Claim to ‘cure’ homosexuality

[aoxamaxoa]

"It raises the prospect that pregnant women could one day be offered a treatment to reduce or eliminate the chance that their offspring will be homosexual. Experts say that, in theory, the "straightening" procedure on humans could be as simple as a hormone supplement for mothers-to-be, worn on the skin like an anti-smoking nicotine patch."

http://www.rawstory.com/showarticle.php?src=http%3A%2F%2Fpageoneq.com%2Frssfeedstuff%2Findex.php%3Fid%3D10250

[dsjeffries]

Oh God.  Do people honestly have nothing better to do?  Seriously.

[inteller]

parents should be given whatever options they want to make the kid they want.  Kids aren't cheap, so why dictate what parents can and cannot do?  I find it hilarious that the same people that argue for the right for a woman to choose would argue against choosing how to engineer her kid.  You can't have it both ways.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

parents should be given whatever options they want to make the kid they want.  Kids aren't cheap, so why dictate what parents can and cannot do?  I find it hilarious that the same people that argue for the right for a woman to choose would argue against choosing how to engineer her kid.  You can't have it both ways.

I don't think you would find a lot of opposition or support for this among the "Pro Choice" individuals...

However, I would think, such an unproven hypothesis would be found to be both offensive and repulsive to many in the "Gay Community"..


I know if they came out with an un-straight patch.... Many would say it was Satanic in nature.

[TheArtist]

Parents should be allowed to "make the kid they want"...  I wonder how easy it would be to fund these tests, produce and sell this treatment for use, if the result were to purposely make a gay child?  Perhaps gay parents would like to have gay children?  


Scientists know what makes people gay.  Hormones do.  How "exactly" it happens in differnt people is not so simple to tease out.  Hormones from the environment play a role, the genetics of the mother and how much male or female hormones she passes from her to the fetus, the foetus's succeptibility to fluctuations in hormones, the foetus's genetic predisposition to being gay, etc, etc. A hermaphrodite is more likely to be attracted to someone of the same genotype (xy or xx chromosomes is the genotype ) than the rest of the population and we know how hermaphroditism happens, hormones and the same variables as being gay.  Basically a gay person is a hermaphrodite of the brain.  Hermaphrodites, part of the body is more "mixed": gay, part of the brain is more " "mixed" having both male and female attributes. And then there are transgeotype people like the lady I know of who couldn't have children and during some tests discovered that she had xy chromosomes, this was before it was well known that such a thing could happen. They started discovering it more during some of those tests for the olympics back in the day, and these weren't people who had changed their sex. In other words not only were their bodies mostly female their brains were as well.

Chromosomes are supposed to determine what HORMONES make you male or female. But as we see in nature and life things vary from one extreme to another.  Super short to super tall, skinny to fat, light to dark, and yes male to female, etc.

For the small percentage of people that are gay, have you ever noticed how many brilliant and talented people are gay?  Especially artists and creative thinkers of that type from Aristotle to Hadrian to Leonardo Da Vinci to TE Lawrence to Franco Zeffirelli.  Perhaps there is something beneficial to having a few brains that are a bit mixed, that have that unique combination of wiring, bit male, bit female.  If you use hormones to negate this mixture ever again, will you also lessen the gifts to society that this mixture often brings? Can you imagine HGTV in such a world?[] It would be a much poorly decorated one thats for sure, and poorly dressed to boot. []  Your not just going to change what someone is attracted to if you change the balance of hormones in someones brain as that brain is developing.

There are more differences between male and female brains than just what they are attracted to. There are other "typically" masculine and feminine behaviors, traits, and qualities as well. Be careful of what you are getting rid of in the world.  


We all know how hard it is to find love in this world someone to share your life, hopes, dreams, to be there by your side with you,,,and believe it or not gay people want that too.  And believe it or not its much harder for them to find someone hidden in the crowd of so many who are not like you.  How much more difficult will it be when those numbers are reduced.  I would hate to be one of those last young gay people, searching... alone. For remember, if its real, if their brains really are wired differently to be attracted to the same sex, that feeling, that reality is just as real to them as your feelings are to you.  They hurt and long for love with exactly the same reality that you have.  

Its so very hard to see and feel from someone elses perspective.  And, be aware that what you understand about the world and the things in it may not be as simple or obvious as they may seem at first glance.  The thread you pull from the tapestry may not have been the color you preferred, but it may have been in the place one needed to be.

