New Developer for the East End

[Rico]

Originally posted by USRufnex

quote: It's like walkable urbanity but it's missing that pesky walkable part while charging trendy overpriced rents based on future development and idle speculation...

What exactly IS Tulsa getting with the Brady TIF district (set to expire, BTW) and the Blue Dome TIF district?... tax-sheltered subsidies to make the areas of Blue Dome/Brady into one end of a drinker's see-saw?... with Cherry Street and Brookside at the other end...

The following is not directly aimed at you Rufnex... You have just provided a perfect example of something that I find annoying about the whole Development thing in Tulsa and on this Forum...

Many are like people that show up at a Party and bring nothing but their appetite for a Good Time... So in place of finding any fault in the fact that they truly came prepared just to consume mass quantities and Parteeeeee.... They cast stones at the host for the party being a drag..

That is IMHO the exact same thing as people that do not go Downtown Tulsa for any other reason than to check and see if all the work has been done for them and it is now as they wanted it to be...

They do not live their... They don't bother to see if they can help bring about a change for the better... They simply offer their critique and are on their merry way back to the burbs...

For the above reason I would like to see people that don't live Downtown, and never have any plans other than to take part in the Urban Community it will Become, please refrain from your off the cuff op-ed version of what you believe is happening...

Many on this Forum... many years back saw the wrecking ball aimed at the Tulsa Club and others.... We questioned where was the venture capital so badly needed to save many of these precious buildings..

This thankfully happened in the form of Maurice Kanbar... and I really don't care if this fellow takes ten years to develop all his property....

I am not going to whine about the fact that things are just not happening quick enough for me...

All of the things that are hoped for and worked for are going to become a reality Downtown.

And when the Party is open for business open up both barrels and fire all of the critique you can muster...

That is, if you have not spent it all, being oil slicks under the tires of change.

[USRufnex]

Rico, I don't think alot of the people potentially interested in moving to urban areas are looking for perfection... just a friggin grocery store for pete's sake... and it happens to be a big pet-peeve of mine to hear delusions of utopian splendor and over-romanticized concepts of new urbanism posing as reasonable plans for urban development...

If a plan comes around the pike that involves an "anchor" for a TIF district that incldes a ballpark, or a soccer stadium, or a WalMart, or a Nordstrom's, or an IKEA, or a BassPro, or a Stillwater Natl Bank, or a bigbox Temple to Athena... it'd be nice to find out the details first... before the self-appointed gate-keepers of downtown start with urbanesque well-worn dogmas on what their downtown should look like...

The suburban folks who are routinely maligned (by posters in this forum) all have kids who could very definitely move into Tulsa's "walkable urbanity" if it becomes available and affordable in the coming  years/decades... and some of those suburban folks could themselves "move into town" to retire... but only if they feel welcomed rather than scorned by the local cliques who consider themselves socially superior while dining on that oh-so-tasty Tulsa sushi... hmmm, this is starting to sound like a retread of an S.E. Hinton novel...

If OSU-Tulsa had offered what I was looking for five years ago, I woulda moved close to DT back then even without the required grocery store and could have stayed in Tulsa... I suspect my situation was pretty typical among the many Tulsans who eventually became ex-Tulsans...

I heard horror stories in the 90s from young apprentice artists for Tulsa Opera who stayed around downtown-- one of them made the huge mistake of coming to Tulsa without a car...

The area around KOTV/Blue Dome has improved over the past 5 years... especially if you like bars and a smattering of entertainment (which drains people from Cherry Street/Brookside, btw), but....

It is not a neighborhood.  Call part of it an enclave if you want, or a co-op... or call it a microhood if you wish... but Tracy Park and Brady Heights are neighborhoods... the East Village-- scratch that-- the East End-- or whatever the realtors wanna call it next week, is not...

quote:Originally posted by Rico


Many are like people that show up at a Party and bring nothing but their appetite for a Good Time... So in place of finding any fault in the fact that they truly came prepared just to consume mass quantities and Parteeeeee.... They cast stones at the host for the party being a drag.

But this "party" has a hefty cover charge in the form of 15-year TIF district designations.
http://www.tulsadevelopmentauthority.org/things_tax_increment.html

So, if your so-called party charges a cover and promises a live band, shouldn't we have the right to complain if the band is a no-show?

Gotta go... I'm going to a cool, hip oriental grocery store on 21st & Garnett to get a stir-fry pan.  Then to 31st for some baba ganoush...

One man's tacky east Tulsa strip mall is another man's place to go for his favorite ethnic foods... the real deal... []

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

Rico, I don't think alot of the people potentially interested in moving to urban areas are looking for perfection... just a friggin grocery store for pete's sake... and it happens to be a big pet-peeve of mine to hear delusions of utopian splendor and over-romanticized concepts of new urbanism posing as reasonable plans for urban development...

