Hey, what happend to the crappy post from...

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

No boarded up buildings?  

Driven around town lately, try taking a drive along Admiral from downtown to 129th Street or Pine or Apache in the same area.

Even around 11th, 15th and 21st are several buildings that have been boarded up with Available Dot Com signs which have been up so long the paint has faded off.

Check with a few of the big commercial real estate brokers.  Many have entire shopping centers that have but 2 or 3 tenants all over Tulsa.    

Many of the vacant units have had all the copper wire and pipe, plus aluminum Air Conditioner units stipped and stolen out of them by thieves.

Go check out West Tulsa's industrial parks, or what is left of them.  Run out East and take a close look at the Rail Road Wheel plant North of Pine about 151st street that never opened, or the Albertson's Food Distribution Warehouse that failed due to the sluggish failing economy here.  Then come back past the closed Hale Hassel food distribution warehouse that has set empty for years.  There are several large buildings north of Pine between Sheridan and Memorial that sit empty.

Drive north on Lewis to where it ends and look to the West at that Industrial Park.  Drive through and check how many buildings sit idle there.  On your way back towards downtown take a close look along the side of HWY 75 at the large abandoned buildings near North of Downtown.

If you want lunch you could cruise out on Charles Page Blvd West of downtown Tulsa to the Knotty Pine Bar B Que, and see how many of those Industrial buildings are vacant and sitting idle.  

Thought there was going to be a loop that connected Hwy 75 to Charles Page, but guess we need to raise the sales tax once again to make that happen.

Not sure if anything occupies the old Git N Go corporate space.  

Then drive downtown, you will not have any problem locating a parking space there.

Get out of your car and enter a couple of dozen downtown buildings, the guard will kindly inform you that there are typically 3 or less floors occupied, if the building is even open.  

I led a "feet on the street" campaign for a year.  Every new hire was all the buzz about hitting Downtown Tulsa, "just look at all those buildings" they would shout out, the potential.  

It was a big shock to many when they walked into those buildings to discover the real story.

On you way back south, stop by the Oral Roberts City of Faith building and take the elevator up to see the many floors that have never even been finished.  They are just bare concrete.

Many things are not as they appear to be.

Thanks for taking the time to draw this out for us AMP.  I was talking with a native son real estate agent about the oil companies leaving town and he recounted a startling number that I wish I could remember.  It was something like 68% of the commercial real estate in town was owned by or had been leased out to the oil business when we were growing up here in the 60s.

People will argue that business cycles and industry developments are beyond the control of any one city, but I do think the mantra of diversification prevented us from putting up a good fight.  Tulsa oil business is still being cherry picked to this day.

USRufnex, you say Oil Capital has an Oklahoma City agenda?  Too bad, looks like he would be a good advocate for Tulsa.  Oil Capital, I'm just thankful you aren't Davaz.

[Oil Capital]

ROFL

So many of you are such drama queens.  

The only agenda I can fairly be accused of having is keeping things realistic and honest.    The drama queens tend to not like facts very much when they contradict Tulsa mythology, and out come the personal attack artillery.  

When I posted facts and numbers proving that the Tulsa mythology of having a far larger downtown residential population was simply not true, you would have thought I'd called everyone's mother a Nazi stormtrooper.  

The response was similar when I posted facts and numbers disproving the Tulsa mythology that the OKC metro area is far more sprawling than Tulsa.  There were wild cries and stamping of feet and wails of "they just aren't similar, they just aren't."  (Never mind the facts; they can be such stubborn things.)

(And BTW, in both of those instances, it was not I who brought OKC into the conversations.  I merely responded to statements, initially asking for support and then (having gotten no response other than some variant of "everyone knows that's true") finding the facts myself.)

I guess the drama queens are insisting that this particular thread is and must remain dedicated to bashing Davazz.  So be it.  Knock yourselves out.  Is there are thread on this board restricted to grownups?

[jdb]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital


ROFL

...I posted facts and numbers proving...

...when I posted facts and numbers disproving...

Is there are thread on this board restricted to grownups?

So this cause's you to roll on the floor and laugh, eh?

