Hey, what happend to the crappy post from...

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

Pleased to meet you
Hope you guess my name, oh yeah
Ah, whats puzzling you
Is the nature of my game, oh yeah

Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah
Whats my name
Tell me, baby, whats my name
Tell me, sweetie, whats my name
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Ooo, who, who
Oh, yeah

Personally.... I find any comparisom between a song written about Kenneth Anger and dribble from a leaky sh%#..hole.... an insult to mankind... but that is just me..

[Hometown]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Come on Double A.  He aint all that.

Yeah, more like a puffed up person who finds himself dismissed by the natives as unpleasant company.

Hometown - Waterboys nod aside, isn't it nuerotic to expects reason from a nuerotic?

http://www.queendom.com/tests/minitests/fx/neurotic.html

Well I was hopeful that we could resolve something.  And I think it's important for Tulsa Now to allow serious criticism of Tulsa.  But it doesn't look like Davaz can deliver meaningful criticism.  He couldn't spell out any specifics.  Am I neurotic?  Oh sure.  Know any good therapists?

[rwarn17588]

You're better than me, Hometown. You're trying to be a nice guy and reach out to him. His indifferent response show him to be the jerk he really is.

[snopes]

[/quote]
Where have you been living? On another planet? You must be blind.
If you have come from the Bay area as you said, the backwardness should be plain to see ... it sure was to me. If you don't see it, no amount of words from me would point it out.  You see it everywhere ... cars people drive, their dress, food preferences ... everything.
Like I said before ... Tulsa is the land that time forgot.
By the way, leave characterizations of native this and native that to me. I may have been born there but I am surely not of there ... and there is a difference.
[/quote]

Typical Texan, especially one from the hot, muggy, bug infested swamp they call Houston. I've been to your "fair" city Davaz and you couldn't pay me any amount of money to live in that hell-hole. As for Tulsa being "backward" please cite some examples. You say the clothes that people wear and the cars they drive are examples, well - I have seen more backwater types driving bondo'd camaros in and around Houston than I've ever seen around here.

[Double A]

Tuck Fexicans!

[tulitlikeitis]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Davaz, you didn't respond to my question about your family.  And you didn't really lay out any specific examples of backwardness.  In the past I've seen you respond to topics about religious extremists.  But beyond that I can't really speculate about what you find backwards.

You paint an attractive picture of yourself.  I imagine that you are skipping over some less flattering aspects of your story.  

One glaring point in your story that you haven't mentioned is your repeated return to the place that you say you dislike so much.  Your frequent visits to TulsaNow says there is still something you want from Tulsa.  And the fact that it is in someway fulfilling for you to take on various personalities to repeatedly criticize Tulsa is quite neurotic.

Now to really reach any consensus or to even begin to understand each other we need to understand what we value.  

I would agree with you that on many levels Tulsa is mediocre.  You site some great retail in Texas and I would say to you that the shopping in Dallas is nearly unrivaled in the United States.  And the retail in Tulsa is pretty sad.  So what.

I don't think many worldly Tulsans are going to tell you that Tulsa is a really serious contender for the biggest, baddest, mostest in any category.  Tulsa was a golden girl.  She was great early in her life.  And she hasn't been the center of anything since the 1920s.  But she was great once and bits and pieces of that remain.  

Don't get me wrong.  I love fancy stores, and world-class museums and all the things that giant urban areas have to offer and none of those things are here.  And I love here.  I love here because it is where I am from and it is my measure, my standard.  I am genuinely excited by the sight of Tracy Park just because I played there as a boy.  I am thrilled by the simplest things here.

Tulsa is small and comfortable and the pace is human and she still has great physical charm.

Did you ever play at Bells when you were a kid?  Sure it's rinky dink to fuss over the future of an amusement park.  That's part of the attraction here.  Life is simple enough that we can take time to fuss over Bells.

Now I can understand what happened to you.  I hear you Davaz.  Maybe someday I'll hear the rest of the story.  I'm sorry Tulsa didn't work out for you.  

What I don't understand is why you didn't anticipate what you would find in Tulsa.  And I don't understand why you can't let go.

You want an indicator ... I will give you one.

One of the smartest companies in the financial business is Fidelity Investments out of Boston. They are the world's largest fund company and have keen eye as to where they locate their investor centers. They locate them where the money is!

Dallas and Houston are typical of big cities -- they each have four investor centers. But it is not all big cities. The following cities all have at least one.

Memphis
Minneapolis
Raleigh - Durham
Charlotte
Portland
Denver

Even little Palo Alto and Scottsdale have one.

Guess what about Tulsa and Oklahoma City? You guessed it -- not even one in the state.

Point made.

[sgrizzle]

Dude, I think.. like, if you don't have like.. a Dunkin Donuts then you're not a forward thinking town.

Yeah.

[Hometown]

I have never seen anyone contributing posts to TulsaNow claim that Tulsa was a financial center of any kind.  Houston has the wealthiest zip code in the United States.

I do recall one thoughtful critic saying that Tulsa needed money center banks to be a major player in the oil business.