[dsjeffries]

Well, put, Artist!

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Parents should be allowed to "make the kid they want"...  I wonder how easy it would be to fund these tests, produce and sell this treatment for use, if the result were to purposely make a gay child?  Perhaps gay parents would like to have gay children?  


Scientists know what makes people gay.  Hormones do.  How "exactly" it happens in differnt people is not so simple to tease out.  Hormones from the environment play a role, the genetics of the mother and how much male or female hormones she passes from her to the fetus, the foetus's succeptibility to fluctuations in hormones, the foetus's genetic predisposition to being gay, etc, etc. A hermaphrodite is more likely to be attracted to someone of the same genotype (xy or xx chromosomes is the genotype ) than the rest of the population and we know how hermaphroditism happens, hormones and the same variables as being gay.  Basically a gay person is a hermaphrodite of the brain.  Hermaphrodites, part of the body is more "mixed": gay, part of the brain is more " "mixed" having both male and female attributes. And then there are transgeotype people like the lady I know of who couldn't have children and during some tests discovered that she had xy chromosomes, this was before it was well known that such a thing could happen. They started discovering it more during some of those tests for the olympics back in the day, and these weren't people who had changed their sex. In other words not only were their bodies mostly female their brains were as well.

Chromosomes are supposed to determine what HORMONES make you male or female. But as we see in nature and life things vary from one extreme to another.  Super short to super tall, skinny to fat, light to dark, and yes male to female, etc.

For the small percentage of people that are gay, have you ever noticed how many brilliant and talented people are gay?  Especially artists and creative thinkers of that type from Aristotle to Hadrian to Leonardo Da Vinci to TE Lawrence to Franco Zeffirelli.  Perhaps there is something beneficial to having a few brains that are a bit mixed, that have that unique combination of wiring, bit male, bit female.  If you use hormones to negate this mixture ever again, will you also lessen the gifts to society that this mixture often brings? Can you imagine HGTV in such a world?[] It would be a much poorly decorated one thats for sure, and poorly dressed to boot. []  Your not just going to change what someone is attracted to if you change the balance of hormones in someones brain as that brain is developing.

There are more differences between male and female brains than just what they are attracted to. There are other "typically" masculine and feminine behaviors, traits, and qualities as well. Be careful of what you are getting rid of in the world.  


We all know how hard it is to find love in this world someone to share your life, hopes, dreams, to be there by your side with you,,,and believe it or not gay people want that too.  And believe it or not its much harder for them to find someone hidden in the crowd of so many who are not like you.  How much more difficult will it be when those numbers are reduced.  I would hate to be one of those last young gay people, searching... alone. For remember, if its real, if their brains really are wired differently to be attracted to the same sex, that feeling, that reality is just as real to them as your feelings are to you.  They hurt and long for love with exactly the same reality that you have.  

Its so very hard to see and feel from someone elses perspective.  And, be aware that what you understand about the world and the things in it may not be as simple or obvious as they may seem at first glance.  The thread you pull from the tapestry may not have been the color you preferred, but it may have been in the place one needed to be.

[truth4freedom]

There is no homosexual gene, and therefore no way to genetically engineer a way to create or prevent it's presence in a human being. All the hype about being unable to deny the natural urges and ones God given homosexuality can be summed up quite clearly this column written by my favorite college professor Dr Mike S Adams...

quote:Dear Christopher:I appreciate your recent email characterizing me as a "sick, twisted, homophobic, right-wing, piece of slime." Compared with most of the homosexual hate mail I receive on an almost daily basis, yours was really quite articulate and civil. As such, it deserves a lengthy response.

After your initial string of epithets, you outlined an argument against my attitude towards the homosexual lifestyle. Your argument enumerated several assumptions and positions I hear in many letters from gay readers.

First of all, you argue that homosexuality is genetic, not learned. Since these sexual urges are "natural," they are also "God-given" and, therefore, you say, should be acted upon. And, since I am critical of homosexuality, you assert that I am interfering with God's will. Finally, since Jesus never explicitly criticized homosexuality, you conclude that I am "un-Christian" to do so.

The bulk of your argument can be discredited by considering the following true story that was told to me just a few weeks ago:


A 43 year old businessman was tired of working seventy hours a week and enjoying virtually no social life – especially since he was still a bachelor. So he decided to invite a couple of his neighbors to put aside their yard work and spend a Saturday at the beach throwing back beers and taking in the sun. Somehow, the neighbors both convinced their wives to let them go for the day.