How is posting some items and calling them "proof" "grownup"? Reads to me like a classic Dickbump Davaz line to me.

Ruf, nailed it, talking circles saying nothing.

Want a grown up thread? Go ahead, you try and start one, see what happens.
They get high-jacked, just you high-jacked this one.

Tip: don't expect much from a topic that has the word "crappy" in the title. jdb

[brunoflipper]

just checking...

who currently lives in houston or has recently aggressively sought employment in and tried to move to houston?

let's start a list-
1) davaz (obvious enough)
2) ?

any additional posters want to fess up?

[snopes]

quote:Originally posted by brunoflipper

just checking...

who currently lives in houston or has recently aggressively sought employment in and tried to move to houston?

let's start a list-
1) davaz (obvious enough)
2) ?

any additional posters want to fess up?

Bruno, every time I see your avatar and that signature line I get a good laugh. Not me. I've been offered jobs in Houston over the years but flat out turned them down because I wasn't interested; the reasons for which I've already stated. They weren't good jobs anyway, mostly contracts that were going to be short lived. A couple were full-time with benefits but I still wasn't interested. It's truly one of the last places I'd choose to live in these United States.

[Hometown]

I made a reference to job hunting in Tulsa.  Haven't considered Houston though I'll admit that I'm tempted to take a look at Dallas.  Also thinking about San Jose.  And also considering renting out the house and taking off for Latin America.  What are you fishing for Bruno?

p.s.  I think jdb missed his Pink Barn social grace classes.

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

ROFL

So many of you are such drama queens.  

The only agenda I can fairly be accused of having is keeping things realistic and honest.

Well, I suppose you feel the need to flatter yourself.  Nobody else will.    

quote:
The drama queens tend to not like facts very much when they contradict Tulsa mythology, and out come the personal attack artillery.

Once again, after reading multiple posts from you on this thread............. pot to kettle..... come in, kettle.......... Tulsa?... Tokyo?..... Houston?.... Roger?
 

quote:
When I posted facts and numbers proving that the Tulsa mythology of having a far larger downtown residential population was simply not true, you would have thought I'd called everyone's mother a Nazi stormtrooper.

Yeah... and I remember getting frustrated at the Tulsa-is-better-than-OKC-no-matter-what-we-do crowd...... and suggested I'd like to buy the city of Tulsa a shot hoping it would kill the bug up their a$$e$...... that's about the time the thread got locked, if memory serves...

But EVERY time any discussion of Tulsa gets going, when somebody says something positive, you discount it.  When somebody says something negative, you spare no effort to defend them.  And it's magnified in this thread.

quote:The response was similar when I posted facts and numbers disproving the Tulsa mythology that the OKC metro area is far more sprawling than Tulsa...

Yeah, and I remember that others from OKC were posting as well... I thought it odd that somebody with a screen name of Oil Capital decided to join in... started off thinking you probably grew up in Tulsa and was using Oil Capital in reference to Tulsa's "good old days"... didn't think anything of it at the time.  But now I smell a rat.

quote:
(And BTW, in both of those instances, it was not I who brought OKC into the conversations.  I merely responded to statements, initially asking for support and then (having gotten no response other than some variant of "everyone knows that's true") finding the facts myself.)

Nope, you got plenty of responses.  Tulsa's downtown has more residents than OKC's.  The facts were documented.  The number wasn't "far larger" but it was larger... and Tulsa has sprawled of late but OKC was built for sprawl-- it was sprawling before the word sprawl was coined...

quote:
I guess the drama queens are insisting that this particular thread is and must remain dedicated to bashing Davazz.  So be it.  Knock yourselves out.  Is there are thread on this board restricted to grownups?

Name calling.... once again.... pot to kettle...
Sorry, but I've already fallen to one or two of DAVAZ's sockpuppets thinking he was somebody who liked Tulsa but had to leave because he felt the city going downhill...

But that was simply a ruse he used as BAIT.  

And of course you didn't refer to OKC directly in this thread...  otherwise it wouldn't qualify as a hidden agenda.

[tulitlikeitis]

The cheerleaders on this board would do well to read a couple of works of current literature.

