healthcare and the financial well being of the city. I can only hope that those who make these decisions do not let their emotions get the better of them. OUr system works great as is. TFD and EMSA work very well together and should be left alone.