McBirney Mansion

[TheArtist]

From the renderings I have seen, I like the look of this hotel.  The scale is decent, the style is perfect.  When I hear some say that perhaps a compromise could be made to have less rooms, I again look at the rendering and it doesn't look "overly huge".  

I also think its a fine place for the hotel.  There are large apartment complexes near there along riverside. My feel is that the hotel is on the Riverside Drive side of things where the "traffic" would be and where it would be nice to have other structures of that scale, possibly have some with restaurants or shops on the street level floors. And the Mansion itself is on the neighborhood side.  

A QT by Philbrook, a concrete plant in Maple Ridge?  If the QT looked like an Italian villa or large home, had unobtrusive signage, sure, why not?  Same with the concrete plant, though not sure if the dust or noise issues could be worked out.[] But even both of these examples aren't the best comparisons.  The hotel will be on an arterial main street not on the inside of the neighborhood.  To me Riverside Drive is a great place for a structure of the size, look, and use this hotel will be. Sure we could wish it were on another part of Riverside. But hey its their idea and their dream and their penny.

Guess its my artist bias coming through. I don't care what it is as long as it looks good.[8D]

I remember walking along the Champs Elysees in Paris.  Recognized as one of the most beautiful streets in the world. I remember being suprised as I walked by one beautiful old building made of carved stone and realizing it was a car dealership.  You could see cars in each of the windows several stories up. Right next door was a large outdoor restaurant, nearby was gay club, a Virgin Mega Store you walked in to a large foyer several stories high with marble floors, staircase that spiraled up on both sides large chandeliers, there were offices, living quarters, clothes stores, grocery stores, you name it, it was there.  But looking down the street the buildings were all similar height and beautiful.  

Again here is what that area of the River could look like some day. Just imagine that large building on the lower left, as the McBirney Mansion Hotel. []

[Kiah]

quote:Originally posted by Bledsoe

I say again, (no one seems to be responding to this issue), you cannot just look at this project with blinders own. (sic)

Honestly, I think you're the one looking at it with blinders on.  You're only talking about worst-case scenarios and slippery slopes.  This is a real opportunity for world-class riverfront (not interior neighborhood) development.  Just what do you want for the riverfront, if not some variation on this?

quote:Originally posted by Bledsoe

If this is approved we should perhaps just junk the whole zoning code....

Finally, an area of agreement.

That's really my point, the current zoning code (and the auto-centric, one-size-fits-all, strict segregation of uses on which it's based, and which you seem to be promoting) has very little relevance in an infill scenario, for a city that just turned 100 and has built out its cheap and easy greenfields.  I hope the comprehensive plan update will tackle these tough issues head-on.

quote:Originally posted by Bledsoe

with a QT right across from Philbrook

Have you ever lived in a real city, where a corner convenience store or neighborhood market is an actual amenity?  Just because we've done such a poor job of integrating business into our neighborhoods (because of the prevailing attitude you're expressing -- "keep them driving distance away from me"), doesn't mean we're doomed to continue doing it that way.  It's only inevitable if we concede that it's so.

I don't concede it.  Here's a new business venture -- The Philbrook QT:



Oops.  It seems there's a residence above that store.  Two "uses" in one "zone."  Sorry, can't have that.  Our zoning code strictly forbids it.  If we allow it here, what's next?  Dancing?

[akupetsky]

quote:Originally posted by Kiah

quote:Originally posted by akupetsky

This is a bit large.

Then it seems to me the appropriate response would be 'Could the design be modified to be more compatible?' not 'Oh hell no, no commercial development in a residential neighborhood.'

As I said before, I am not saying no commercial.  Yes, there are NIMBY's, but in my experience, there are just as many developers who say, it's my property, I'll do whatever I want.

I don't have a lot of sympathy for this developer--he/she knew when they bought the property it had a preservation easement.  If they don't know what that means, they have no business developing a hotel.  Again, they are increasing the size of this building almost 10 fold.  If you read the National Park Services criteria for rehabilitation, this simply does not fit.

I am not a Riverview resident, but I would certainly recommend that the developer come back with a modest proposal, a small addition that is seperate from the main building, does not dwarf the original historic structure (something along the same scale as the original 12,000 square feet--nothing near the 100,000), and preserves a substantial portion of the grounds (which are historic in themselves).  I would think in terms of a larger B&B, and less in terms of a small hotel.