The first is "What's The Matter with Kansas" by Thomas Frank. It describes how a large section of the Midwest (including Oklahoma) has been made nearly inhabitable by a combination of rock hard conservatives and religious crazies.

The second is titled "Rise of the Creative Class" by Richard Florida. It describes how certain cities are going gangbusters in attracting young professionals. Is Tulsa among these cities? You guessed it ... not a chance

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by tulitlikeitis

The cheerleaders on this board would do well to read a couple of works of current literature.

The first is "What's The Matter with Kansas" by Thomas Frank. It describes how a large section of the Midwest (including Oklahoma) has been made nearly inhabitable by a combination of rock hard conservatives and religious crazies.

The second is titled "Rise of the Creative Class" by Richard Florida. It describes how certain cities are going gangbusters in attracting young professionals. Is Tulsa among these cities? You guessed it ... not a chance

Hey, look... the return of the retard. Lost another political race in Podunk, Texas?

So you're saying Houston doesn't have rock hard conservatives and religious crazies??? You are out of your mind. Houston is crawling with Bushes and Baptists. And where does Florida rank Houston?

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

No boarded up buildings?  

Driven around town lately, try taking a drive along Admiral from downtown to 129th Street or Pine or Apache in the same area.

Been there.  Done that.  Spent early childhood down the street from the old Guitar House off Admiral/Sheridan.  Remember when there was a Utotem on the corner.  Recently drove from Admiral/Garnett down to Admiral/Peoria.  The area certainly has its problems, but I didn't see it as completely abandoned as has happened in other cities.  

quote:
Even around 11th, 15th and 21st are several buildings that have been boarded up with Available Dot Com signs which have been up so long the paint has faded off.

Check with a few of the big commercial real estate brokers.  Many have entire shopping centers that have but 2 or 3 tenants all over Tulsa.

If by "all over Tulsa" you mean there are several strip malls that have few tenants, you're right.  But I've seen that in other cities.  Heck, even the old Village Theater I used to go to as a kid is now a car lot, which is still better than having it all boarded up.  Yep, bought coneys at the old Carl's at Executive Mall off 21st & Garnett... the area's changed alot... and I'd never considered Tulsa to be an ethnic city.  Yet that area is decidedly ethnic.  

And my new company (which has its headquarters in Chicago, BTW) chose to put its bilingual department in Tulsa.  Those jobs could easily have gone to Chicago, but they're here.  And that's a good thing.  Something that indicates that for all the whining, moaning and belly-aching you hear around this city, somebody is doing something RIGHT...    
 

quote:
I led a "feet on the street" campaign for a year.  Every new hire was all the buzz about hitting Downtown Tulsa, "just look at all those buildings" they would shout out, the potential.  

It was a big shock to many when they walked into those buildings to discover the real story.

The area still has potential.  I saw a block or two here and there but nothing to connect it.

quote:
On you way back south, stop by the Oral Roberts City of Faith building and take the elevator up to see the many floors that have never even been finished.  They are just bare concrete.

Many things are not as they appear to be.

Yeah, I worked at City of Faith hospital when I was in high school.  I don't remember more than 4 or 5 floors open at any given time (and that included one floor reserved for intensive care and another just for "mental health.")  Some of us used to take the elevator to different floors just to admire the incredible waste of space....

I'm not sure why you'd use this example since there were so many different Tulsa groups at the time that lobbied hard against the City of Faith getting a permit to build in the first place.  And it was built with Oral's $$$, not city tax dollars.  This was Oral Roberts' white elephant, not Tulsa's... guarded by a 900 ft. Jesus, no less.  ORU's claim/spin was that evangelical Christians from all over the country would elect to travel to Tulsa for medical treatment; that turned out NOT to be the case.

The area around Skelly Stadium is actually alot nicer than I remember it being in the 70s.  Southeast Tulsa has grown exponentially.  Owasso and Broken Arrow have too.  

If somebody wants to move to Chicago or the Bay Area or Boston or NYC or even Dallas or Houston, that's great.  Hope you get a great job making great money.  

