Sound the alarm. Tulsa selling itself down river..

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Good point about the road and who payed for it.  They would have to compensate for that.  The property thing, again, depends on what property they are getting and what we would be getting in return.  If it were ONLY hospital property and property for hospital expanse only, that is not going to generate tax dollars anyway, I say fine. Let them take the road leading up to the hospital as a connector to BA, and the land the hospital is on and compensate us for both.  This would not be a landgrab for the union school district since there would be no residences on that property to make it matter. Nor do I think there is some nefarious intention for someone to make a buck at the expense of the taxpayers.  I frankly think the whole deal will end up being more of a loss for BA and a potential gain for Tulsa and once BA realizes this the idea will fall through. Is it really so important to be able to say "We have a hospital" that they would trade us tax paying property for non tax paying property, and yes compensation for the road if thats warranted?  Plus lets remember there will be river and possible rail transportation votes coming up soon.  If they want something that will benefit them, we can want something in return. I really don't think the mayor, or whoever makes this descision, is not going to be thinking about what Tulsa can get out of this deal.

wow, why don't you just pack your bags and move to Broken Arrow, you seem to 'feel their pain' so well.

No land short of the Bass Pro parcel can make up for prime south Tulsa real estate.  ESPECIALLY not the north BA property that rumors have been mentioning.

I think that image illustrates it well.  Tomorrow I will find out who owns that big hunk of land north of the hospital, but I can pretty much guarantee that the "Tulsa Gets Screwed" part is up for grabs.  That is potential revenue right there.

Oh, and you dont need residences to benefit a school district.  Its PROPERTY TAXES and Union would love to see that....so you can pretty much guarantee that vacant land will be lobbied for to get a millage generating entity on it.

[inteller]

let's face it, if BA could take everything east of 169 they would.

[deinstein]

quote:Originally posted by intellerI know many of you in mid town could care less.  but if this is given away it is a slippery slope downhill.  Next they will be giving Cherry street to Owasso since they don't have one of those (extreme I know).  Call your councilor and tell them to say NO to this crap.

They can have everything south of I-44, it's all the same crap anyway.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by deinstein

quote:Originally posted by intellerI know many of you in mid town could care less.  but if this is given away it is a slippery slope downhill.  Next they will be giving Cherry street to Owasso since they don't have one of those (extreme I know).  Call your councilor and tell them to say NO to this crap.

They can have everything south of I-44, it's all the same crap anyway.

rot.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Good point about the road and who payed for it.  They would have to compensate for that.  The property thing, again, depends on what property they are getting and what we would be getting in return.  If it were ONLY hospital property and property for hospital expanse only, that is not going to generate tax dollars anyway, I say fine. Let them take the road leading up to the hospital as a connector to BA, and the land the hospital is on and compensate us for both.  This would not be a landgrab for the union school district since there would be no residences on that property to make it matter. Nor do I think there is some nefarious intention for someone to make a buck at the expense of the taxpayers.  I frankly think the whole deal will end up being more of a loss for BA and a potential gain for Tulsa and once BA realizes this the idea will fall through. Is it really so important to be able to say "We have a hospital" that they would trade us tax paying property for non tax paying property, and yes compensation for the road if thats warranted?  Plus lets remember there will be river and possible rail transportation votes coming up soon.  If they want something that will benefit them, we can want something in return. I really don't think the mayor, or whoever makes this descision, is not going to be thinking about what Tulsa can get out of this deal.

wow, why don't you just pack your bags and move to Broken Arrow, you seem to 'feel their pain' so well.

No land short of the Bass Pro parcel can make up for prime south Tulsa real estate.  ESPECIALLY not the north BA property that rumors have been mentioning.

I think that image illustrates it well.  Tomorrow I will find out who owns that big hunk of land north of the hospital, but I can pretty much guarantee that the "Tulsa Gets Screwed" part is up for grabs.  That is potential revenue right there.

Oh, and you dont need residences to benefit a school district.  Its PROPERTY TAXES and Union would love to see that....so you can pretty much guarantee that vacant land will be lobbied for to get a millage generating entity on it.

Are you being sarcastic?  I thought I was being rather rough on BA? lol  You seem to have gone into "overdrive panic mode" about all this.  But whats your theory as to why Tulsa would do something that would not be to its eventual advantage on this matter?

[inteller]

there is no other fallow land along the shared border between BA and Tulsa that has as much potential from a revenue standpoint than the piece at the corner of 91st/Garnett.  There is NO swap that would be to Tulsa's advantage, short of BA handing over Bass Pro.

and the reason I am in panic mode is that Tulsa hasnt exactly been to smart in any of its recent dealings...Great Plains anyone?  The only way to keep stupid **** from happening is overreacting to scare them into doing the right thing.

[deinstein]

Oh no!!!

[}:)]

[YoungTulsan]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Good point about the road and who payed for it.  They would have to compensate for that.  The property thing, again, depends on what property they are getting and what we would be getting in return.  If it were ONLY hospital property and property for hospital expanse only, that is not going to generate tax dollars anyway, I say fine. Let them take the road leading up to the hospital as a connector to BA, and the land the hospital is on and compensate us for both.  This would not be a landgrab for the union school district since there would be no residences on that property to make it matter. Nor do I think there is some nefarious intention for someone to make a buck at the expense of the taxpayers.  I frankly think the whole deal will end up being more of a loss for BA and a potential gain for Tulsa and once BA realizes this the idea will fall through. Is it really so important to be able to say "We have a hospital" that they would trade us tax paying property for non tax paying property, and yes compensation for the road if thats warranted?  Plus lets remember there will be river and possible rail transportation votes coming up soon.  If they want something that will benefit them, we can want something in return. I really don't think the mayor, or whoever makes this descision, is not going to be thinking about what Tulsa can get out of this deal.

wow, why don't you just pack your bags and move to Broken Arrow, you seem to 'feel their pain' so well.

