No Wonder He Is Not President

[sgrizzle]

I sometimes think Cheney is there to try and make Bush look like the smart one.

Kerry's written version includes the word "Us" in his joke.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by snopes

I still feel the same about an apology directly to the troops.

If he meant to insult Bush and it just came out wrong, why should he apologize to the troops? It seems to me like clarification that wasn't trying to insult them would be all that's needed.

quote:
One more thing, if Kerry has a speechwriter, that person should be fired.

We're doing a whole lot of speculation based on one ten second clip posted by someone on YouTube. We don't know what the context was and we don't know if he was following a speech written by a speech writer, if he was ad libbing or if he just got his tongue crossed. In fact, if we KNEW the context it might never have been an issue. But the person that posted the video eliminated all context. That makes me suspicious right off. Another thing that makes me suspicious is that, outside of Fox News and a handful of Republicans possibly attempting to exploit and spin this, there's almost no news coverage of it.

[papaspot]

"While he never quite apologized for his remarks Monday at Pasadena City College, Kerry said he had not sought to offend the troops, but rather had deviated slightly from a prepared text that made an effort to poke fun at President Bush.

 
"My statement yesterday was a botched joke about the president," Kerry said as Democrats attempted to cool anger over his remarks at a campaign rally for Democratic gubernatorial candidate Phil Angelides."

Air Force Times

[papaspot]

I'll add one more thing even though I've said it before. I'm sick and damn tired of people using the men and women of the military (and, yes, veterans) as political pawns. Yes, both sides do it and it's equally disgusting either way. But in this case, it's the right wing that's doing it and it's a new low. Maybe Kerry SHOULD apologize to the troops for saying something that could be exploited by right wingers against the military. But the right wingers should ALSO apologize for using it to exploit the troops. Regardless of what you think of his politics, Kerry is a highly decorated war veteran and I doubt if anyone here (except probably Cubs and Guido) still buys into the shameless bullcrap smear committed by the Republican Party through their political whores like the SwiftBoat Pilots.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

RW, Papa, and anyone else out there. Army and Air Force. Good enough for ya? BTW, we have established nothing.

You didn't mention anything about your combat experience.

[snopes]

quote:Originally posted by papaspot

Originally posted by snopes

I still feel the same about an apology directly to the troops.

If he meant to insult Bush and it just came out wrong, why should he apologize to the troops? It seems to me like clarification that wasn't trying to insult them would be all that's needed.

You're assuming that he is being entirely truthful in his clarification and giving him a free ride on what he "meant" to say but not taking him to task on what he actually said.

Regarding things being taken out of context; I have read the jokes in leading up to his comments and it doesn't change the meaning of his uneducated troop comments at all, at least for me.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by snopes

You're assuming that he is being entirely truthful in his clarification and giving him a free ride on what he "meant" to say but not taking him to task on what he actually said.

You mean like we assumed that he was following the script of the speech that was written for him? By all means, we should ASSUME that he's lying. After all, as a decorated war veteran he has every reason to insult the troops.

quote:
Regarding things being taken out of context; I have read the jokes in leading up to his comments and it doesn't change the meaning of his uneducated troop comments at all, at least for me.

Got a link? How 'bout sharing is so we can decide for ourselves instead of taking your word (opinion) for it.

[aoxamaxoa]

quote:Originally posted by snopes

quote:Originally posted by papaspot

Originally posted by snopes

I still feel the same about an apology directly to the troops.

If he meant to insult Bush and it just came out wrong, why should he apologize to the troops? It seems to me like clarification that wasn't trying to insult them would be all that's needed.

You're assuming that he is being entirely truthful in his clarification and giving him a free ride on what he "meant" to say but not taking him to task on what he actually said.

Regarding things being taken out of context; I have read the jokes in leading up to his comments and it doesn't change the meaning of his uneducated troop comments at all, at least for me.

Snopes don't be dopes....the comments were clearly not about the troops but about the dunce trying to run the world....

[aoxamaxoa]

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/15519404/

"The context was unmistakable: Texas; the state of denial; stuck in Iraq. No interpretation required.

And Mr. Bush and his minions responded by appearing to be too stupid to realize that they had been called stupid.

They demanded Kerry apologize to the troops in Iraq.

And so he now has.

That phrase — "appearing to be too stupid" — is used deliberately, Mr. Bush.

Because there are only three possibilities here.

One, sir, is that you are far more stupid than the worst of your critics have suggested; that you could not follow the construction of a simple sentence; that you could not recognize your own life story when it was deftly summarized; that you could not perceive it was the sad ledger of your presidency that was being recounted.

