Let's talk about the east end of downtown

[aoxamaxoa]

Philbrook? You have to explain Philbrook?
Hicks.....

[dsjeffries]

quote:Even people, especially younger ones for some reason, who have lived here most of their life, seem to have no idea of what midtown or downtown has to offer.

I encounter this a lot, but for the most part, it's the adults that I mention it to who have no clue what or where Philbrook is.  Kids get out, drive around and explore, and most people my age that I know, even if they haven't been to an exhibit there, know what and where it is...  I remember taking field trips to Philbrook throughout elementary school--we went at least three times...

I read somewhere that at some point before the early thirties, the 'explore' mode in most people dies off as they settle into whatever they call their own, and if they hadn't been there before that time (assuming they'd lived here their whole life), they most likely won't ever go.  It's the same with foods, music and decorating:  people become accustomed to certain tastes and never branch out.

I think Philbrook is like KWGS (89.5 FM):  If you don't know it and never stumble upon it, then chances are you didn't even know it existed; but once you've been there, you'll keep going back, over and over and over again... because it's amazing.

[jdb]

quote:Originally posted by DScott28604

I read somewhere that at some point before the early thirties, the 'explore' mode in most people dies off...

Bull, I am 54 and I roam around constantly.
I love exploring new places, meeting new people, and without letting the cat out of the bag, there happens to be many of us out there exploring all the time.
Sure, sometimes it's to find a missing key ring, a certain road, maybe the way back into town, and a whole lot when my TomTom goes on the fritz - but it's all exploring!
Hell, I spend so much time exploring my family makes me wear this bracelet on my wrist which has my name and address on it.

jdb

[Renaissance]

I think we've hit upon why it's necessary for a district to have "destination" status.  Once there's a buzz about a certain part of town, people actively seek it out.  Bricktown is the prime local example.  I'm not suggesting that Tulsa emulate the Bricktown development - there's plenty to disagree with there - but it's certainly a destination for the entire OKC metro area.  I think that's what people in Tulsa crave, whether they know it or not: one "it" zone to pull people together.

I also think this is why a stadium is so important to a development like this.  It's a simple symbol of the destination and it works for everyone.  Don't drink?  Don't like expensive dinners?  Doesn't matter - you can still participate in the excitement for the cost of a general admission seat.  People in the 'burbs may not understand why Philbrook is that exciting, they may not share our love for dense streetscapes, but everybody loves baseball.  That's why a stadium is so important, more important than an arena, even, to get people of all stripes downtown.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by Floyd

I think we've hit upon why it's necessary for a district to have "destination" status.  Once there's a buzz about a certain part of town, people actively seek it out.  Bricktown is the prime local example.  I'm not suggesting that Tulsa emulate the Bricktown development - there's plenty to disagree with there - but it's certainly a destination for the entire OKC metro area.  I think that's what people in Tulsa crave, whether they know it or not: one "it" zone to pull people together.

I also think this is why a stadium is so important to a development like this.  It's a simple symbol of the destination and it works for everyone.  Don't drink?  Don't like expensive dinners?  Doesn't matter - you can still participate in the excitement for the cost of a general admission seat.  People in the 'burbs may not understand why Philbrook is that exciting, they may not share our love for dense streetscapes, but everybody loves baseball.  That's why a stadium is so important, more important than an arena, even, to get people of all stripes downtown.

Totally agree.  And that is part of why this east end proposal is so much more exciting and would be so much more beneficial to the city than The Channels could ever hope to be.

[TheArtist]

You know, if we get that East End development and something good along the river, plus continued development of Brookside, Cherry Street, the Utica area, and other parts of downtown.  This city will rock.

When someone comes to town they will see and experience a full fledged city.

Would be so nice to hear more of... This is really nice. not, Its got potential.  lol

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

You know, if we get that East End development and something good along the river, plus continued development of Brookside, Cherry Street, the Utica area, and other parts of downtown.  This city will rock.

When someone comes to town they will see and experience a full fledged city.

