Hey, what happend to the crappy post from...

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by snopes

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by snopes

Wrong OilCaps. Look at the stats again. Apparently you refuse to read, but judging from those with a high school degree or higher in Houston I see that there is a 25% chance of that not being possible. I do not deny that Tulsa has its problems, but you see - most of Davaz' posts are about how Tulsa is so backward and Houston is sooo much more prefereable. I am merely disputing that using some of the typical tex-donkey smack talk attitude. It goes both ways.

Oops, that's actually a 30% chance of not having a high-school education in Houston - my bad.

And there you go again.  I'll just let the ridiculous personal attacks slide.  

Perhaps I overstated it a bit when I said that all the linked stats were about states;  but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas.

Trust me, I can read quite well.  And BTW, I live in Tulsa, not Houston.

Okay, I apologize to you if I've offended you with what you considered personal attacks; it's not my nature and it's not condusive to our argument. I get rather heated when it comes to stuff like this from Texans because I lived there for five years and heard this kind of crap on a daily basis.

Would you please go back and re-read your most recent post though? You say that you overstated it a bit when you said that all of the linked stats were about states and not metro areas and then you go on and immediately contradict yourself in the sentence that follows.

"but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas."

I've provided plenty of city stats to back up my claims, that Tulsa is not some shambles of a city and is indeed a better place to live (in my opinion), not to mention some more direct life experience type items (see list in other post), but the most I see coming from the other side of the argument is

*Tulsa is backward
*You drive funny cars
*You don't have a equitable dispersion of wealth (something that stats do NOT back up)
*We have more fortune 500 companies than you...

Am I getting my point across any clearer? Sure, Tulsa has ALOT of problems that I would dearly love to see addressed, but I'm not on a Houston forum bashing the city left and right calling them backward.

No, I did not contradict myself.  The posting talked only about the STATE statistics.  It provided links to backup those STATE statistics and made no reference whatsoever to any metro statistics that may have incidentally been in those linked websites.  

And as I said above, there was NO attempt whatsoever to address the point being made by Tulitlikeitis, which did not bash Tulsa right and left (although he may have in the past, but let's focus on the present, can we, where Tulitlikeitis at least appeared to be making an effort to have a civil conversation with Hometown.  

But you and AZbadpuppy would have none of that.  You two immediately had to jump in and start trashing Houson and Texas.

You need to get over whatever bad experiences you had in D-FW.  Good grief; Just move on with your life already.  I guess things are different in D-FW than in Houston.  (Yes, I once lived in Houston)  I don't remember anyone ever mentioning Oklahoma, let alone trashing it.  I also visit Houston pretty regularly (and yes, I love Houston's weather) and nobody has ever trashed Tulsa or Oklahoma when I tell them where I'm visiting from. EVER.

[Hometown]

Sorry, I can't keep my mouth shut.

Snopes you are FUNNY!

Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.

Oil Capital.  Like the sound of that Name.  Oil Capital.  I am really curious how you would respond to Davaz.  Would you be willing to tell us how you would respond?

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by snopes

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by snopes

As for some more specific city to city comparisons between Tulsa and Houston - and these are quality of life issues having nothing to do with who has a bigger football stadiums, more people, or who has more of those stupid ugly glass buildings.

Tulsa has

*Better weather - we have four seasons
*Fall foliage
*Less unemployment
*The architecture in Downtown Tulsa is stunning. Houston? LOL!
*Shorter commute times
*Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
*Snow days
*Easier to navigate streets
*Less humidity
*More of a community feel because of its size
*Less sprawl
*Less of a distance to travel and see nature
*Hills

And there are many more. If you'll look at the list, these items have nothing to do with which cities have more fortune 500 companies, mega malls, or airports. These are things that directly affect a person's quality of life on a daily basis. I realize some of the things such as snow and less humidity are more specific to me but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that likes the weather in Houston. It simply stinks.

Who asked for a comparison to Houston?

I'm wondering Oil Capital if you've actually been reading the threads on this post. I can understand why you may have not, since it's rather long. Tulit.. or Davaz currently lives in Houston, many of the statements that he has made about Tulsa being backward are in direct comparison to cities in Texas like Houston, where he currently professes to live and is, in his opinion, far superior due to the number of fortune 500 companies that choose to dwell there.