[Kiah]

I would love for that to be the view from, say, the top of Tulsa Regional Medical Center in 50 years (when I'll probably be a permanent resident of the hospital).

[ky]

[)]who cares what they do with it it doesnt make me rich!!!

[CU08]

There seems to be a lot of debate over whether the developers can "do this right" or not, but not much discussion on who the developers are. The three partners in this endeavor are George Warde, Jim Seawright, and Jack Lee. All three are 70+ years of age, but I only seem to be able to find past information on George Warde who was once president and COO of American Airlines.

Who are the other developers? Are they Tulsa natives? Do they even live in Tulsa now (I think Warde lives out in Vinita)?

I think a lot can be learned if we look at the businessmen involved. If they live in neighborhoods like Riverview, then they might have more empathy for the residents. If we know more about them then we may have a better idea if they want to make this place "better than the Mayo" or just better for their wallets.

Awaiting your responses.

[Renaissance]

There seems to be a lot of crying out for a more "moderate" project.  It's worth pointing out that the scale of this project is actually pretty modest.  80 rooms is not huge by any stretch.  It's just enough for a large wedding, or for a couple of smaller ones.  Again, I'll point out the Mansion at Turtle Creek in Dallas as a perfect example of what this could be.  It's is a converted mansion in the Turtle Creek neighborhood, has 143 rooms, and is the nicest restaraunt in town.  I lived three blocks away during one summer in Dallas and I can tell you for certain that the traffic was not a problem and it did not bring congestion or noise to the area.  In fact, it brough upscale visitors to a somewhat hidden upscale part of Dallas.  We might like that for Riverview, hm?

My point is, they're not plopping down a Doubletree.  They're filling in empty space with a small development that will barely be noticeable but will very much benefit the neighborhood.

[Rico]

This thread gets fairly strange when you drive by the McBirney and Peter Walters has "FOR SALE" signs all around....

Could this whole thing be a method to proffer a postulation of the Peter Walters version of a Trout line.?

Or has Peter found a niche in a slowing market to move a sizable property for profit..?

Well Pete for someone short in stature if you can make people believe this may be a Giant... More Power to You..!

Of course mentioning the Channels in your sales pitch would have helped....

my bad... the Channels were the ones that postulated earlier in the season..



Disclaimer:
The above may or may not have any basis in the truth.. The U.S. Customs placed a HOLD on all imports from Canada around December the 18th....
The American version of the Medicine, I take, is clearly inferior and geared more towards someone that enjoys drugs.
any day now my shipment will come in.... [}:)]

[PonderInc]

I received the following invitation via email:

McBirney Mansion Open House

Please join Jim Seawright and George Warde for an open house presentation of their plans for the McBirney Mansion

Thursday, February 8, 2007
5:30 & 7:00 pm

McBirney Mansion
1414 S. Galveston
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74127

[aoxamaxoa]

I like the idea but don't look for it to spur more commercial development close by. It is up against the river....

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by PonderInc

I received the following invitation via email:

McBirney Mansion Open House

Please join Jim Seawright and George Warde for an open house presentation of their plans for the McBirney Mansion

Thursday, February 8, 2007
5:30 & 7:00 pm

McBirney Mansion
1414 S. Galveston
Tulsa, Oklahoma 74127

Let us know how this went... and your opinion of what they have.....

[}:)]

[TheArtist]

Went to the meeting and met the owners.  They apparently closed on the property last Wednesday.  Originally I had liked the proposal over all, but had voiced serious reservations about a few things.  My main concern was with the layout and preservation of the mansion and that the rooms not be "reconfigured".  I had also not really liked the skyway that connected the hotel with the mansion.  Others had voiced concern about the spring.  Before the meeting one of the speakers representing the owners came up to me and mentioned that they had read what I had said on the TN forum.

During the presentation I noticed the skywalk was no longer there on the updated rendering and one of the first things mentioned was that the mansion was to be maintained and refurbished as authentically as possible and that no rooms were to be reconfigured, they would remain the same size and with as much of the authentic details as possible.  [] It does appear that they are flexible and very willing to work to address peoples concerns as much as they can and still get the project built.