It gets back to what you value Davaz.  Money isn't everything.

[tulitlikeitis]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

I have never seen anyone contributing posts to TulsaNow claim that Tulsa was a financial center of any kind.  Houston has the wealthiest zip code in the United States.

I do recall one thoughtful critic saying that Tulsa needed money center banks to be a major player in the oil business.

It gets back to what you value Davaz.  Money isn't everything.

You missed the point ... none of those cities are financial centers with the possible exception of Charlotte. What they are is what Tulsa is not -- places where the citizens have resources.

[brunoflipper]

quote:Originally posted by tulitlikeitis

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

I have never seen anyone contributing posts to TulsaNow claim that Tulsa was a financial center of any kind.  Houston has the wealthiest zip code in the United States.

I do recall one thoughtful critic saying that Tulsa needed money center banks to be a major player in the oil business.

It gets back to what you value Davaz.  Money isn't everything.

You missed the point ... none of those cities are financial centers with the possible exception of Charlotte. What they are is what Tulsa is not -- places where the citizens have resources.

wow, i wonder if it is population driven... it is... call them and ask... they have a lot of my money and have for a long time... the investors centers have had limited penetration across the midwest... "the investor centers" are only one of there three retail operations... you are full of ****...

and this is what it all comes down to- money?? wow, i learned in my youth that those of any substantial financial standing rarely ever talk about it... you seem to be consumed by it... for you sake, i hope you win the lottery...

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by tulitlikeitis



Even little Palo Alto and Scottsdale have one.

Guess what about Tulsa and Oklahoma City? You guessed it -- not even one in the state.

Point made.

Ummm.... dude.  "Little" Palo Alto is in the Bay Area and is the home of Stanford Univ.  "Little" Scottsdale is a suburb of Phoenix.....

Point made?

Guess so... if you value where Fidelity puts its offices?  I mean, that's nice if you work for them.  Otherwise, it's just lame.

[Hometown]

Well Tulsa has Oklahoma's wealthiest zip code.  And there are certainly some rich folks supporting those estates over by Philbrook.  But you are right.  Many Tulsans have very little resources.  I do think it is a major failing of Tulsa's that her job creation strategies have not produced much.  And it is dumbfounding and sad that the anti-union forces have prevailed in a state where workers are so clearly in need of some protections.  Yes the number of minority and White folks living in poverty in Tulsa is quite discouraging.

My sense is that Tulsa is still led by the same old rich families and that they are second tier players in the industries they inhabit and that they as a group have failed Tulsa.  The Republicans have failed Tulsa and the Oil Industry has failed Tulsa.

But that's not the half of Tulsa.  Tulsa is big and complex and feisty and muscular and always in motion.  She's a town full of charming sweet talkers and men in big fat trucks.  I've never seen another town exactly like her.

[snopes]

Hometown, you impress me as an intelligent, courteous, and thoughtful person and your discourse with Davaz certainly indicates that you would like some earnest discussion on the issue.

I do think that what you are either forgetting (or more than likely just trying to ignore) is that Davaz is just an arrogant, close-minded person that is typical of many Texans.

Take it from me, I have lived in Texas and although many Texans are fantastic people (the majority are), the ignorant and arrogant attitude regarding anything outside of Texas, and ESPECIALLY Oklahoma is astounding.

Many years ago as a five-year employee of a pharmaceutical company in the DFW metroplex, I announced that I was finally returning to Tulsa, Oklahoma. At a going away luncheon, two of the older, big-haired ladies typical of that area could bite their tongues no longer as they said the following:

"You're going to TULSA!!?? Why on earth would ANYBODY go up there?"

The other chimed in, "It's nothing but dirt farms and flat!"

Needless to say, I set them all straight.

It's obvious that these two dullards had NEVER been to Tulsa or even looked it up in an encyclopedia (Internet was in its infancy). But, they had no problem whatsoever painting Tulsa in such a bad light in front of my coworkers and friends. Aside from their ignorance, their disrespect to a departing coworker was astounding. But that didn't matter, I was leaving TEXAS for OKLAHOMA, and I had to have a screw loose.

And to boot, these comments were from two people that have lived their entire lives in the Dallas/Ft. Worth metroplex, which is one of the flattest, most unremarkable areas in terms of geography and topography in the US. Sure, they have a Nordstroms on every corner but good lord, how shallow is your life if that is one of its focal points?

One more thing, although Davaz may "say" that he is from Tulsa, I seriously doubt that is the case. His attitude is that of many Texans, especially those from the areas of Houston, DFW, and Austin. BTW, I have found in my travels that San Antonio people aren't so arrogant.

[tulitlikeitis]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Well Tulsa has Oklahoma's wealthiest zip code.  And there are certainly some rich folks supporting those estates over by Philbrook.  But you are right.  Many Tulsans have very little resources.  I do think it is a major failing of Tulsa's that her job creation strategies have not produced much.  And it is dumbfounding and sad that the anti-union forces have prevailed in a state where workers are so clearly in need of some protections.  Yes the number of minority and White folks living in poverty in Tulsa is quite discouraging.