Would be so nice to hear more of... This is really nice. not, Its got potential.  lol

I agree whole-heartedly.  If the East End fully reaces its potential, the other entertainment districts of Tulsa will hopefully team together to compete with the East End.  The blocks in between the East End and Cherry St., or especially between the East End and the Blue Dome should see rising property values and will hopefully enhance the East End further by merging two entertainment districts into one.  Intelligent zoning regulations and urban design should be sought to allow the Blue Dome and East End to merge into a mega-entertainment zone while still maintaining a separate identity.

[SXSW]

The East End doesn't compete with the Blue Dome, it complements it.  Having potentially 3 hotels, 800 residential units, and a number of new retail shops and restaurants, not to mention the ballpark, is great for downtown.  Blue Dome is the "entertainment" district of Tulsa with a good concentration of the city's bars and clubs.  Brookside is the only area that comes close (and right now it is a more popular district), with SoBo not far behind.  But if the East End brings restaurants (which downtown really needs) and shops that's more people who would stick around to go to bars/clubs, not to mention the out-of-town visitors the hotels in the area would bring.  Plus just having more development, be it lofts, offices, etc., will help make the area safer.

[Kenosha]

AutoZone Park in Memphis. Seems like a similar concept...for a AAA team.

[jdb]

quote:Originally posted by PRH


It's a lot of hot air and speculation, something Tulsa's seen plenty of in the last few years.

It is more than "hot air" but your correct about "speculation" playing a large part.

IMO, the downfall or demise of the concept will hinge on the lack of demand for a project of this scope and size with our current population and it's suburban mindset.

Not enough cool people, eh?

"0ne can put a horse behind his cart and still get to market: but if the cart is empty, what's the point?" - jdb

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by jdb


It is more than "hot air" but your correct about "speculation" playing a large part.

Exactly.  They've closed on at least one parcel, so something's happening.  It's just a matter of "what," "how big," and "how fast."

[jdb]

"...They've closed on at least one parcel..." - Floyd

Sure, the easy piece of the puzzle to flip.

[swake]

They also reportedly have a contract to buy (but have not closed) on the Nordam site, which is the majority of the land needed for the project.

This project seems very close, but needs the Driller's to agree to move before it can become the "real deal".

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by PRH

I'm not convinced that this development will ever happen.

It's a lot of hot air and speculation, something Tulsa's seen plenty of in the last few years.

We'll soon forget about it.

I'll say one thing -- you'll either look like a prophet or be spectacularly wrong. No offense, but I'm hoping it's the latter.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

quote:Originally posted by aoxamaxoa

Floyd
There are not enough drinkers to support all the current establishments.

There are 2 reasons for this:
1) I grew up in South Tulsa, where almost half the people I went to high school with were not born in Tulsa.  Their parents weren't from here, and knew nothing of the city except for its generic retail around 71st st.  I, however, had several friends that lived in Midtown, and I frequently hung out around Midtown in high school.  One weekend when I was home from college I found some of my former high school classmates going out for a drink at a TGI Friday's.  I immediately wisked them off to Brookside and and the Blue Dome bars.  Most of them had never heard of any of them, and were surprised to learn that Tulsa actually had places like that.  There are thousands of college-aged people turning 21 every day that grew up in a Tulsa suburban area.  Most of them have never heard of the Blue Dome District.  I get this a lot: "dude, isn't that in Dallas?"

2) Most people from Tulsa don't stay here.  Every year, thousands of college graduates that grew up in Tulsa look for a job somewhere else.  They grew up in the suburbs where they heard dangerous tales of the Tulsa downtown- a crime-riddled cesspool of dispair!

A trendy, well developed area like the East End can succeed in Tulsa and is in high demand.  Tulsa needs a true entertainment destination.  Brookside and Cherry Street are the closest things we have now- and are not bad, but are not enough.  Cities much smaller than Tulsa are passing it up quickly.  

Effective marketing will play a huge role.  If Global can effectively attract quality establishments and investors, the East End will be a very nice culture zone.  The city needs to spread the word to the entire metro area.  On a given weekend in the ideal East End, people will be coming from every part of Tulsa metro, NW Arkansas, SW Missouri, Wichita, and multiple other places in Oklahoma.  A lot people from Wichita, NW Arkansas, and TULSA go to Dallas or KC for a weekend getaway.  Not that the East End will propel Tulsa into offering more entertainment than Dallas or KC, but it has the potential to certainly bring a lot of those weekenders to T-Town.