No, I have not read this entire thread.  Because most of it is very tedious and childish.  As I said in my post above, I was hoping that when Tulitlikeitis actually appeared to be attempting to engage in a mature, civil, non-trashing conversation he could get a like response.  But that was not to be.  I'm not talking about the previous pages of this thread.  I'm talking about this page, today.

[snopes]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by snopes

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by snopes

Wrong OilCaps. Look at the stats again. Apparently you refuse to read, but judging from those with a high school degree or higher in Houston I see that there is a 25% chance of that not being possible. I do not deny that Tulsa has its problems, but you see - most of Davaz' posts are about how Tulsa is so backward and Houston is sooo much more prefereable. I am merely disputing that using some of the typical tex-donkey smack talk attitude. It goes both ways.

Oops, that's actually a 30% chance of not having a high-school education in Houston - my bad.

And there you go again.  I'll just let the ridiculous personal attacks slide.  

Perhaps I overstated it a bit when I said that all the linked stats were about states;  but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas.

Trust me, I can read quite well.  And BTW, I live in Tulsa, not Houston.

Okay, I apologize to you if I've offended you with what you considered personal attacks; it's not my nature and it's not condusive to our argument. I get rather heated when it comes to stuff like this from Texans because I lived there for five years and heard this kind of crap on a daily basis.

Would you please go back and re-read your most recent post though? You say that you overstated it a bit when you said that all of the linked stats were about states and not metro areas and then you go on and immediately contradict yourself in the sentence that follows.

"but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas."

I've provided plenty of city stats to back up my claims, that Tulsa is not some shambles of a city and is indeed a better place to live (in my opinion), not to mention some more direct life experience type items (see list in other post), but the most I see coming from the other side of the argument is

*Tulsa is backward
*You drive funny cars
*You don't have a equitable dispersion of wealth (something that stats do NOT back up)
*We have more fortune 500 companies than you...

Am I getting my point across any clearer? Sure, Tulsa has ALOT of problems that I would dearly love to see addressed, but I'm not on a Houston forum bashing the city left and right calling them backward.

No, I did not contradict myself.  The posting talked only about the STATE statistics.  It provided links to backup those STATE statistics and made no reference whatsoever to any metro statistics that may have incidentally been in those linked websites.  

And as I said above, there was NO attempt whatsoever to address the point being made by Tulitlikeitis, which did not bash Tulsa right and left (although he may have in the past, but let's focus on the present, can we, where Tulitlikeitis at least appeared to be making an effort to have a civil conversation with Hometown.  

But you and AZbadpuppy would have none of that.  You two immediately had to jump in and start trashing Houson and Texas.

You need to get over whatever bad experiences you had in D-FW.  Good grief; Just move on with your life already.  I guess things are different in D-FW than in Houston.  (Yes, I once lived in Houston)  I don't remember anyone ever mentioning Oklahoma, let alone trashing it.  I also visit Houston pretty regularly (and yes, I love Houston's weather) and nobody has ever trashed Tulsa or Oklahoma when I tell them where I'm visiting from. EVER.

I provided plenty of CITY stats Oil Capital. And if you will carefully reread your post you did indeed contradict yourself in the same paragraph. Shall we get into another argument on that topic alone? It seems you use the same strategy as Davaz and jump around from issue to issue not offering anything substantive, and when someone nails your behind on something you won't even own up to that. Since you're such a supporter of Davaz and the great city of Houston, I would like to know how you would respond to Davaz. And again, if you will read the entire thread and many of the other threads from Davaz, he doesn't offer constructive criticism, he merely puts down the city without offering any real data to back up his claims. In fact, I'm beginning to believe that you are indeed just another incarnation of Davaz himself. Email accounts are free.

[snopes]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by snopes

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by snopes

As for some more specific city to city comparisons between Tulsa and Houston - and these are quality of life issues having nothing to do with who has a bigger football stadiums, more people, or who has more of those stupid ugly glass buildings.