By late morning, the beaches were filling up with girls in bikinis and the three musketeers were rating each one as she passed by. Just before noon, the bachelor saw a tanned blond in sunglasses who appeared to top them all. She was about 5'3", maybe 110 pounds, and must have worn a size "D" cup. Without hesitation, he tapped one of his friends on the shoulder and said "Perfect 10! Kind of makes me want to go back to college." Both of his friends soon lifted a thumb in concurrence with the judgment.

But then, something funny - funny "strange," not funny "ha ha" - happened. As the tanned young blond approached, the businessman recognized the girl. She lived just down the street in his neighborhood and attended a local middle school. In fact, she was only in the eighth grade. As soon as he did the math and realized she was around 13 years old, he felt a sickness deep inside his stomach.

A few moments later, one of his married friends also recognized the girl as his 13 year old neighbor. He felt a similar sickness in his stomach. But neither of the first two guys felt as nauseated as the third. Within a few moments, he recognized the girl as his 13 year old daughter.


The question I have for you, Christopher, is whether you consider the sexual urges of these three men to be "natural"? And, if so, would you also consider them to be "God-given." Should any of these three men act upon these urges simply because they came about naturally? And, if one or more were to act upon the urge, should I keep my objections to myself to avoid interference with the will of God?

Perhaps you are of the opinion that it would be wrong for the businessman to have sex with the 13 year old because she is not a consenting adult. But, remember, Christopher, Jesus never spoke out against statutory rape in the New Testament.

But, fortunately, we do have a basis for preventing the second man from having sex with the 13 year old. Since he is married, the act would constitute adultery, which Jesus specifically condemned in the New Testament.

Of course, that would also provide us with a reason to condemn the third man if he were to have sex with his 13 year old daughter. But, according to your twisted logic, he would be no more culpable, morally speaking, than the second man if both were to act upon the sexual attraction to the 13 year old. Incest was never mentioned by Jesus in the New Testament so it has no relevance in your theology.

Having sinful sexual urges is not the thing that separates homosexuals from the rest of the population, Christopher. It is the arrogant tendency to characterize the sinful urge as the will of God, to yield to it, and to make it the center of his being that makes the average homosexual too self-absorbed for me to tolerate. And you are simply not let off the hook by Christ's refusal to state the obvious.

Source http://www.townhall.com/columnists/column.aspx?UrlTitle=three_men_and_a_baby&ns=MikeSAdams&dt=07/24/2006&page=full&comments=true

[TheArtist]

Is there a gene for Homosexuality?  First off one must consider that there is rarely one single gene that determines anything, its usually an interplay between many.  And one must also see that there is a difference between ones actions and behaviors, and ones primary drives.  

You can't deny there must be a genetic factor involved in what sex an animal is primarily attracted to or not.  Or do we all choose?   Does a red breasted robin "choose" to be attracted to a robin without a red breast and to fight one who does?  Or is he genetically predisposed to do so? Either you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex or you don't.
Which is it?

Did the man and his buddies, as mentioned above, choose to be attracted to females?  We often use the term, "sexual preference", this is not the most accurate or scientific word to use because it has several meanings, the word preference can mean choice, as in I prefer pepperoni over Canadian bacon.  Ones food preferences are different than the basic drive to eat.  The basic sexual drive and what one is attracted to underlies all preferences, fetishes, etc.  Whether he is attracted to females is basic, what kind of females, older, younger, blondes, sheep, whatever those are added on top of that basic attraction or instict. Was it a choice for you to be attracted to the opposite sex or not?

Basically it can't be that there aren't any homosexuals if there are differences between the male and female brain, such that males are supposed to be attracted to females and vice versa. Are those differences a choice or genetic?  Did the man choose to be attracted to females?  If there are differences between male and female bodies, are those differences a choice or genetic and isn't the brain part of the body?

If you agree that there is a difference between a male and female brain to determine the sex one is attracted to it has to be that on occasion some xy brains may be more female just as some xy bodies are more female (they are called hermaphrodites or transphenotype).