My sense is that Tulsa is still led by the same old rich families and that they are second tier players in the industries they inhabit and that they as a group have failed Tulsa.  The Republicans have failed Tulsa and the Oil Industry has failed Tulsa.

But that's not the half of Tulsa.  Tulsa is big and complex and feisty and muscular and always in motion.  She's a town full of charming sweet talkers and men in big fat trucks.  I've never seen another town exactly like her.

Hometown – you posted a thoughtful note and I will try and post an equally thoughtful response.

I really don't know what is wrong with Tulsa but at this stage of my life, I neither have the time nor the inclination to wait for an upturn. Tulsa's problems have been a long time in the making and will require a long time to mend ... if ever.

From a resource perspective, in any city you have about five groups as noted below:

1.   Wealthy
2.   Upper Middle Class Professional
3.   Middle Class
4.   Lower Middle Class
5.   Poor

Due a national trend of manufacturing job loss and a local trend of energy company loss, the ranks of Tiers 2 and 3 have been decimated in Tulsa. That is not to say that they are gone completely but are seriously reduced. For Tulsa, that now leaves three predominant groups:

1.   Wealthy
2.   Lower Middle Class
3.   Poor

We know this to be true ... one can go on the streets and see it every day. Why is there no change? Because the wealthy want nothing to change (particularly the Tulsa wealthy) and the other two groups have no resources to drive change. It is the upper middle class professionals in most cities that drive change. They are the ones that rehab inner city neighborhoods, discover trendy restaurants and buy new BMW's at 50k$ a whack.

To someone with resources, Tulsa is not an attractive place. The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak. Of course, there is terrible poverty in any city ... Houston, LA, NYC, etc. The problem is that in Tulsa it seems in your face wherever you turn.

Like I said ... I came, looked around and did not like what I saw and left. I am not the only one ... the so-called "brain-drain" at the two big state schools continues unabated. They know the reality even if the cheerleaders on this board refuse to admit it.

[azbadpuppy]

quote:Originally posted by tulitlikeitis

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Well Tulsa has Oklahoma's wealthiest zip code.  And there are certainly some rich folks supporting those estates over by Philbrook.  But you are right.  Many Tulsans have very little resources.  I do think it is a major failing of Tulsa's that her job creation strategies have not produced much.  And it is dumbfounding and sad that the anti-union forces have prevailed in a state where workers are so clearly in need of some protections.  Yes the number of minority and White folks living in poverty in Tulsa is quite discouraging.

My sense is that Tulsa is still led by the same old rich families and that they are second tier players in the industries they inhabit and that they as a group have failed Tulsa.  The Republicans have failed Tulsa and the Oil Industry has failed Tulsa.

But that's not the half of Tulsa.  Tulsa is big and complex and feisty and muscular and always in motion.  She's a town full of charming sweet talkers and men in big fat trucks.  I've never seen another town exactly like her.

Hometown – you posted a thoughtful note and I will try and post an equally thoughtful response.

I really don't know what is wrong with Tulsa but at this stage of my life, I neither have the time nor the inclination to wait for an upturn. Tulsa's problems have been a long time in the making and will require a long time to mend ... if ever.

From a resource perspective, in any city you have about five groups as noted below:

1.   Wealthy
2.   Upper Middle Class Professional
3.   Middle Class
4.   Lower Middle Class
5.   Poor

Due a national trend of manufacturing job loss and a local trend of energy company loss, the ranks of Tiers 2 and 3 have been decimated in Tulsa. That is not to say that they are gone completely but are seriously reduced. For Tulsa, that now leaves three predominant groups:

1.   Wealthy
2.   Lower Middle Class
3.   Poor

We know this to be true ... one can go on the streets and see it every day. Why is there no change? Because the wealthy want nothing to change (particularly the Tulsa wealthy) and the other two groups have no resources to drive change. It is the upper middle class professionals in most cities that drive change. They are the ones that rehab inner city neighborhoods, discover trendy restaurants and buy new BMW's at 50k$ a whack.

To someone with resources, Tulsa is not an attractive place. The hardscrabble poverty in Oklahoma is particularly bleak. Of course, there is terrible poverty in any city ... Houston, LA, NYC, etc. The problem is that in Tulsa it seems in your face wherever you turn.

Like I said ... I came, looked around and did not like what I saw and left. I am not the only one ... the so-called "brain-drain" at the two big state schools continues unabated. They know the reality even if the cheerleaders on this board refuse to admit it.

By percentage, Texas is the 5th poorest state in the country (16.4% of the population living in poverty compared to 12.6% in OK)

Also the per capita personal income level is only $3000 difference between TX and OK, both being below the national average:

http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0854972.html

Texas also ranked in the top 10 states with highest percentage of children living in poverty (Oklahoma did not):

http://www.usccb.org/cchd/povertyusa/povfact11.shtml

Lastly, none of the nations top 100 wealthiest zip codes are in TX:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1377315/posts

But the top 3 poorest zip codes are:

http://www.usccb.org/cchd/povertyusa/povfact5.shtml

Get over yourself.