New Developer for the East End

[sgrizzle]

A mixed-use development that might include an urban-designed Wal-Mart is being planned on a downtown site that had been proposed for a baseball stadium.

Claremore real estate developer John Williams would neither confirm nor deny that Wal-Mart Stores Inc. is included in the plans for his development.

Williams, the sole principal of Downtown Tulsa Developers LLC, said he hasn't "personally talked" to Wal-Mart, "but it would be wonderful to have it if it fits."

Williams would not say if others have talked to Wal-Mart on his behalf, but he did say that if Wal-Mart locates a store there, it would be in an urban-style development.

He said he has talked to other retail, office and housing developers but said disclosing any details would be premature.

"The project I have planned -- if it comes into fruition -- will be a tremendous asset for Tulsa," he said. "It will be done well. It will be done right, and it will be done architecturally compatible. It will be a class act."

Williams said he has contracts to purchase land owned by Bill White and aerospace component manufacturer the Nordam Group, as well as a few other properties in
the area called the East End.

The area is generally located between Detroit Avenue and U.S. 75 and between Eighth and First streets.

Nordam owns the most parcels in the area, with White next in line.

When Nordam Chief Executive Officer Ken Lackey was asked if Nordam was negotiating with Wal-Mart, he said, "It's not Wal-Mart directly."

The White and Nordam properties had been part of a larger mixed-use development proposed by Global Development Partners, based in Washington, D.C. That proposal included plans for a new minor-league baseball stadium to house the Tulsa Drillers.

But Lackey said Nordam's land purchase contract with Global was terminated in early January after Nordam asked a judge to release it from the agreement.

"They (Global) were never able to consummate the transaction pursuant to the terms of the contract," Lackey said.

He said Nordam's contract with Williams still depends on winning certain concessions from the city, such as tax increment financing.

White said Global "obviously got into financial difficulties and kept having delays."

"You know, a businessman can only wait so long," he said regarding why he opted to contract with Williams instead of Global.

Global Development's Tim Kissler said the level of complexity of what his company was proposing and the complexity of the financing made it a time-consuming process.

"We certainly gave it a solid effort. We came up with the financing, but albeit just a little too late for the sellers," he said.

Kissler said the proposed baseball field would have been on the White and Nordam properties.

"So, basically, you've taken the core of it, and we can no longer do what we planned with the stadium," he said.

The city's economic development director, Don Himelfarb, said that no matter what occurs with either proposal, "the city is committed to having the Tulsa Drillers in a downtown venue."

He also said the city has seen the proposed plans from both developers and that "we're confident either one would be a great addition to the East End."

Kissler said his mixed-use development proposal is on a wait-and-see status.

"We're still interested in doing a project like we proposed in Tulsa, and we'll be exploring our options," he said.

Tulsa Development Authority Chairman Carl Bracy said whatever is developed in the East End needs to be something that helps downtown grow.

"Wal-Mart could be a tremendous engine in terms of funds for a Tax Increment Financing District," he said.

But he questioned whether a Wal-Mart would affect locally owned specialty shops intended for downtown.

"We need to look five to 10 years down the road and decide what we really want downtown to look like and work towards building a key destination point for all ages," he said.

Bracy said Wal-Mart has redesigned its stores that are in urban environments.

"In Little Rock, there is one in an exclusive neighborhood. I drove past it, and I almost didn't recognize it," he said. "It's amazing how they can fit right into the environment."

Jim Norton, president of Downtown Tulsa Unlimited, said he can't talk about a possible Wal-Mart store until an actual deal is made.

But he did say that if any big-box retailer plans to locate downtown, the appearance, landscaping and parking cannot destroy the fabric of downtown.


http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=070223_To_A1_Urban26844

[DM]

I dont care what you think of WM. But if they do an urban design and build a store downtown, I think it would help with bringing people to DT to live, work, and play. Because there are no places to shop for groceries DT. I think it is a great idea if WM can build a urban design store. I would rather it was more of a WM Neighborhood Market rather then a full super Center store.

[RecycleMichael]

Can't we find someplace else to build a Wal-Mart?

[AngieB]

Super WalMart, Regular WalMart, Neighborhood Market...next YOUR OWN PERSONAL BACKYARD WALMART! What could be more convenient? []

[pmcalk]

I am glad they are still committed to bringing the Drillers downtown.  And I really liked the Global plans--I hope that would ever happens will be a similar mix use.

[rbryant]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle
Tulsa Development Authority Chairman Carl Bracy said whatever is developed in the East End needs to be something that helps downtown grow.

"Wal-Mart could be a tremendous engine in terms of funds for a Tax Increment Financing District," he said.

But he questioned whether a Wal-Mart would affect locally owned specialty shops intended for downtown.

"We need to look five to 10 years down the road and decide what we really want downtown to look like and work towards building a key destination point for all ages," he said.
http://www.tulsaworld.com/NewsStory.asp?ID=070223_To_A1_Urban26844

I could not agree more with the concern about Wal-mart's presence potentially negatively affecting locally owned specialty shops intended for downtown.  I would also be concerned that their presence would also eliminate the possibility of a good grocery store locating downtown (and yes I know Wal-mart sells groceries).  I live downtown, and would love to see a grocery store downtown, preferably one I could walk to.  However, Wal-mart could locate across the street from me (heaven forbid), and I would still drive to Yale to shop at Reasors.  Urban style or sprawling Wal-mart, it's still the same junk inside.  And I know alot of people who feel the same way.  I'm just not convinced that the type of people who want to live in an urban environment (mostly, it seems, young professionals and members of the creative class) would EVER want to shop at a Wal-mart.  They want interesting, diverse, and locally owned type businesses....things that make a place unique and interesting.

