Parking Lot for Bells? Reaaaaaallllly?

[TheArtist]

Ooops sounds like Robby had better get busy looking for a wrecking ball and a mess of dump trucks really quick like if thats the case. Robby is a big boy I am sure he was aware of what was in the contract when he signed it and as a studious business man, responsibly has contingency plans in place.

If its the tax payer dollars it would take to remove the stuff that you are worried about, I am sure we could sell off a lot of that stuff or at least sell it off for scrap metal then sue for any remaning cost.

[SJC TUL]

There's no reason to jump to the conclusion already that Bell's assets are to be demolished.  The sky ride is an underappreciated rare treasure and a Tulsa landmark that should remain where it is.  It is frequently reported to be the biggest money-making ride at the fair, year after year.

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by SJC TUL

There's no reason to jump to the conclusion already that Bell's assets are to be demolished.  The sky ride is an underappreciated rare treasure and a Tulsa landmark that should remain where it is.  It is frequently reported to be the biggest money-making ride at the fair, year after year.

It is a shame - a true tragedy - that we cannot finnagle some way to save Zingo and the Sky Ride.  If our County Commission is that pathetic, we need to recall them.

[Sangria]

Hmmmm.... it might not be a county issue for long.... not if the fairgrounds get annexed into the city of Tulsa.

They are looking into how much money this would cost the tax payers. I want to know when "How much it will cost the tax payers" became important? [}:)]

Concider this: If it is annexed, the next time it needs an upgrade or something done - it will be on the CITY taxpayers alone and not the entire county.....

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I think Bells has been stagnating where it is and having it move may just be the thing to kick Robby into gear and better the park.  

It may put fresh energy and interest into the park by having it move.  If it succeeds and grows in one of the suburbs that will be better for Tulsa than having the park slowly rust and fall apart where it is.  

To have a good, clean, prospering amusement park would be good for the whole area.  Perhaps a business partner would add an influx of money, and much needed drive, creativity and vision for the park as well.



But back to the parking lol. Werent there plans for the expo to have a second level parking garage?  Would having the bells space then negate having to spend the money on building it?

If you were in Bells' position, I rather doubt you would have done much differently.  Is any business really going to invest a lot of money in their business when they have not been able until very recently to reach agreement with the neighborhood allowing for a necessary expansion?  And further, it turns out, when your lease is nearing expiration, and you have a County Board of Commissioners who seem intent on running you out at the end of your lease?

And back to the parking issue.  Wouldn't the lease money from Bell's pay for or at least help to pay for a parking structure?

This whole mess at the fairgrounds is very disappointing.  Just when it starts to look like Tulsa might finally be turning a corner... or at least approaching the corner and thinking about turning... we have another example of incredibly bad leadership thrown in our faces.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I think Bells has been stagnating where it is and having it move may just be the thing to kick Robby into gear and better the park.  

It may put fresh energy and interest into the park by having it move.  If it succeeds and grows in one of the suburbs that will be better for Tulsa than having the park slowly rust and fall apart where it is.  

To have a good, clean, prospering amusement park would be good for the whole area.  Perhaps a business partner would add an influx of money, and much needed drive, creativity and vision for the park as well.



But back to the parking lol. Werent there plans for the expo to have a second level parking garage?  Would having the bells space then negate having to spend the money on building it?

If you were in Bells' position, I rather doubt you would have done much differently.  Is any business really going to invest a lot of money in their business when they have not been able until very recently to reach agreement with the neighborhood allowing for a necessary expansion?  And further, it turns out, when your lease is nearing expiration, and you have a County Board of Commissioners who seem intent on running you out at the end of your lease?

And back to the parking issue.  Wouldn't the lease money from Bell's pay for or at least help to pay for a parking structure?

This whole mess at the fairgrounds is very disappointing.  Just when it starts to look like Tulsa might finally be turning a corner... or at least approaching the corner and thinking about turning... we have another example of incredibly bad leadership thrown in our faces.

I think the "agreement with the neighborhood" thing is a prime example of how Robby has no creative vision.  It took him 11 years to figure out he could build the coaster on the other side of the park? Puleeze. Its sad that someone could be so moronic it would take them that long to figure something like that out. No creative genius this Robby Bell.  

As for worrying about being run out, the reason he has to worry is because they see Bells as being in such a bad state of affairs.  If Bells were up to snuff and playing a higher quality game they would probably be glad to see them stay.

Bells has only gotten worse since I was a kid, not better.

Bells has continually paraded "new improvements coming" that have never happened.  Remember all the nifty drawings of the western style theme they were supposed to do the park in? All the stories in the paper and in the news about it?  

Thats just one example of something that was said would happen but didn't.  This pattern of improvements that never happened combined with the reality of a place that has only gotten worse, has left many people like myself, and probably those commissioners, extremely frustrated and disappointed.  

