New Developer for the East End

[ttown_jeff]

You might notice that when Wal-mart does well in an area, typically after about 5-7 years,  they close the old store and build a new, bigger one. This has happened several times in Broken Arrow and Tulsa. Most times the old buildings sit empty for long periods of time. Sometimes, like at 71st and Riverside and at the traffic circle, they get re-used. It's hard to re-use a building that was built for a Wal-Mart.  I don't suspect it would be any different in an "urbanized" Wal-Mart.  If its larger than 40,000 square feet, you're going to have a hard time finding a replacement.

Jeff Shaw
Bounded Rationality

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by ttown_jeff

You might notice that when Wal-mart does well in an area, typically after about 5-7 years,  they close the old store and build a new, bigger one. This has happened several times in Broken Arrow and Tulsa. Most times the old buildings sit empty for long periods of time. Sometimes, like at 71st and Riverside and at the traffic circle, they get re-used. It's hard to re-use a building that was built for a Wal-Mart.  I don't suspect it would be any different in an "urbanized" Wal-Mart.  If its larger than 40,000 square feet, you're going to have a hard time finding a replacement.

Jeff Shaw
Bounded Rationality

According to PBS, http://www.pbs.org/itvs/storewars/stores3_2.html, as of 2005, Wal-Mart had 390 empty stores, or apx. 25 million square feet of unoccupied space.  Because of the typical size of a Wal-Mart and because they will not sell property to competing big-box stores, there is little to do with the buildings.

[Rico]

The one bright spot in the "World" article regarding Mister Williams..

Himelfarb was quoted as saying "any development plans for the East End would include relocating the Drillers to the area."

Not an exact quote... something along those lines...

Oh, I read an article in the Seattle Times a while ago... and yes it was about Wal-Mart improving their image..
I won't bore you with the full article but here is a clip and a photo.


CHIAKI TSUKUMO / AP

Cars are parked in front of Wal-Mart's jumbo store opened under the name of Seiyu, the U.S. retail giant's Japanese partner, in Numazu, about 60 miles southwest of Tokyo. Wal-Mart is hoping that trendier merchandise and a more appealing shopping environment boost sales this year.



 

You can tell that they fully understand that Japan is a very densely populated Country and have made rational use of every inch of the precious commodity of land in Japan.

[Double A]

I thought you were leaving, anyway, so what do you care? Don't let the door hit ya where evolution split ya.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

quote:Originally posted by jdb

Ever notice the sophistication level of wm shoppers and supporters are about the same?

Cheap junk for the consumers...Shirley, a worthwhile experience.

jdb

C'mon over to my place... I CHALLENGE you to find the difference between the stuff I bought at walmart versus the so-callled "quality" stuff I bought at IKEA...

Take the challenge... oh, how was Oslo???

It is the Tulsa Elitists, not evangelicals or rednecks, who have ruined tulsa.

http://www.rogerspark.com/

IKEA will come to downtown Tulsa...... er, uh..... the fourth of never...

Yeah.... but I don't think Ikea sells soccer balls do they..?

And if they did they make lousy coffee tables....

I think you are correct... Wal-Mart has been the catalyst for many Urban Developments across the USA....

[brunoflipper]

blah, blah, blah...

if you don't like it, don't shop there...

if you want something else there, buy the land and build whatever you want...

for me this really comes down to zoning and codes... if we had some real form based zoning dt, that was complimentary to a walking urban environment (i.e. no asphalt sea), i could give a **** what business winds up there...

but since we don't we'll end up with another home depot (which i shop at nonetheless)...

i would not trust walmart further than i could throw them or we'll end up with another suburban store in the middle of downtown...

just ask the city boys about the bait and switch  they got with the walmart market on peoria...

[jdb]

USR - I dont see your post's...swear I didn't ignore you. If it wasn't for rico's snip I wouldn't even know.

However, I am not about to crawl around heaps of sweaty sports gear to point out cheap junk bought in one of several places. Wish I could, the invitation caused many tingles - to be sure - but I must decline.

Olso was a while ago but it was steeped in history and exuded an intrinsic value. The trip I have been putting off is actually Zurick.

At present I am in Tucson, AZ. abusing my liver, big time.