Tulsa has

*Better weather - we have four seasons
*Fall foliage
*Less unemployment
*The architecture in Downtown Tulsa is stunning. Houston? LOL!
*Shorter commute times
*Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
*Snow days
*Easier to navigate streets
*Less humidity
*More of a community feel because of its size
*Less sprawl
*Less of a distance to travel and see nature
*Hills

And there are many more. If you'll look at the list, these items have nothing to do with which cities have more fortune 500 companies, mega malls, or airports. These are things that directly affect a person's quality of life on a daily basis. I realize some of the things such as snow and less humidity are more specific to me but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that likes the weather in Houston. It simply stinks.

Who asked for a comparison to Houston?

I'm wondering Oil Capital if you've actually been reading the threads on this post. I can understand why you may have not, since it's rather long. Tulit.. or Davaz currently lives in Houston, many of the statements that he has made about Tulsa being backward are in direct comparison to cities in Texas like Houston, where he currently professes to live and is, in his opinion, far superior due to the number of fortune 500 companies that choose to dwell there.

No, I have not read this entire thread.  Because most of it is very tedious and childish.  As I said in my post above, I was hoping that when Tulitlikeitis actually appeared to be attempting to engage in a mature, civil, non-trashing conversation he could get a like response.  But that was not to be.  I'm not talking about the previous pages of this thread.  I'm talking about this page, today.

Although his tone was a little more civilized earlier on in this thread, mainly thanks to Hometown's responses, his latest post was to say (and I quote) THIS IS A BUNCH OF CRAP! And, this thread and Davaz has a long history on this board. History doesn't matter to you? Well, it matters to me.

[snopes]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Sorry, I can't keep my mouth shut.

Snopes you are FUNNY!

Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.

Oil Capital.  Like the sound of that Name.  Oil Capital.  I am really curious how you would respond to Davaz.  Would you be willing to tell us how you would respond?

Those bugs are all over the restaurant windows in the summer down there. Go to any restaurant that has windows and especially in the evenings you will see tons of 'em hanging on, peeking inside, scraping and clawing to get in, looking so much like the exoskeletal beggars that they are.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by snopes

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by snopes

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by snopes

Wrong OilCaps. Look at the stats again. Apparently you refuse to read, but judging from those with a high school degree or higher in Houston I see that there is a 25% chance of that not being possible. I do not deny that Tulsa has its problems, but you see - most of Davaz' posts are about how Tulsa is so backward and Houston is sooo much more prefereable. I am merely disputing that using some of the typical tex-donkey smack talk attitude. It goes both ways.

Oops, that's actually a 30% chance of not having a high-school education in Houston - my bad.

And there you go again.  I'll just let the ridiculous personal attacks slide.  

Perhaps I overstated it a bit when I said that all the linked stats were about states;  but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas.

Trust me, I can read quite well.  And BTW, I live in Tulsa, not Houston.

Okay, I apologize to you if I've offended you with what you considered personal attacks; it's not my nature and it's not condusive to our argument. I get rather heated when it comes to stuff like this from Texans because I lived there for five years and heard this kind of crap on a daily basis.

Would you please go back and re-read your most recent post though? You say that you overstated it a bit when you said that all of the linked stats were about states and not metro areas and then you go on and immediately contradict yourself in the sentence that follows.

"but the fact is that all the stats given to us in the post (and the purpose of the links was just to support those stats) were about states, not metro areas."

I've provided plenty of city stats to back up my claims, that Tulsa is not some shambles of a city and is indeed a better place to live (in my opinion), not to mention some more direct life experience type items (see list in other post), but the most I see coming from the other side of the argument is

*Tulsa is backward
*You drive funny cars
*You don't have a equitable dispersion of wealth (something that stats do NOT back up)
*We have more fortune 500 companies than you...

Am I getting my point across any clearer? Sure, Tulsa has ALOT of problems that I would dearly love to see addressed, but I'm not on a Houston forum bashing the city left and right calling them backward.

No, I did not contradict myself.  The posting talked only about the STATE statistics.  It provided links to backup those STATE statistics and made no reference whatsoever to any metro statistics that may have incidentally been in those linked websites.  