Bells would get everyone excited each spring, just as they were opening for the season, (Coincidence of timing or a trick to get free advertising from the tv news and paper each opening season?) by parading out some new thing that they were wanting to do.  Then it would never happen.

How many times does this have to happen before one gets suspicious?  How many times does one get their hopes up only to see them dashed, before you get jaded and turn to disbelief?

Enough is enough.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by AMP

Now motorsports is allowed at Expo Square, but only Indoors with all the doors and windows shut so the neighbors won't be disturbed by a little noise.  I recall they didn't make Garth Brooks play indoors when he performed at Driller's Stadium.

Holding the races indoors at the Exposition Building does not lessen the noise.  I live down off of Yale at 26th Street and every year when they have that Chili Bowl racing thing, I can hear the engines racing loud and clear at my house, with all my doors and windows closed.  It only happens once a year for a few days, so I just shrug it off.  But if I can hear it so loud at my house a half mile away, I can't imagine what the noise must be like for the people that live just across 21st street, or on Indianapolis to the west.
And I could hear Garth and other Driller Stadium events at my house too, but it is not often enough to be much of a nuisance to me.  What I don't like are the frequent fireworks in the summer for Driller's games.  Sends my pets into nervous fits.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

Bell's third generation owner has brought all this upon himself.

When you let everything fall apart, the landlord should not renew your lease.

I was talking about this at a party over the weekend and I was amazed at how many people said they loved Bell's, but had not been there for years. They had some memory of it being fun, but had not seen it in the current state of disrepair. One guy said that he went last summer so his kids could drive the little cars and that only three cars out of a dozen were actually working. He asked the person working and they said the others were cannabilized to keep those three running.

Moving will be the best thing for Bell's and the fairgrounds.

I agree 100%.  I am a middle-aged, single male with no children, but I used to enjoy going to Bell's on occasion with friends to play miniature golf and enjoy nice weather.  The last time I went to Bell's was just after they instituted a $1 admission fee, so it must be at least 10 years ago.

The golf course was still open, but it was a wreck.  All the old lovely water features were dried up and full of dead leaves and trash, the turf was worn out and full of holes, none of the mechanical hazards functioned, etc.  As I left that day, I thought to myself that that was my last visit to Bell's, and it was.

Sure they spent a lot of money on the Mind Melt ride, but they have obviously spent zilch on general upkeep and keeping the place an attractive recreation spot for people of all ages.  Zingo has been there since 1968, so I am sure the Bell family has recouped their investment on that one.  Unless they have a solid, formal plan to upgrade and beautify the park, with tangible results, I say the Expo Square board has made the right decision.

[AMP]

Kart Before the Horse - Buyer Beware

Just wondering why the developers would build residential near the County Fair Grounds to begin with, and second why would you buy a home so close to the Fair Grounds knowing there are events that have noise related equipment performing?  Again we go back to VISION 2025 and why they did not consider relocating the entire Facility to an appropriate location.

Must of been the same planners that allowed residential to be built on the flight path of Tulsa International Airport.

Noise problems sound more like lack of planning initially by the Zoning commission than the problem of the Fair Grounds or the event producers.  Home builders and home buyers must of known of the noise levels with regard to a Fair Grounds that has a 3/8 mile racetrack.

A dozen other cities Fair Grounds I have visited have either retail commercial buildings surrounding their Fair Grounds or Industrial areas. Not sure if the Fairgrounds or the surrounding buildings came first, but one would think the Fairgrounds occupied the space first.  Springfield, Illinois has one of the nicest well planned Fairgrounds I have visited.  Del Mar, California is another well thought out facility. Fiesta Texas is located in an old Rock Quarry, it rocks.

For the future the County/City should visit other States facilities and look at what works prior to jumping in with out planning ahead.  

I asked Vision 2025 at a couple of meetings what the dimensions of the floor in the new Tulsa arena was, and what the loading dock door dimensions werem and load limit of the floor were, but no one seemed to have the answer and never contacted me with the data.  

Perhaps moving the entire Fairgrounds to a larger and more suitable location would make more sense than just moving Bells.

What ever happens, it would be wise to invite every firm that has produced shows at the various venues in the area to attend and have input from them as to their requirements.  

Consultative information gathering of specific specs by end users seems only logical prior to hiring an architect.
   
Regarding maintenance of facilities, I recall the Fairgrounds seeking funding from a $1.00 sur-charge on tickets to charging for parking and a request of funds from the Tourist taxes for required maintenance of the facility.   The Vision 2025 funding helped to up-grade existing buildings and to construct new buildings there.  