XOXOX, jdb


AA - I thought we were kinda on the same side...what gives?

[cannon_fodder]

I would be in favor of designating the area an "urban zone" or some such nonsense, but we would do so at the risk of it sitting empty for another 30 years.


Also, the myth that Wal-Mart merchandise is any more crappy than most other stores is getting old.  Time and again consumer reports studies have shown most of it even comes from the same factories.  IKEA label - $300.  Wal-Mart - $50.

Clearly this doesnt hold true for everything, but a rattler from wal-mart will do the same job as the one from BassPro...

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

USR - I dont see your post's...swear I didn't ignore you. If it wasn't for rico's snip I wouldn't even know.

However, I am not about to crawl around heaps of sweaty sports gear to point out cheap junk bought in one of several places. Wish I could, the invitation caused many tingles - to be sure - but I must decline.

Olso was a while ago but it was steeped in history and exuded an intrinsic value. The trip I have been putting off is actually Zurick.

At present I am in Tucson, AZ. abusing my liver, big time.

XOXOX, jdb


AA - I thought we were kinda on the same side...what gives?

Do you mean me? If it was about the post about leaving, that was in regards to the soccer guy. I guess he deleted his post. I guess I should have replied with his qoute, sorry for the confusion.

[jdb]

AA- Cool beans. I read the comment wrong.

I hereby apologize for my cheap shot at humor with the "smelly sports gear" crack.

Not being a box store shopper I wouldn't know anything about any of them other then the obvious, which I take exception with.

WM being the least symbiotic corp. on the planet.

I know, bemoaning the vanishing era of craftsmanship...but that's me. I do not value bargins bought on credit.

Anyway, until there is a hip population (demand), and like minded people - with money - willing to take a risk and set up shop any "urban zone" would flounder.

But that would come about with much less grief on fallow land then having a bad neighbor to contend with, no?

"30 years" is a high number used to make your point, right?
jdb

[Rico]

Originally posted by mister "hip, slick, and coool..."jdb[clip]

Anyway, until there is a hip population (demand), and like minded people - with money - willing to take a risk and set up shop any "urban zone" would flounder.
[-end clip]


Ding... Ding... Ding....

We have a winner........!

None other than the fellow that looks like a Cuban Policeman looking for one of those hand- rolled Cuban Deliciadados.............******!


The question was....

How does the fellow from Claremore rake together more scratch than Global Development Inc.....?


Best answer was....."I dunno maybe Bentonville Arkansas..."


The question is....?


Who is really in the driver seat...?

If you know the answer to this one....

the prize will be..... a room for two at the Spectacular Downtown Tulsa Arvest Inn....?

Runners up.... Will receive a Gourmet Flounder Dinner for two prepared tableside...!

[8D]

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

AA- Cool beans. I read the comment wrong.

I hereby apologize for my cheap shot at humor with the "smelly sports gear" crack.

Not being a box store shopper I wouldn't know anything about any of them other then the obvious, which I take exception with.

WM being the least symbiotic corp. on the planet.

I know, bemoaning the vanishing era of craftsmanship...but that's me. I do not value bargins bought on credit.

Anyway, until there is a hip population (demand), and like minded people - with money - willing to take a risk and set up shop any "urban zone" would flounder.

But that would come about with much less grief on fallow land then having a bad neighbor to contend with, no?

"30 years" is a high number used to make your point, right?
jdb

No sweat. We are definitely on the same page. Say Rico, "Big Daddy" Don Walker maybe?

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

The only reason I'm leary of a DT wal-mart is because I do not trust the local government to force Wal-mart into building anything "Urban".  It'll end up looking like the 66th and Memorial Wal-Mart (which they probably thought they were doing us a favor by making it look "good" instead of like the typical blue supercenters)

I agree. It's quite a stretch to view Wal-Mart in an urban setting.  I don't trust Wal-Mart to understand what an urban setting is.  However, the "urban-designed" Wal-Mart concept is promising.  I think a Neighborhood Market would be the best fit for the East End.  Parking in back of the building is a must, and even then, there needs to be a buffer between the parking and surrounding landscape.  I just hope they don't use the Home Depot as an example.  If Wal-Mart is a part of a larger development plan, the city should make the TIF contingent on the developers' agreement to preserve urban walkable space and force Wal-Mart to comply.