If a plan comes around the pike that involves an "anchor" for a TIF district that incldes a ballpark, or a soccer stadium, or a WalMart, or a Nordstrom's, or an IKEA, or a BassPro, or a Stillwater Natl Bank, or a bigbox Temple to Athena... it'd be nice to find out the details first... before the self-appointed gate-keepers of downtown start with urbanesque well-worn dogmas on what their downtown should look like...

The suburban folks who are routinely maligned (by posters in this forum) all have kids who could very definitely move into Tulsa's "walkable urbanity" if it becomes available and affordable in the coming  years/decades... and some of those suburban folks could themselves "move into town" to retire... but only if they feel welcomed rather than scorned by the local cliques who consider themselves socially superior while dining on that oh-so-tasty Tulsa sushi... hmmm, this is starting to sound like a retread of an S.E. Hinton novel...

If OSU-Tulsa had offered what I was looking for five years ago, I woulda moved close to DT back then even without the required grocery store and could have stayed in Tulsa... I suspect my situation was pretty typical among the many Tulsans who eventually became ex-Tulsans...

I heard horror stories in the 90s from young apprentice artists for Tulsa Opera who stayed around downtown-- one of them made the huge mistake of coming to Tulsa without a car...

The area around KOTV/Blue Dome has improved over the past 5 years... especially if you like bars and a smattering of entertainment (which drains people from Cherry Street/Brookside, btw), but....

It is not a neighborhood.  Call part of it an enclave if you want, or a co-op... or call it a microhood if you wish... but Tracy Park and Brady Heights are neighborhoods... the East Village-- scratch that-- the East End-- or whatever the realtors wanna call it next week, is not...

quote:Originally posted by Rico


Many are like people that show up at a Party and bring nothing but their appetite for a Good Time... So in place of finding any fault in the fact that they truly came prepared just to consume mass quantities and Parteeeeee.... They cast stones at the host for the party being a drag.

But this "party" has a hefty cover charge in the form of 15-year TIF district designations.
http://www.tulsadevelopmentauthority.org/things_tax_increment.html

So, if your so-called party charges a cover and promises a live band, shouldn't we have the right to complain if the band is a no-show?

Gotta go... I'm going to a cool, hip oriental grocery store on 21st & Garnett to get a stir-fry pan.  Then to 31st for some baba ganoush...

One man's tacky east Tulsa strip mall is another man's place to go for his favorite ethnic foods... the real deal... []

Oh My..... Lets see "Gatekeeper", "Baba Kanoush", "Live Band", "Fish Head Store", "Jasmine Rice", "Real Deal" let's see.... where do I begin to respond to one of your definitives..

Let me sleep on it and I'll give this more thought in the morning....

[jdb]

No where else in DT was better suited for a wacky, enclave of people doing there thing.

Everywhere else is clogged up, to expensive, or controlled by not so easy minded owners.

Strip malls are fine but they're everywhere. The EE, a mirco-hood, could have been a spot for something different.

Sucks, jdb

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Rico


The question was....

How does the fellow from Claremore rake together more scratch than Global Development Inc.....?

Best answer was....."I dunno maybe Bentonville Arkansas..."

Another answer:  Global Development never really had the scratch to begin with... it was all based on rosy projections for positive outcomes in DC (Poplar Point soccer/mixed use), Richmond (mixed use/ballpark), Univ of Central Florida, Tulsa, Milwaukee, North Carolina (Research triangle/medical?)...

If Global had the scratch as advertised in the fall of 2005, they would still own Major League Soccer's DC United, as well as act as landlord and lead investor for a 35% stake (my educated guess) in the new Tulsa Roughnecks, and the shovels coulda hit the dirt months ago for this project... and yours truly would have been as happy as a pig-in-a-poke... []

quote:Originally posted by Rico



The question is....?

Who is really in the driver seat...?

[8D]

After bowing out in Milwaukee last fall to concentrate on "other projects," it's my guess that Global's running out of their own money while still using other people's money... And any of their investors still sticking around (at one time rumored to include Kuwaiti oil $$$) are probably running out of patience...


More fun with TIF's
http://www.ncbg.org/tifs/tifs.htm

quote:In the past few years, Tax Increment Financing has become Mayor Daley's favorite economic development tool. TIFs were originally intended as a targeted solution for the most distressed neighborhoods -- those parts of the City with little prospect of seeing any private development. Increasingly, TIFs are being used downtown and in the fast-growing neighborhoods surrounding the Loop. While TIFs may be a good tool for some areas, they are not a cure-all for all of Chicago's economic development problems........