And as I said above, there was NO attempt whatsoever to address the point being made by Tulitlikeitis, which did not bash Tulsa right and left (although he may have in the past, but let's focus on the present, can we, where Tulitlikeitis at least appeared to be making an effort to have a civil conversation with Hometown.  

But you and AZbadpuppy would have none of that.  You two immediately had to jump in and start trashing Houson and Texas.

You need to get over whatever bad experiences you had in D-FW.  Good grief; Just move on with your life already.  I guess things are different in D-FW than in Houston.  (Yes, I once lived in Houston)  I don't remember anyone ever mentioning Oklahoma, let alone trashing it.  I also visit Houston pretty regularly (and yes, I love Houston's weather) and nobody has ever trashed Tulsa or Oklahoma when I tell them where I'm visiting from. EVER.

I provided plenty of CITY stats Oil Capital. And if you will carefully reread your post you did indeed contradict yourself in the same paragraph. Shall we get into another argument on that topic alone? It seems you use the same strategy as Davaz and jump around from issue to issue not offering anything substantive, and when someone nails your behind on something you won't even own up to that. Since you're such a supporter of Davaz and the great city of Houston, I would like to know how you would respond to Davaz. And again, if you will read the entire thread and many of the other threads from Davaz, he doesn't offer constructive criticism, he merely puts down the city without offering any real data to back up his claims. In fact, I'm beginning to believe that you are indeed just another incarnation of Davaz himself. Email accounts are free.

Again with the personal attacks. You really just can't help yourself can you?  I have no need or reason to read the entire thread.  Why can't we talk about the post that started all of this.  And where is my contradiction?  If you show it to me I'll own up to it.  I was talking about AZbadpuppy's post, not yours.  He/she talked entirely about STATE statistics, not metro statistics.  And besides which, tul's post under discussion had nothing whatsoever to do with metro comparisons.  It was entirely about Tulsa.

As I tried to explain earlier (in the language in which you find a contradiction), I originally thought that the sites to which AZBadpuppy linked were entirely state statistics.  That's where I overstated.  What I should have said was that the stats given by AZBadpuppy were entired state statistics.  I guess you are not understandin the distinction between "linked" stats and "posted" stats.

Where have I "jumped around from issue to issue"?

So, what are YOUR thoughts about tulitlikeitis' post that is under discussion?   Nobody has seen those either.  I'll post mine shortly

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by tulitlikeitis

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Well Tulsa has Oklahoma's wealthiest zip code.  And there are certainly some rich folks supporting those estates over by Philbrook.  But you are right.  Many Tulsans have very little resources.  I do think it is a major failing of Tulsa's that her job creation strategies have not produced much.  And it is dumbfounding and sad that the anti-union forces have prevailed in a state where workers are so clearly in need of some protections.  Yes the number of minority and White folks living in poverty in Tulsa is quite discouraging.

My sense is that Tulsa is still led by the same old rich families and that they are second tier players in the industries they inhabit and that they as a group have failed Tulsa.  The Republicans have failed Tulsa and the Oil Industry has failed Tulsa.

But that's not the half of Tulsa.  Tulsa is big and complex and feisty and muscular and always in motion.  She's a town full of charming sweet talkers and men in big fat trucks.  I've never seen another town exactly like her.

Hometown – you posted a thoughtful note and I will try and post an equally thoughtful response.

I really don't know what is wrong with Tulsa but at this stage of my life, I neither have the time nor the inclination to wait for an upturn. Tulsa's problems have been a long time in the making and will require a long time to mend ... if ever.

From a resource perspective, in any city you have about five groups as noted below:

1.   Wealthy
2.   Upper Middle Class Professional
3.   Middle Class
4.   Lower Middle Class
5.   Poor

Due a national trend of manufacturing job loss and a local trend of energy company loss, the ranks of Tiers 2 and 3 have been decimated in Tulsa. That is not to say that they are gone completely but are seriously reduced. For Tulsa, that now leaves three predominant groups:

1.   Wealthy
2.   Lower Middle Class
3.   Poor

We know this to be true ... one can go on the streets and see it every day. Why is there no change? Because the wealthy want nothing to change (particularly the Tulsa wealthy) and the other two groups have no resources to drive change. It is the upper middle class professionals in most cities that drive change. They are the ones that rehab inner city neighborhoods, discover trendy restaurants and buy new BMW's at 50k$ a whack.