[Double A]

Maybe it'll be an Urban Italianate a la Bumgarner in the Arvest disposable Dryvit style architechture. Tre chique.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

I would be in favor of designating the area an "urban zone" or some such nonsense, but we would do so at the risk of it sitting empty for another 30 years.


Also, the myth that Wal-Mart merchandise is any more crappy than most other stores is getting old.  Time and again consumer reports studies have shown most of it even comes from the same factories.  IKEA label - $300.  Wal-Mart - $50.

Clearly this doesnt hold true for everything, but a rattler from wal-mart will do the same job as the one from BassPro...

This is really going to start to annoy me if I hear a reference to the Wal-Mart Merchandise as the reason for them not being a good fit for the East End............

I really did not want to post my full laundry list of reasons so I guess one or two, that best fit, will do... and if not.. so be it.

The easiest way to make this point may be the following 2 short stories... so bear with me......

1. I have known for, 19 years the man that owned the finest Chinese restaurant Cherry Street ever had.
The following is an event that occurred at that Restaurant while it was still in operation.

Three middle Eastern Gentlemen came to the establishment for a late lunch / dinner...... They complimented the Owner for the ambiance of the interior and told him that they had heard his food was the finest there was to be had.. They were dressed in traditional Arabic, or one of those countries style clothing and obviously very wealthy.

They proceeded to have Appetizers... Drinks... samples of the more expensive offerings on the Entree portion of the menu... all of this taking several hours at a cost of over $200. dollars..

At this point the fellow that seemed to be the "decider" for the group called the owner aside and said..
"He understood that he was a worldly individual and appreciated the finer things there were to be had in the world. They were going to be in Tulsa for a while and were very, very pleased they had found his establishment."

He went on to say..."I have been in several countries over the past month but I would so much like to have a dish that our cook serves us in our country"
The owner thanked the Gentleman Saying he was honored to have he and his friends in his house and they were Welcome any time. Whatever dish they had in mind, if possible, he would have his Chef prepare...
It was then that the Gentleman pulled what seemed to be several thousand dollars from his pocket and said "All of this can be yours for the taking if you will arrange for me and my guest to dine on one our special dinners of fresh "Monkey Brains"...

The owner of the Restaurant appalled and somewhat sickened by this request replied he would not be able to provide them with that dish... as this was not something he served or cared to serve..

Noticeably upset by the restaurant owners reply the fellow said that " He had made a mistake in judging the character and reputation of the Restaurant and it's owner... He and his guests would be leaving."

They did so abruptly without paying one dime of what they owed.

2.One of my close friends worked at Home Depot for approximately 10 years... During most of the time he worked there it was still owned and operated by the two fellows that formed the company....

In approximately 2004 Home Depot's then CEO (Bob Nardelli) made it known that Home Depot was going to become the "Largest" Home Improvement chain in the whole world... They were going to have stores in every country in the world.. Even China and Russia..

He made this known as as part of an annual sort of report to the employees of the company..

After this time there were a certain number of rumors that came through the pipeline.. One; that they were going to be carrying certain building materials that were traditional in China such as Bamboo poles along with the usual 2X4s and other items etc...
According to information that came directly from the Regional Manager to my friend they, (Home Depot Corporate Level), were pricing the items from the local vendors... farmers... etc. So that when the Company made it's move they would have their price points geared to be able to undersell whoever the competition would turn out to be..    

The point of these two stories is this....

1. Money can not and should not give one the means to behave however they choose to. Nor should it give you the power to move into a Community and install your Company as the Centerpiece of that Community..

All those that have responded to this article, and do not plan to do any more than the occasional visit to the "East End", should find something that will impact their lives to a greater degree and install a Wal-Mart in that.

2. Any Company that plans and forms strategy to eliminate all competition regardless of how small that competition may be... Is not going to be the fellow that you would like to see move in to an Urban Community of Artist, small business owners, and Citizens seeking that "Alternative Life Style" that defines Dense, Urban, Walkable, etc. Communities.
Several weeks ago Home Depot announced it's pick for the CEO of the Asian portion of it's business dealings.... With the opening of it's first store in China to happen sometime this year.