They showed how the spring was now deteriorated, was over grown and had stagnant pools, and how they hoped to clean it up so that when the drout was over it would once again flow as it used to.  In the pics they showed you could see that the spring had been "enhanced" in the past with decorative stones and such.  In the new plans it appeared that they would take what had been done before, upgrade it and extend that up to the source of the spring as well.

What most impressed me was how the described what they were trying to create for Tulsa.  They wanted to create for Tulsa a high quality, high end, hotel and 2 restaurants. One restaurant in the basement level of the mansion itself and one restaurant in the hotel with a patio area looking out over the river. They want both the hotel and restaurant in the mansion to be able to attain a 5 star rating.  The style and materials would try to be equal to that of the original mansion as much as possible.  They mentioned that the mansion was definitely a rarity in its quality. I got the impression that they were really wanting to do this FOR Tulsa, and hoped that it would be an asset to the city. They mentioned that Tulsa was missing the type of development they were wanting to create and spoke of how many businessmen and people from Europe expected and wanted to stay in high end hotels with the kind of amenities and style that was going to be provided.  The rooms would go for around 500 a night and up (if I remember correctly)and would start at 600sq ft and go up to 1200 sq ft. or 1600 don't remember exactly lol.  It was hoped that this hotel would have synergies with the new arena and whatever river development would happen.  They seemed very upbeat and positive that things were going to really start to change in Tulsa. They hoped that this would be one more positive piece, with each helping the other make Tulsa a quality destination.  

The general feel of the audience seemed to be quite positive.  There were a few people that you could definitely tell had some pointed questions.  The guy behind me apparently lived just across the street from the mansion, asked about half the questions and didn't seem too happy. lol But all in all a lot of people seemed very excited about it and said Tulsa needed something like what was being described.

I wish I could describe more, but I think this will be a good thing for Tulsa if it comes about.

[southerngirl]

It sounds like this was a meeting open to the public and neighborhood, but I live down the street from McBirney and have yet to receive any communication from the neighborhood association (or developers).  In fact, I first learned of the plans on this thread.  The only person who has been by our house is the across the street neighbor you mention who tried to get us to sign a petition against it.  Supposedly the developers are going to attend the next neighborhood association meeting with an update on the the latest details (which we also learned about from said neighbor), so hopefully we will see the same presentation there.

From what we know about the project, we are in support of it, but are disappointed in the lack of communication from such an active neighborhood association as Riverview's.  We can't make every meeting, but for something this important to our neighborhood, not to mention our street, and such an historic landmark we would have rearranged schedules to attend.

If there is a way to sign up for email communications on this project, please share what it is.  Thank you for the update from this evening's meeting.

[TheArtist]

At the end of the meeting a lady in the audience stood up and I think she said she was the president of the neighborhood association and that they were indeed having a meeting and was urging everyone to come.  I am sorry that I don't remember when she said it was. The developers also said that if you went to the McBirney Mansion website that they would like to hear from people and would welcome comments and suggestions.  It sounds like the plans are still preliminary, all the details have not been worked out of course, they have only actually owned the place for a week now lol. I was suprised at how much work and study they had already done though.

[carltonplace]

quote:Originally posted by southerngirl

It sounds like this was a meeting open to the public and neighborhood, but I live down the street from McBirney and have yet to receive any communication from the neighborhood association (or developers).  In fact, I first learned of the plans on this thread.  The only person who has been by our house is the across the street neighbor you mention who tried to get us to sign a petition against it.  Supposedly the developers are going to attend the next neighborhood association meeting with an update on the the latest details (which we also learned about from said neighbor), so hopefully we will see the same presentation there.

From what we know about the project, we are in support of it, but are disappointed in the lack of communication from such an active neighborhood association as Riverview's.  We can't make every meeting, but for something this important to our neighborhood, not to mention our street, and such an historic landmark we would have rearranged schedules to attend.

If there is a way to sign up for email communications on this project, please share what it is.  Thank you for the update from this evening's meeting.

I'm sorry that you've been left out of the communication loop for this project and other neighborhood news. I have personally walked door to door in our neighborhood to hang flyers (that is more than 1,000 doors from Cincinnati to Lawton). We also have monthly meetings for which we post yellow signs every month. These signs advertise our/your website: www.riverviewtulsa.com where you can see news about our meetings, officers and their contact information, projects underway by the neighborhood association and projects that will affect us.