To someone with resources, Tulsa is not an attractive place. The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak. Of course, there is terrible poverty in any city ... Houston, LA, NYC, etc. The problem is that in Tulsa it seems in your face wherever you turn.

Like I said ... I came, looked around and did not like what I saw and left. I am not the only one ... the so-called "brain-drain" at the two big state schools continues unabated. They know the reality even if the cheerleaders on this board refuse to admit it.

I think Tulitlikeitis has perhaps hit on a pretty good theory about Tulsa losing a lot of its "upper middle class professional" and "middle class" population.  That is similar to the oft-discussed brain-drain, so it is not entirely an original thought.  But I think the "brain-drain" that is usually discussed is with reference to young people, recently graduated from college.  The theory I'm seeing from tulitlikeitis is that the "brain-drain" if you will has extended beyond just young people.

I would be interested to see some statistics on this, one way or the other.  But looking at the situation merely anecdotally, it makes a lot of sense.  When Sunoco and Vintage/Oxy and Parker Drilling, and Citgo etc. move well-paid professional and upper-middle-class and middle class jobs out of town and they are replaced by call center jobs...

And of course Tul is hardly the first one to coment that Tulsa's wealthy people don't generally want change.  It's a little hard to argue with him on that one.  And he is probably right that, especially in Tulsa, it is the upper-middle-professional and middle class that would most likely drive the needed change, and if you have a shortage of those people, well, it's not good.

I would not agree with Tul regarding poverty hitting you in the face every where you turn in Tulsa.  That is a stretch.

Okay, your turn, Snopes

[snopes]

Oil Capital, on one hand you say that you're not concerned with history, only about what took place today, and then in another post you spoke of how you want to get to the root of the problem in regards to the origination of this thread. You keep saying there are no city specific stats to back up any claims but I've offered several. Would you care to discuss those on a rational level? As for personal attacks, you've made plenty by inferring that I have the intelligence of a 7th grader, and more. At least I owned up on my side and apologized, but of course I don't expect such an apology from you. Go ahead, stick up for Davaz and the great city of Houston; you and your alter ego will have alot to talk about bashing the city of Tulsa for being backward and going on and on about how many fortune 500 companies it takes to screw in a light bulb.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by snopes

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by snopes

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by snopes

As for some more specific city to city comparisons between Tulsa and Houston - and these are quality of life issues having nothing to do with who has a bigger football stadiums, more people, or who has more of those stupid ugly glass buildings.

Tulsa has

*Better weather - we have four seasons
*Fall foliage
*Less unemployment
*The architecture in Downtown Tulsa is stunning. Houston? LOL!
*Shorter commute times
*Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
*Snow days
*Easier to navigate streets
*Less humidity
*More of a community feel because of its size
*Less sprawl
*Less of a distance to travel and see nature
*Hills

And there are many more. If you'll look at the list, these items have nothing to do with which cities have more fortune 500 companies, mega malls, or airports. These are things that directly affect a person's quality of life on a daily basis. I realize some of the things such as snow and less humidity are more specific to me but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that likes the weather in Houston. It simply stinks.

Who asked for a comparison to Houston?

I'm wondering Oil Capital if you've actually been reading the threads on this post. I can understand why you may have not, since it's rather long. Tulit.. or Davaz currently lives in Houston, many of the statements that he has made about Tulsa being backward are in direct comparison to cities in Texas like Houston, where he currently professes to live and is, in his opinion, far superior due to the number of fortune 500 companies that choose to dwell there.

No, I have not read this entire thread.  Because most of it is very tedious and childish.  As I said in my post above, I was hoping that when Tulitlikeitis actually appeared to be attempting to engage in a mature, civil, non-trashing conversation he could get a like response.  But that was not to be.  I'm not talking about the previous pages of this thread.  I'm talking about this page, today.