No land short of the Bass Pro parcel can make up for prime south Tulsa real estate.  ESPECIALLY not the north BA property that rumors have been mentioning.

I think that image illustrates it well.  Tomorrow I will find out who owns that big hunk of land north of the hospital, but I can pretty much guarantee that the "Tulsa Gets Screwed" part is up for grabs.  That is potential revenue right there.

Oh, and you dont need residences to benefit a school district.  Its PROPERTY TAXES and Union would love to see that....so you can pretty much guarantee that vacant land will be lobbied for to get a millage generating entity on it.

Are you being sarcastic?  I thought I was being rather rough on BA? lol  You seem to have gone into "overdrive panic mode" about all this.  But whats your theory as to why Tulsa would do something that would not be to its eventual advantage on this matter?

In being "rough" on BA, you seem to have overlooked the trojan horse, which is actually believing the land will be used for hospital use.  Of course that will technically be what is on paper when the agreement is made, but after the deal is done and the land belongs to BA, the hospital can then sell the land to the highest bidder for a new suburban paradise development in the NEW Broken Arrow.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by YoungTulsan

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Good point about the road and who payed for it.  They would have to compensate for that.  The property thing, again, depends on what property they are getting and what we would be getting in return.  If it were ONLY hospital property and property for hospital expanse only, that is not going to generate tax dollars anyway, I say fine. Let them take the road leading up to the hospital as a connector to BA, and the land the hospital is on and compensate us for both.  This would not be a landgrab for the union school district since there would be no residences on that property to make it matter. Nor do I think there is some nefarious intention for someone to make a buck at the expense of the taxpayers.  I frankly think the whole deal will end up being more of a loss for BA and a potential gain for Tulsa and once BA realizes this the idea will fall through. Is it really so important to be able to say "We have a hospital" that they would trade us tax paying property for non tax paying property, and yes compensation for the road if thats warranted?  Plus lets remember there will be river and possible rail transportation votes coming up soon.  If they want something that will benefit them, we can want something in return. I really don't think the mayor, or whoever makes this descision, is not going to be thinking about what Tulsa can get out of this deal.

wow, why don't you just pack your bags and move to Broken Arrow, you seem to 'feel their pain' so well.

No land short of the Bass Pro parcel can make up for prime south Tulsa real estate.  ESPECIALLY not the north BA property that rumors have been mentioning.

I think that image illustrates it well.  Tomorrow I will find out who owns that big hunk of land north of the hospital, but I can pretty much guarantee that the "Tulsa Gets Screwed" part is up for grabs.  That is potential revenue right there.

Oh, and you dont need residences to benefit a school district.  Its PROPERTY TAXES and Union would love to see that....so you can pretty much guarantee that vacant land will be lobbied for to get a millage generating entity on it.

Are you being sarcastic?  I thought I was being rather rough on BA? lol  You seem to have gone into "overdrive panic mode" about all this.  But whats your theory as to why Tulsa would do something that would not be to its eventual advantage on this matter?

In being "rough" on BA, you seem to have overlooked the trojan horse, which is actually believing the land will be used for hospital use.  Of course that will technically be what is on paper when the agreement is made, but after the deal is done and the land belongs to BA, the hospital can then sell the land to the highest bidder for a new suburban paradise development in the NEW Broken Arrow.

thank god someone gets it!

[shadows]

Some among us can remember the hospital at 81st and Lewis that was local owned with very advanced equipment that was forced to close because of lack of patients.  The story was that Tulsa did not need any more hospitals.   The same with the doctor hospital.   The same people who made the decisions in both cases will make the decision on the B.A. v Tulsa hospital name.

As for the road improvements and signals being paid for.  If you missed your simple civic class take a look into the mirror and check the road tax on gasoline  the next time you fill up and you will see who paid for those improvements.   It is not only the bum's looking for a free lunch as both cities share in the road tax.  Governments do not make money on real-estate but operate only out of the taxpayer's pockets.

[deinstein]

Lots of opinions on the northwest corner of 91st & Garnett, huh?

[}:)][}:)][}:)]

[AVERAGE JOE]

Oh you guys are gonna love this, courtesy of the Saturday Tulsa World:

Development planned at 91st & 169

It's not clear from the article exactly where the development will be built, but it sounds pretty darn close to the land we're considering swapping with BA. Wouldn't that just be a kick in the pants if they get the hospital AND a commercial development??

[TheArtist]

From what I can tell its on the SW "quadrant" of the highway and 91st. The old heart hospital is in the NE section.

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

From what I can tell its on the SW "quadrant" of the highway and 91st. The old heart hospital is in the NE section.

Your correct, you can see here how it all plays out: http://okmet.org/bb/index.php?topic=558.0

[inteller]

yes that development shouldnt impact the heart hospital, but it should be used as an example of what -could- happen to the land in question.