Just because you can't see hermaphroditism in the brain doesn't mean it is any less real than what you can see when it is on the outside. Many times it used to be that a baby whose genitalia were ambiguous, would have its sex "assigned" to it with surgery. And many times this would result in the person growing up to discover they were attracted to the same sex.  The xy baby was "assigned" to be a girl, but this xy baby grew up and was not attracted to boys.  Is it normal or genetic for an xy baby to grow up and be attracted to females? If we cut off your male genitalia and gave you female hormones would you now suddenly as a girl become attracted to men? Or would your brain still be wired to be attracted to females? Would that attraction be considered genetic or a choice? At what age can this genetic attraction be changed or at what age should you choose? Its now more common to allow the person to choose his sex when they are older if the genitalia are ambiguous, because it is recognized that just because you can guess or change the outside sex, you can't yet change and determine the sex of the brain on the inside. And just as the outside of the body may be "mixed" it is realized that in these cases that it is more likely that the inside in the brain the sex is "mixed" as well.

There is a difference between the basic sexual attraction someone has, the sex, they are attracted to, and all the "preferences", behaviors, social mores, fetishes etc. that are added on top of that basic attraction.

[truth4freedom]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
You can't deny there must be a genetic factor involved in what sex an animal is primarily attracted to or not.

Yes I can, and do. There has not been a gene ever found to control sexual choice, being choosing between homosexuality and heterosexuality. Furthermore, I don't consider myself an animal, nor descended from one, so an animals behavior does not apply to this topic, especially when considering moral choices.

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist Or do we all choose?   Does a red breasted robin "choose" to be attracted to a robin without a red breast and to fight one who does?  Or is he genetically predisposed to do so? Either you choose to be attracted to the opposite sex or you don't.
Which is it?

Choice is the defining characteristic here. In the case of an animal, they have no spirit and act entirely on genetic predisposition, in essence they have no choice.

Humans by contrast have a spirit and make choices using that spirit, and knowing right from wrong in their spirit as set forth by God our Creator.

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
Did the man and his buddies, as mentioned above, choose to be attracted to females?  We often use the term, "sexual preference", this is not the most accurate or scientific word to use because it has several meanings, the word preference can mean choice, as in I prefer pepperoni over Canadian bacon.  Ones food preferences are different than the basic drive to eat.  The basic sexual drive and what one is attracted to underlies all preferences, fetishes, etc.  Whether he is attracted to females is basic, what kind of females, older, younger, blondes, sheep, whatever those are added on top of that basic attraction or instict. Was it a choice for you to be attracted to the opposite sex or not?

Of course it's a choice.

What differentiates a 'basic drive' from a choice, scientifically speaking of course?

What determines your imaginary 'basic drive', scientifically speaking of course?

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
Basically it can't be that there aren't any homosexuals if there are differences between the male and female brain, such that males are supposed to be attracted to females and vice versa. Are those differences a choice or genetic?  Did the man choose to be attracted to females?

Ye, choice is occurring. You discount the human spirit and subject man and women to nothing more than genetic robots. You can't just throw choice out like that. Then you could start advocating that murderers are genetically disposed to murder and therefore not responsible for their actions.

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
If there are differences between male and female bodies, are those differences a choice or genetic and isn't the brain part of the body?

Genetic, however you are making an outlandish assumption that all of our actions are based on genetics. They are not. What separates a sexual choice vs. which kind of milk to buy at the store? According to you, nothing, it's all genetically predisposed.

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
If you agree that there is a difference between a male and female brain to determine the sex one is attracted to it has to be that on occasion some xy brains may be more female just as some xy bodies are more female (they are called hermaphrodites or transphenotype).

No, I don't. And what gene causes this?

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
Just because you can't see hermaphroditism in the brain doesn't mean it is any less real than what you can see when it is on the outside.

Gene that causes this?

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
Many times it used to be that a baby whose genitalia were ambiguous, would have its sex "assigned" to it with surgery. And many times this would result in the person growing up to discover they were attracted to the same sex.  The xy baby was "assigned" to be a girl, but this xy baby grew up and was not attracted to boys.

That's called a really bad mistake!

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
Is it normal or genetic for an xy baby to grow up and be attracted to females? If we cut off your male genitalia and gave you female hormones would you now suddenly as a girl become attracted to men? Or would your brain still be wired to be attracted to females?

I make choices using my spirit, as every other human does. I'm not a robot. I'm not an accident of nature. I'm not a pointless evolution of a puddle.

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
Would that attraction be considered genetic or a choice?

A choice. I know who I was created to be by my Creator. You're still trying to avoid that recognition.

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
At what age can this genetic attraction be changed or at what age should you choose?