Although his tone was a little more civilized earlier on in this thread, mainly thanks to Hometown's responses, his latest post was to say (and I quote) THIS IS A BUNCH OF CRAP! And, this thread and Davaz has a long history on this board. History doesn't matter to you? Well, it matters to me.

Speaking of going off on side issues...History in general matters to me.  The history of this thread does NOT.

His "This is a bunch of crap" response was to AZbadpuppy's response, which was indeed a bunch of crap.  That was a totally fair and acurate response.  For the very reasons I have already gone into.  It did not address or respond to Tul's post.  It just threw a bunch of irrelevant statistics comparing OK and TX, which was NOT what Tul's post was about.  Got it?

And your thoughts in response to Tul's post?  (Mine in a post above.)

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by snopes

Oil Capital, on one hand you say that you're not concerned with history, only about what took place today, and then in another post you spoke of how you want to get to the root of the problem in regards to the origination of this thread. You keep saying there are no city specific stats to back up any claims but I've offered several. Would you care to discuss those on a rational level? As for personal attacks, you've made plenty by inferring that I have the intelligence of a 7th grader, and more. At least I owned up on my side and apologized, but of course I don't expect such an apology from you. Go ahead, stick up for Davaz and the great city of Houston; you and your alter ego will have alot to talk about bashing the city of Tulsa for being backward and going on and on about how many fortune 500 companies it takes to screw in a light bulb.

Again with the constant jumping from issue to issue...

What in the world are you talking about?  Where have I talked about wanting to get to the root of the problem in regards to the origination of this thread???  

I also never complained there are no city-specific stats.  Only that (a) there were none in Azbadpuppy's post, (b) that comparisons to Houston were not on subject, and for that matter(c) I have still not seen any stats that address the issues raised in Tul's post (which is, after all what we (well, I) are trying to talk about.  Do you have Tulsa stats that show any comparison of Tulsa upper-middle-class/professional stats say from 2000 compared to 2006?  THOSE stats would be relevant to the discussion.  Dated high school graduation rates, especially with no timeline comparison, are not relevant, ESPECIALLY those from the target of your obsession, Houston.)

and I've made plenty of personal attacks?  You've named one, which was richly deserved (and I think you even agreed it was deserved at that point, since you apologized for the statements that led to it) which I asked (neither inferring nor implying) if you were a 7th grader.  I am sorry I had to ask such a question.  (But FWIW, you never did answer...  ;-)

(I don't know if you've noticed this, but you are the only one talking about Houston.  Do you have just a bit of an obsession?)  ;-)

And now for your thoughts on Tul's post re: the loss of upper middle professional and middle class Tulsa??

[brunoflipper]

wow, it is almost as if someone had desperately tried to get back to houston (but been unable to find gainful employment as say, an attorney) and still longs to return...

just a passing observation...

[Hometown]

You speak with great precision Oil Capital.  I agree with your assessment of Tul's criticism.  

I've thought that Tulsa and Fort Worth have many similarities because of their modest middle classes.  Fort Worth has always sort of stood in the shadow of Dallas and for a while it felt neglected and overlooked like Tulsa.  What Fort Worth has that Tulsa doesn't was a new group of super rich.  The new rich were billionaires.  The old money folks were millionaires.  Now I could be proved wrong on this.  Tulsa may have its share of billionaires.

I think a long time ago Tulsa got sold on a notion of "economic diversification" that has since become an unquestioned sacred cow and a cornerstone of policy.  But I think Tulsa should have fought tooth and nail hang onto a more prominent niche in the oil business.  I just saw Citgo walk away without as much as a whimper out of Tulsa.

The good news is that we still have a critical mass of oil services business that we should fight to keep and we have a number of small oil companies and small oil companies are expected to do well as we reach peak oil.

As we wrestler with the Channels, Bartlesville is eating our lunch with their beefed up ConocoPhillips.  We haven't even given the rest of the state a good fight and we've let OU site its energy research in Norman.  Oil is about top drawer jobs and on the other hand diversification – thirty years later – has been a miserable failure.  I say we cut our losses and do some hard math and get back to basics – invest in energy business jobs.