.......Tax Increment Financing (TIF) is a special tool that the City of Chicago and other Illinois cities and towns can use to generate property tax dollars for economic development in specifically designated geographic areas. TIF allows the City to re-invest all new property tax dollars generated from the designated TIF district for a 23-year period. There are 130 TIF districts in Chicago, comprising nearly 30% of the land area of the City.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

quote:Originally posted by Rico


The question was....

How does the fellow from Claremore rake together more scratch than Global Development Inc.....?

Best answer was....."I dunno maybe Bentonville Arkansas..."

Another answer:  Global Development never really had the scratch to begin with... it was all based on rosy projections for positive outcomes in DC (Poplar Point soccer/mixed use), Richmond (mixed use/ballpark), Univ of Central Florida, Tulsa, Milwaukee, North Carolina (Research triangle/medical?)...

If Global had the scratch as advertised in the fall of 2005, they would still own Major League Soccer's DC United, as well as act as landlord and lead investor for a 35% stake (my educated guess) in the new Tulsa Roughnecks, and the shovels coulda hit the dirt months ago for this project... and yours truly would have been as happy as a pig-in-a-poke... []

quote:Originally posted by Rico



The question is....?

Who is really in the driver seat...?

[8D]

After bowing out in Milwaukee last fall to concentrate on "other projects," it's my guess that Global's running out of their own money while still using other people's money... And any of their investors still sticking around (at one time rumored to include Kuwaiti oil $$$) are probably running out of patience...


More fun with TIF's
http://www.ncbg.org/tifs/tifs.htm

quote:In the past few years, Tax Increment Financing has become Mayor Daley's favorite economic development tool. TIFs were originally intended as a targeted solution for the most distressed neighborhoods -- those parts of the City with little prospect of seeing any private development. Increasingly, TIFs are being used downtown and in the fast-growing neighborhoods surrounding the Loop. While TIFs may be a good tool for some areas, they are not a cure-all for all of Chicago's economic development problems........

.......Tax Increment Financing (TIF) is a special tool that the City of Chicago and other Illinois cities and towns can use to generate property tax dollars for economic development in specifically designated geographic areas. TIF allows the City to re-invest all new property tax dollars generated from the designated TIF district for a 23-year period. There are 130 TIF districts in Chicago, comprising nearly 30% of the land area of the City.

The question was and still is.....

How does this fellow from Claremore rake together the scratch...?
He seems to have a certain special relation with a Real Estate wizzz Lady from Owasso...

But the real point of that post was...

Is Wal-Mart the money and the key person behind the entire deal...?

If so why not come out with it...? They are now Urban Friendly warm and fuzzy.... mended their ways... Upstanding citizens of the Corporate Community..aren't they...?

By the way Ruf... How does Wally World feel about soccer..? just kiddin...[}:)]

[TheArtist]

Rumor has it that Global Development closed on more property.  Is their East End project showing twitches of life?

[Rico]

Heard exactly the same info..... Only thing I might add is the property they closed on is said to be sizeable....

"Wally" is feeling quite ill...... Unless that is all the whole Williiams flap was about was an attempt to sneak it in under the radar..

[}:)]

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Rumor has it that Global Development closed on more property.  Is their East End project showing twitches of life?

If they closed on anything it would be a positive. The seem to have a better looking plan.

[RecycleMichael]

It is time to get excited again. The East End development will change our downtown forever and new players are eagerly anticipated.

I hope that the ballpark is still planned.

[YoungTulsan]

LOL at this thread.  It's like a hot girl left us for someone else, then all we could get a date with was a huge-donkey Wal-mart.  Now the hot girl is stringing us along like she MIGHT be interested again but won't commmit a straight answer.  But Wal-mart is always still waiting for us to call her back.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

It is time to get excited again. The East End development will change our downtown forever and new players are eagerly anticipated.

I hope that the ballpark is still planned.

I agree. GDP closed on a 48,000 square foot piece of land at 6th & Elgin. It's another piece of the puzzle.

The GM for the Drillers was on Channel 8 tonight at 10 talking about how positive a move downtown would be. First time I've heard him talk about it that publicly. Might be trying to salvage the plan, or it might be that the plan is coming together. Guess we'll find out...

[perspicuity85]

Maybe I'm late on this, but what is the nature of the relationship between Global Development and specific properties in the East End?  To they own many of them or have they obtained a rite of first refusal for some abandoned buildings?

What's the deal with the Claremore guy?  Does he already have pending contracts to buy East End properties?

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

Maybe I'm late on this, but what is the nature of the relationship between Global Development and specific properties in the East End?  To they own many of them or have they obtained a rite of first refusal for some abandoned buildings?

What's the deal with the Claremore guy?  Does he already have pending contracts to buy East End properties?

Theoretically they both have tentative contracts on the majority of the land but nordam was suing GDP for not closing on time.

[TheArtist]

I guess the clincher for which development group gets their way is going to be the Nordam property. Thats the property to keep your eye on.