This, of course, compliments you, Mr. Bush, because even those who do not "make the most of it," who do not "study hard," who do not "do their homework," and who do not "make an effort to be smart" might still just be stupid, but honest.

No, the first option, sir, is, at best, improbable. You are not honest.

The second option is that you and those who work for you deliberately twisted what Sen. Kerry said to fit your political template; that you decided to take advantage of it, to once again pretend that the attacks, solely about your own incompetence, were in fact attacks on the troops or even on the nation itself.

The third possibility is, obviously, the nightmare scenario: that the first two options are in some way conflated.

That it is both politically convenient for you and personally satisfying to you, to confuse yourself with the country for which, sir, you work.

A brief reminder, Mr. Bush: You are not the United States of America."

[papaspot]

Here's a nice bit of right wing hypocrisy:

White House defends Bush 'comma' on Iraq war

As far as I know, Bush has never apologized to the troops for HIS comments nor was a big deal  made over them. All that proves is that the Republicans have a much more effective spin/smear machine than the Democrats do.

[tim huntzinger]

Y'know how to do a good Bush impression: pretend your upper lip is frozen stiff from years of cocain abuse, and when speaking, purse your lips like you are sucking all the truth out of the room.

Kerry was obviously was trying to make fun of Bush.  The first time I heard it, it did not even register that he was mocking the troops.  Not surprised that the GOP has nothing else to run on but the same old smear and fear.

Kerry on Imus on the WFAN clip page:

http://wfan.com/imusinstantreplay/

[Kenosha]

RW's spin?  You've got to be kidding me? This whole thing is manufactured by the Republican Machine. It is classic Rovian strategy. Twist and distort...create a sideline controversy to distract from the real issues. It won't work though. It does the Repubs no good to focus ANY attention on Iraq, regarless of the circumstances.

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Thank you RW for your spin...I did not know you were a vet.

[guido911]

Kenosha:  That's right, Karl Rove made John Kerry make that joke. Karl Rove also made Kerry say that our soldiers in Iraq were "going into the homes of Iraqis in the dead of night, terrorizing kids and children, you know, women, breaking sort of the customs of the--of--the historical customs, religious customs."

http://newsbusters.org/stories/kerry_us_troops_terrorizing.html?q=node/3092

Yep, Karl Rove also climbed into his time machine to 1971 and forced Kerry to testify before Congress as follows:

I would like to talk on behalf of all those veterans and say that several months ago in Detroit we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged, and many very highly decorated, veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia. These were not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit - the emotions in the room and the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.

They told stories that at times they had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and turned up the power, cut off limbs, blown up bodies, randomly shot at civilians, razed villages in fashion reminiscent of Ghengis Khan, shot cattle and dogs for fun, poisoned food stocks, and generally ravaged the countryside of South Vietnam in addition to the normal ravage of war and the normal and very particular ravaging which is done by the applied bombing power of this country.

We call this investigation the Winter Soldier Investigation.

http://ice.he.net/~freepnet/kerry/index.php?topic=Quotes

John Kerry is a victim of Karl Rove

John Kerry would never insult our soldiers since he is a war veteran.  

[waterboy]

Karl Rove has guaranteed an October surprise in interviews around the country. I'm sure he has more in store. I wish you young f*rts who wern't even born or old enough to be at risk would stop bringing up this sh*t that required having been there to understand. You're armchair quarterbacks with "W, The President" tattooed on your 'arses. You sound like whining old John Birchers. I'll agree with you on this point gyro666, if you wern't old enough to serve in Nam stop bringing it up to make points today. Your man didn't serve there and neither did any of his ruling buddies.  

You and Cubs are why people get so pissed off about political forums and throw up their hands in disgust. Rewriting current events and history is not enough. You have to cross culturalize, travel in time to make moral judgements on those who had the guts to serve under fire and then pillory them when they dare to disagree with you and the regime. I cannot explain the depths of contempt I have for you and your ilk who have kept these morons in office so long with your polluted thinking. Watergate to you was just a Democratic conspiracy. Go Diebold indeed. Might as well tattoo 'arsehole and an arrow on your butt so the other Bushies don't get confused.

[papaspot]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Yap yap yap

Well, since you're not a combat veteran your opinion doesn't count anyway, now does it? Or does your ignorant little rule only apply to OTHER people?

If you weren't in Vietnam you don't have a CLUE what did and didn't happen there. But I won't let you bait me into lowering myself to your level by using veterans as a political pawn.