[tulitlikeitis]

People reading this thread would do well to read a recent NYTimes article titled "Cities Compete in Hipness Battle to Attract Young," Dewan and Goodman, 11-25-06. An excerpt from that article is quoted below:

" ... The problem for cities, says Richard Florida, a public policy professor at George Mason University who has written about what he calls ''the creative class,'' is that those cities that already have a significant share of the young and restless are in the best position to attract more.
''There are a dozen places, at best, that are becoming magnets for these people,'' Mr. Florida said.
That disparity was evident in a report released this week by the Metropolitan Atlanta Chamber of Commerce, which showed Atlanta leading the pack among big cities, while other metro areas, like Philadelphia, hemorrhaged young people from 1990 to 2000. (In this competition, surveys that make a city look good are a favorite opening salvo.)
In that decade, the Atlanta study said, the number of 25- to-34-year-olds with four-year college degrees in the city increased by 46 percent, placing Atlanta in the top five metropolitan areas in terms of growth rate, and a close second to San Francisco in terms of overall numbers. Charlotte, N.C., also outperformed Atlanta, with a growth rate of 57 percent, the second highest in the country after Las Vegas.  ..."

Do any of you think Tulsa can compete in this league? Get a grip.

[azbadpuppy]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by snopes

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by snopes

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by snopes

As for some more specific city to city comparisons between Tulsa and Houston - and these are quality of life issues having nothing to do with who has a bigger football stadiums, more people, or who has more of those stupid ugly glass buildings.

Tulsa has

*Better weather - we have four seasons
*Fall foliage
*Less unemployment
*The architecture in Downtown Tulsa is stunning. Houston? LOL!
*Shorter commute times
*Less creepy, crawly bugs. I see those things everytime I go to Houston on restaurant windows looking in like starving children and it makes me lose my appetite.
*Snow days
*Easier to navigate streets
*Less humidity
*More of a community feel because of its size
*Less sprawl
*Less of a distance to travel and see nature
*Hills

And there are many more. If you'll look at the list, these items have nothing to do with which cities have more fortune 500 companies, mega malls, or airports. These are things that directly affect a person's quality of life on a daily basis. I realize some of the things such as snow and less humidity are more specific to me but I think you'd be hard pressed to find anyone that likes the weather in Houston. It simply stinks.

Who asked for a comparison to Houston?

I'm wondering Oil Capital if you've actually been reading the threads on this post. I can understand why you may have not, since it's rather long. Tulit.. or Davaz currently lives in Houston, many of the statements that he has made about Tulsa being backward are in direct comparison to cities in Texas like Houston, where he currently professes to live and is, in his opinion, far superior due to the number of fortune 500 companies that choose to dwell there.

No, I have not read this entire thread.  Because most of it is very tedious and childish.  As I said in my post above, I was hoping that when Tulitlikeitis actually appeared to be attempting to engage in a mature, civil, non-trashing conversation he could get a like response.  But that was not to be.  I'm not talking about the previous pages of this thread.  I'm talking about this page, today.

Although his tone was a little more civilized earlier on in this thread, mainly thanks to Hometown's responses, his latest post was to say (and I quote) THIS IS A BUNCH OF CRAP! And, this thread and Davaz has a long history on this board. History doesn't matter to you? Well, it matters to me.

Speaking of going off on side issues...History in general matters to me.  The history of this thread does NOT.

His "This is a bunch of crap" response was to AZbadpuppy's response, which was indeed a bunch of crap.  That was a totally fair and acurate response.  For the very reasons I have already gone into.  It did not address or respond to Tul's post.  It just threw a bunch of irrelevant statistics comparing OK and TX, which was NOT what Tul's post was about.  Got it?

And your thoughts in response to Tul's post?  (Mine in a post above.)

Actually, you are wrong again. Tul said, and I quote: "The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak."

If you are going to come and bash poverty in Oklahoma and you are from Texas, then you really prove what an idiot you truly are.

When presented with CITY statistics for Houston and Tulsa, you didn't much like that either, did you? Unless I missed something, Davaz does live in Houston, no? the place that is supposedly so much better than the poor backward hole that is Tulsa?

Sorry if you don't like the facts, but the truth hurts sometimes.