It cannot be both genetic and a choice. You're quite good at attempting to blur lines!

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
Its now more common to allow the person to choose his sex when they are older if the genitalia are ambiguous, because it is recognized that just because you can guess or change the outside sex, you can't yet change and determine the sex of the brain on the inside. And just as the outside of the body may be "mixed" it is realized that in these cases that it is more likely that the inside in the brain the sex is "mixed" as well.

All you need is this elusive gene to figure it out!

It's a choice of a much larger consequence than most ever have to make, but a choice still. Few of these hermaphrodites ever are so closely middle of the road that they have a hard time with this. The hard time comes when they make a choice based on their emotions and not their spirit.

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
There is a difference between the basic sexual attraction someone has, the sex, they are attracted to, and all the "preferences", behaviors, social mores, fetishes etc. that are added on top of that basic attraction.

Nonsense. You failed to prove this genetically which is your thrust. That one cannot help who they are in their mind by genetic predisposition.

[BKDotCom]

quote:Originally posted by truth4freedom
Furthermore, I don't consider myself an animal, nor descended from one, so an animals behavior does not apply to this topic, especially when considering moral choices.

Not a very good way to start out an argument.
The epitome of Truthiness
You lose.

[unknown]

quote:Originally posted by truth4freedom



Ye, choice is occurring. You discount the human spirit and subject man and women to nothing more than genetic robots. You can't just throw choice out like that. Then you could start advocating that murderers are genetically disposed to murder and therefore not responsible for their actions.

Well, actually the study done by Yoon-Mi Hur and Thomas Bouchard in 1997 on the Twins spilt apart has shown a strong link between impulsivity and sensation-seeking behavior... which are attirbuted to geneitc makeup/factors and are found to be higher in drug abusers, delinquents, and psychopaths.

you are right though, there are no, "killing genes", but some genes due lead to violent behavior... mixed in with a bad enviroemnt or with an extra y or x chrosome... you might have the next serial killer.

Yes, you are a genetic robot... you are who you are... even if your creator created you a few genes short[}:)] Who knows maybe your creator is transgenderd??? that might expalin why such things happen.

Same can be said for homosexuals, the genetic makeup of a person along with the enviroment they are brought up in... might just be the cause for their lifestyle.

You talk a lot about Choice... do you think Homosexuals actually choose to be looked down upon by people like yourself and choose to be an outcast to society? why would anyone in their right mind make that choice?

[tulsa1603]

quote:Originally posted by unknown

Originally posted by truth4freedom



You talk a lot about Choice... do you think Homosexuals actually choose to be looked down upon by people like yourself and choose to be an outcast to society? why would anyone in their right mind make that choice?

Thank you!  That is the best argument against it being "choice".  And comparing the homosexual to someone who murders (a choice one shouldn't choose) or one who fights the urge to sleep with a 13 year old?  A man sleeps with a 13 year old - that hurts the 13 year old.  A man murders another man, that hurts the murdered man.  What does a man sleeping with another man hurt?  What happens behind closed doors between two consenting adults has nothing to do with you.

[aoxamaxoa]

Truth4freedumb....you seem new to this game.
"what church do you attend?"

[waterboy]

Someone help me. I fail to see any relevance to homosexuality, whether it be caused by genes or environment, and the insipid story of three men ogling a 13yr old girl. Have you no children or proximity to them? Are you just totally unaware of humanity and human nature?

I could see embarrassment as a natural reaction to seeing my neighbor's daughter and mistakenly lusting after her, but anything else is ludicrous. The real moral of the story is that if men behave as pigs, swilling beer on the beach and judging women like cuts of beef, the result is not good. But then to jump to the conclusion that sex would be the inevitable response to admiring that beauty is crude thinking. If you intend to hide your hate under such flimsy arguments as you have proposed here, expect to be taken as a lightweight and laughed off. That's my response anyway.

[truth4freedom]

quote:Originally posted by BKDotCom

quote:Originally posted by truth4freedom
Furthermore, I don't consider myself an animal, nor descended from one, so an animals behavior does not apply to this topic, especially when considering moral choices.

Not a very good way to start out an argument.
The epitome of Truthiness
You lose.

I'm not the one relying on an imaginary gene and a primal urge that can't be resisted.

Another Wiki fan. What is it with your arguments being based on an entirely unreliable source that can be edited by nearly anyone?

Do you have scientific proof of macro evolution to back up your mocking?