[DM]

So we may have a store that is willing to locate in a place that may or may not have the customers to support it (yet) and that's a bad thing? No, I am not a WM supporter. But in this case I do not see Whole Foods, Albertsons, or Reasors willing to jump into this unsure market DT. Lets face it. When a WM moves in, other smaller stores move in too and can do generally very well. 111th and Memorial or 71st and Aspen are great examples. Now the WM neighborhood market on 96th has done very well too when it opened the only stores there was a shoe carnival (i think) and Kohls. Now they have expanded quite a bit since the WM neighborhood market went up. Of course most of it is due to the growth in the area but that area needed a grocery store and specialty stores around that area are still doing very well.

Can someone answer me this? Are the same Doritos sold at WM the same ones sold at Albertson's or Reasors?  If so, why is it junk just because it is sold in WM? Now clothes and crap like that, yeah its junk. lol!

Would there be an issue if Target built a urban design store in DT?

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by DM


Would there be an issue if Target built a urban design store in DT?

No.

WM has enemies based on business practices, merchandise quality, betting (somewhat literally) on elderly employees dying, and their desire to wipe out competition. Also, target does not aim at Wal-Mart, they have specifically cater themselves towards higher-dollar items.

[cannon_fodder]

I for one, would welcome our low cost overlords to downtown Tulsa. For full disclosure, I shop at Walmart when convenient and hold a small amount of stock in them (under $3,000 worth).

I have known about this for about a year now actually.  An attorney I know that did some work for WalMart mentioned it in passing as something WalMart was looking at.  According to them, it is a test market item, the whole Urban image.

I have few, if any problems with the business practices of WalMart.  The same complaints made against walmart are levied by people against Southwest and JetBlue.  They are ruining the market, driving down prices, delivering inferior goods...  who cares?  They are giving consumers what they want, and that is the point of capitalism.  That is why our country works.

If mom and pop had something to offer that was of value, they would stay in business.  Fact is, a light bulb from Walmart for 99 cents works just as well as one from the corner hardware store for $1.50.   If you want to support a more 'local' themed business, fine.  I appreciate the things the smaller stores can offer in unique products, services, and atmosphere... but am not usually willing to pay for it.  

Likewise, their pay is fair for an uneducated, unskilled workforce.  I dont appreciate their anti union stance but certainly understand it.  Not liking the quality of merchandise a store sells is a silly reason to discourage their growth (I dont shop at Coach, because I think its retarded to pay $500 for a purse.  But wouldnt protest their opening). Buying life insurance on employees, while cold, was a good business move and didnt harm anything. I would be happy to discuss business practices in another thread as this is centered on development.

Anyway, if done correctly I would welcome a Walmart downtown with open arms.  It would get a tax base, an anchor store, and people downtown.  I would NOT welcome them if they were to build a typical box store with a sprawling parking lot.  Though, sad as it may be, it would be a better use of space than the current.  

A walmart would also provide NEEDED services to a growing downtown population.  Grocery, toiletry, and household items would be in walking distance or many of the proposed/new lofts.  A bonus is that anywhere WalMart goes, people are sure to follow... they dont build for fun.  They do it because they can make money.  It would be a vote of confidence in our downtown market.

So Im hoping a walmart (would prefer Target though) is part of a serious development downtown.

[Double A]

F*#k Wal-Mart and their always low wages, gender bias, forced unpaid overtime, and their exploitational offshore products. Let's get a Costco so Tulsa can be a real free market, instead of a Wal-Mart dominated monopoly.

[deinstein]

SCREW...that.

I'm not even open to hearing opinions on this.

No Wal-Mart in downtown.

[deinstein]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by DM


Would there be an issue if Target built a urban design store in DT?

No.

WM has enemies based on business practices, merchandise quality, betting (somewhat literally) on elderly employees dying, and their desire to wipe out competition. Also, target does not aim at Wal-Mart, they have specifically cater themselves towards higher-dollar items.

Yes.

Get the box stores out of here.

[cannon_fodder]

Do you not want retail downtown, or are you just a walmart hater?

I would vastly prefer a main street shopping area with many small storefronts, but that isnt happening.  Would you prefer walmart that LOOKS like a mainstreet and has people streaming in and out and tax dollars flowing to the city, or empty parking lots?  Currently we have the empty parking lots.

[deinstein]

I'm beyond a Wal-Mart hater...I'm a box store hater. Get that **** as far away from my urban environment as possible.

[deinstein]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I would vastly prefer a main street shopping area with many small storefronts, but that isnt happening.  Would you prefer walmart that LOOKS like a mainstreet and has people streaming in and out and tax dollars flowing to the city, or empty parking lots?  Currently we have the empty parking lots.

1. I don't trust Wal-Mart.

2. Don't try and sell that crap as if you're saving the life of downtown.

3. Locally owned is what downtown needs.