Tulsa Hills Shopping Center

[SoonerRiceGrad]

You forgot to add Garden Center.

I don't know what that is, though.

[AngieB]

quote:Originally posted by SoonerRiceGrad

You forgot to add Garden Center.

I don't know what that is, though.

It's the Garden Center portion of Lowe's.

[sgrizzle]

http://www.journalrecord.com/article.cfm?recid=82633

quote:
Seeking salvation in Tulsa Hills retail development
October 12, 2007
TULSA – For those in the retail community, the wound left by Tuesday's river tax vote may take a long time to heal.
"I think there's a lot of people who feel like I do today, who want to get their suitcases out and start packing," said Steve Walman, the owner of Walman Commercial Real Estate Services. "I mean, literally, I've talked to two people who said they wanted to get their suitcases out and move out."
Whatever its long-term implications, that failure to endorse Tulsa County's $399 million river improvements package didn't diminish the metro economy's overall health. While it would have drawn perhaps the lion's share of economic struggles and benefits from riverfront development, Tulsa's retail market – Walman's specialty – remains in a growth mode.
Nowhere is that potential more evident than at the $130 million Tulsa Hills project now rising from the formerly wooded eastern slopes at U.S. Highway 75 and S. 71st Street. By giving west Tulsa its first large-scale retail choices in generations – including the metro area's first Target store west of Yale Avenue – the 146-acre development promises to radically change shopping patterns while creating a tax base in a long-neglected region.
"That southwest corridor is going to create a whole new market, an entire market that's not even there," said Bob Parker, vice president of retail leasing and marketing for GBR Properties. "That's kind of a wild thing."
Like the river, Tulsa Hills has drawn some extensive sugarplum visions. Some west Tulsa analysts have equated its long-term importance to that of the river proposals, saying the 695,000-square-foot Tulsa Hills could jump-start office and residential development as well as other retail, and not just along the high-traffic yet economically barren 75 corridor, but also along the two-mile stretch of 71st to the river.
While he questioned how widespread such investment could be, Richard H. Monaghan, a retail specialist with CB Richard Ellis of Oklahoma, expects Tulsa Hills to achieve a historic first: leading residents east of the Arkansas River to the western side for groceries and other essentials.
"It's huge for west Tulsa, and how that trade area is established is going to be very interest to see," said Walman.
For their part, developers Sooner Investment Realty in Oklahoma City and Collett & Associates of Charlotte, N.C., will help clarify that potential with pre-leasing announcements at 11 a.m. today.
Like the river proposals, Tulsa Hills did not come without a squabble over public funding – in this case, an estimated $16.5 million in bonds for a tax-increment financing (TIF) district, generating an expected $13.5 million to pay for sewer, street, drainage and other infrastructure needs.
The developers received that TIF after projecting Tulsa Hills could generate more than $5 million a year in new sales taxes for the City of Tulsa and $1.7 million for Tulsa County, as well as $1.1 million in new ad valorem taxes. The City of Tulsa Public Works and Development Department has estimated Tulsa Hills could fuel from $1.3 million to $2.5 million a year in ad valorem taxes and $1.3 million to $8.5 million in sales tax.
Whether Tulsa Hills meets or exceeds those marks will of course depend on consumer spending, an area that has some economists concerned after months of uncertainties over a credit crunch, inflation risks, stock market instabilities and other question marks cluttering the national landscape. Such fears comprised much of the talk Parker heard Thursday in the International Council of Shopping Centers regional conference at San Antonio.
"I think everybody is sort of holding their breath to see what holiday sales are going to be," he said. "I think everybody's scared that people may not spend as much as they did last year. This could be a sort of stable Christmas, which is not necessarily good in our business. It will be very interesting to see what the consumer does."
Monaghan, who returned Thursday from the San Antonio gathering, said it all boils down to how comfortable Tulsans feel about their job, income and debt levels.
"There's some pretty good vibes here," said Parker by phone from the conference. "I don't think anybody here thinks we're on the verge of a recession, but every retailer down the line has announced slower, more modest growth plans for the next 12 to 18 months. People are being more cautious. I don't know if it's an election year or the capital markets or other things. I think you're still going to see growth; it's just going to be slower."
All those factors spurred leasing concerns that impacted not just existing properties, but also a string of huge Tulsa-area prospects announced over the past year promising millions of square feet in additional space. Although some of those plans died with the river vote, and some even before, Walman said several large multimillion-dollar projects continue forward, although perhaps at a slower pace.
"It's been a tough year for us," said Parker. "Ours are existing properties in mature markets. There's always something new and sexier being built. But in the last 30 days, it's been crazy good. I'm probably going to lease more in the third quarter than I did in all of the three quarters earlier this year."
Walman, who is working on large projects in Owasso, Broken Arrow and south Tulsa, suggested some developers have refocused their projects in the face of pre-leasing difficulties. The most interesting case came in Broken Arrow, where Broken Arrow Development LLC bought 68 acres diagonally across from Bass Pro Shops for construction of a St. John Health System hospital.
Hospitals may seem unusual retail anchors, especially with Bass Pro nearby, although the original St. John campus has proven a long-term blessing for Tulsa's most attractive lifestyle center, Utica Square.
"St. John drove that deal, bringing the retail behind that deal," said Walman.
For Walman, the blessings and difficulties behind today's market pale against the long-term message he believes Tuesday's vote sends.
"I really thought the city of Tulsa was poised to identify itself and stand out there and say, 'We're picking back up and we're going to become the best city to live in,' like we used to say in this state," he said. "Our vote was just the opposite. Right now I'm just absorbing the fact that we're not living in the city I thought we were in.
"I'm still getting over the fact that our city just told the state and every resident in it that we're not interested in being progressive, we're not interested in creating a better city," he said. "Just give me an extra lane on our road and we're happy."
If it's any comfort, at the San Antonio conference Parker said he heard few negative reflections from outsiders watching the Tulsa vote.
"We were sitting at lunch with some Oklahoma City developers, people who would have known about it and would have been paying attention," he said. "But there was a lot of disappointment, obviously, from the business world because of the shortsightedness of the no voters and the us-versus-them mentality."