Since majority of the buildings and facilities such as tbe Grand Stands and the Racetrack, Pavillion and the IPE Building that were on Expo Square prior to their requests for funding were either donated or provided by private businesses and no tax dollars or Fairgrounds funds went to construct them.  

Correct me, but I do not believe the Fair Grounds paid for any improvements from the rent of private facilities there.  So where then did the $12,000,000 that Bell's paid in rent go?  For Maintenance?  

Or the $5,000,000 each year off the gate fee alone at the State Fair.  

Also add up the other tenants, Drillers, Big Splash, OSU Extension office, City/County Health Department, Armory when it paid rent. Anyone have a list of where all those revenues went?  

If the majority of those funds were used for maintenance, the Fairgrounds must of missed maintaning the Bells area according to those that say it is in dis-repair.  And why was it they had to seek additional funding for maintenance a few years ago?  

Seems a few dollars are not accounted for, could be wrong but I just don't see it costing over a Million dollars per year in maintenance costs for the small area of land the Fairgrounds occupies.  

Someone explain the accounting procedures please.

[Markk]

Boo, hoo.  People need to take off their rose colored glasses and realize that the park is a dump.  It could be nice, if Robbie Bell had invested money to clean it up and keep it clean.  Instead he is now spending his time rambling on and on about how this whole thing is mysterious to him.

[AMP]

Considering the facts regarding Expo Square and the Bell's lease were not released until a few days after the Election, it seems only resonable to entertain a RECALL of everyone that was on the ballot that is involved in these decisions.

JMHO

[AMP]

Markk, have to agree with to to a degree.  

Major problem with Tulsa is the low wages, lay offs and lack of gainfull positions in the market.  Just ask Warren, he has pinpointed the problem regarding lack of Medical Insurance and low wages for his increased costs at St Francis Hospital.  Minimum wage = minmum results, and in more than one area.

Main reason venues, events, businesses that require a higher price for tickets cannot do business here, or run at deficit in specific areas.  

Same reasons you do not see major league sporting clubs here or a NASCAR tack, or for that matter any type of an operating Dirt Track located in Tulsa.  

Tulsa Speedway, Eastland Mall are other victims of the failing economy in Tulsa.  

After paying 40% increase in energy, State Income Tax, Turnpike fees and outrageous property taxes and insurance premiums, near 10% tax on food, pharmacuticals, clothing and other essentials it is no wonder people are broke as a joke and diving deeper into debt every month.  

Would be interesting to see how many people with Oklahoma drivers licenses changed them to other states in the past 4 years, and what states they moved to.

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by Markk

Boo, hoo.  People need to take off their rose colored glasses and realize that the park is a dump.  It could be nice, if Robbie Bell had invested money to clean it up and keep it clean.  Instead he is now spending his time rambling on and on about how this whole thing is mysterious to him.

All I am saying is give Zingo a chance . . .  The park is in disrepair, no doubt, but why does Zingo have to go?  Cannot we agree to save Zingo?

[AMP]

The orginal ZINGO Roller Coaster of which the ZINGO at Bell's was named after.  

The first Zingo which was located in Crystal City Amusement Park West of, Tulsa no longer thrills riders of all ages.



Anyone remember the Trampoline Pits at Bell's or the Alley Oop metal cage self propelled swing contraption that Bell Senior built?

Guess most kids today are connected to the operators end of some overpriced Video Game instead of excerising by running, jumping and operating self propelled equipment at an Amusement Park.

[perspicuity85]

AMP- you brought up some interesting points.  I agree- the whole fairgrounds is in a terrible location.  What were developers thinking when they built homes right on the fairgrounds' back porch?  And I get really sick of hearing the redidents' woes.  Seriously, who in their right mind plans on living in a quiet neighborhood right next door to  a county fairgrounds?  Not to mention the smell of farm animals during the fair.  Unfortunately it looks like the fairgrounds will be at its current location for a long time based on their funding from Vision 2025.  But without Bell's and likely Drillers Stadium, they will quickly start to resemble the fairgrounds of any other county fairgrounds in some small town in Oklahoma.  I don't care how much revenue some redneck cattle show generates- it doesn't belong in Tulsa.  Robby Bell ought to sell his equipment to another amusement park operator who can connect Bell's with Big Splash and the horse racing track, possibly making a real attraction.  The fairgrounds should find a philanthropist who can help them buy out some of the homes closest to the area and build a buffer between the left over homes and the fairgrounds.  If the Drillers move, the stadium could be modified into an outdoor theatre mixed with some restaurant/clubs and small retail stores.  Without Bell's the State Fair will likely lose serious revenue dollars.  The only reason the Fair was ever fun was beause the midway and Bell's, two mediocre entities, combined together to make something kind of cool.  Without drastic new direction and foresight, the fairgrounds and the Tulsa State Fair will be a complete waste of space- and more importantly- money.