Cuz you're gonna need it.  As for the oil business... Tulsa's economic downturn after 9/11 would have been far, far worse if the city had most of its eggs in the oil industry's basket.

Imagine, Hometown, if "something like 68% of the commercial real estate in town was owned by or had been leased out to the oil business" back in 2001.  The Enron effect would have been magnified in Tulsa many times over...

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

Overblown hyperbole about the city's decline is a lot of worthless hot air and it gets on my nerves.

Ditto that.  []

[Hometown]

Hey, I went to art school, what do I know?  But I think a lot of the current upturn in city revenues is oil related.  I'd take 68% of Tulsa occupied by the Oil Business any day.  Bold that and add an exclamation mark.

This is so strange.  I've read you tearing into the status quo here and now your like Tulsa is perfect.    

Well she is perfect in a Zen sort of way.  But not because she's bigger and badder than anyone.

There are all these new civic groups formed to fight the problems you are trying to argue don't exist.

I mean admitting that Tulsa has some serious challenges is just common sense.

I'm into finding solutions. Admitting AMP's careful description into evidence is a good place to start.  Then you say where do we go from here?  Most of us want to end up at the same place.  Tulsa Beautiful -- all happy and well fed.  Peace in the valley.  Money in the bank.

[jdb]

"...now your like Tulsa is perfect." - HT

Ok, nibbling at some bait, or letting myself in for a rabbit trail of reading: how about a question?

That no reasonable person, be they an olfactory challenged cheerleader, blind as a Fundamental Christian, or as deaf as Tom Baker, would ever use the word "perfect" to describe the Tulsa they see upon opening their front door: and scooching behind a pillow, the thought that just maybe you use the word, "perfect" here as an exaggeration to illustrate your point - what other possible reason would one (in this case, you) use the word "perfect" except as a snide remark?

Lazy diction?

"Hurdle the dead, trample the weak, and to hell with wonky-eyed, pink barn wankers!" - jdb

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

I made a reference to job hunting in Tulsa.  Haven't considered Houston though I'll admit that I'm tempted to take a look at Dallas.  Also thinking about San Jose.  And also considering renting out the house and taking off for Latin America.  What are you fishing for Bruno?

p.s.  I think jdb missed his Pink Barn social grace classes.

not fishing... got a bite, months ago, and landed it...

as luck would have it, i happened to meet a previously anonymous tulsanow poster...

/cue the music/

we met via a mutual acquaintance (who did not know that either of us were on here)... an initially benign conversation, fueled by alcohol, lead to a subtle disclosure of their internet identity...  it was pure luck... i'm still amazed, that in my own drunkenness, i did not spill the beans... somehow, i was able to  bite my tongue and play off the whole "interwebs"...

months later, after a telling flurry of biased posts, i used a PM to call their bull****... they tried to place me but  were unable... i resisted offering up any identifying characteristics... concerned about being "outed", they backed off of the debate quickly...

to this day, they have yet to come clean on this forum about their "houstonian" (having nothing at all to due with davaz) bent...

we've met since the original instance... but they still did not get it...

nope. not fishing.
just cleaning them.

[tulitlikeitis]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

quote:Originally posted by tulitlikeitis

The cheerleaders on this board would do well to read a couple of works of current literature.

The first is "What's The Matter with Kansas" by Thomas Frank. It describes how a large section of the Midwest (including Oklahoma) has been made nearly inhabitable by a combination of rock hard conservatives and religious crazies.

The second is titled "Rise of the Creative Class" by Richard Florida. It describes how certain cities are going gangbusters in attracting young professionals. Is Tulsa among these cities? You guessed it ... not a chance

Hey, look... the return of the retard. Lost another political race in Podunk, Texas?

So you're saying Houston doesn't have rock hard conservatives and religious crazies??? You are out of your mind. Houston is crawling with Bushes and Baptists. And where does Florida rank Houston?

Houston is 7th from the top (San Fran and Austin are 1 and 2) while Tulsa is down in the pits at number 61 (even OK city is better than Tulsa).

Old Lawyer's trick -- never ask a question where you don't know the answer.