[sgrizzle]

Updated flyer showing stores and layout:
http://soonerinvestment.com/pdf_flyers/Tulsa_Hills-0607.pdf

[waterboy]

It sure makes Tulsa look...bad. Many of us have that same feeling right now. Especially the remark about "absorbing the fact that we're living in a different city than we thought we were in." Yes, it has changed since the last council fiasco when Medlock and those buffoons were in place. That was a tip off.

But I bet that the businessmen watching also noted that 48% of the community WAS that progressive force they want to see before investing here. And they had to know, that had it not been for the pr blunders and the controversial political climate the city is sludging through, there would have been 10% more added to the count.

Tulsa Hills will be a good shot in the arm for that quandrant.

[cannon_fodder]

Its nothing for Tulsa to get excited about.  To get there I would gave to drive 12 miles past at least one of each of those stores.  How boring.

But I still happy there is large scale new retail going in Tulsa.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Its nothing for Tulsa to get excited about.  To get there I would gave to drive 12 miles past at least one of each of those stores.  How boring.

But I still happy there is large scale new retail going in Tulsa.

One thing that makes me happy is that this will be a draw into the city limits for jenks, glenpool, bixby, sapulpa, etc. We should line the city limits with retail, take the suburbs money, and then build what we really need in the middle.

[TheArtist]

Yes, and I wouldnt worry about this competing with any potential River District or Tulsa Landing. Those are completely different animals. More attraction/shopping/destination. This Tulsa Hills is your "basic every day needs" ho hum shopping area. Growth in that area will be able to support it, and once the tiff is paid off, will bring more taxes to Tulsa. Its a good deal, but not meant to make Tulsa special. The main thing is to get the River District going and get Tulsa something along its west bank to act as lifestyle attractors.

[MichaelBates]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Its nothing for Tulsa to get excited about.  To get there I would gave to drive 12 miles past at least one of each of those stores.  How boring.

But I still happy there is large scale new retail going in Tulsa.

One thing that makes me happy is that this will be a draw into the city limits for jenks, glenpool, bixby, sapulpa, etc. We should line the city limits with retail, take the suburbs money, and then build what we really need in the middle.

That was the idea behind this TIF. The Tulsa Hills location was identified as one of two key retail development locations for the City of Tulsa. (The other is at I-44 and 129th East Ave.) The location will draw customers from Jenks, Glenpool, and Sapulpa, as well as west and south Tulsa. The list of tenants may not be inspiring, but people like to shop at those stores, and having located in Tulsa Hills, those chains probably won't be adding another location further south on U. S. 75 in Jenks or Glenpool.

The Artist makes a good point about competition with a Tulsa Landing or Jenks River District. Tulsa Hills is meant to be basic big box retail, so it shouldn't deter the kind of shops you find in Branson Landing from locating on the west bank.

[tulsa_fan]

It may be big box development, but I can't wait for it to open.  I live in Sand Springs, and yes, I'll be bringing more money back into the Tulsa area as I'll shop there . . . Hopefully we'll move back into the city limits in the next few years, and I think this type of development will help open up residential development other there that can still be within the city limits as well.

[jiminy]

Ok, I'm not even going to google what "Dressbarn" is, because the reality is probably far less entertaining than the image I have in my head right now.  Only in Oklahoma! []

[Chris Medlock]

[Especially the remark about "absorbing the fact that we're living in a different city than we thought we were in." Yes, it has changed since the last council fiasco when Medlock and those buffoons were in place. That was a tip off.]

I find it especially ironic that you so confidently refer to me as either a buffoon, or one who served with buffoons in a forum about Tulsa Hills and it's positive impact on Tulsa and the West Side. Why? Because it wasn't Darla Hall or Rick Westcott or even Randi Miller who used their council position to help bring Tulsa Hills to the Westside. It was moi.

I had to spend over a year being called "anti-development" without being able to mention the work I was doing with Sooner Development because I had signed a non-disclose. It was also me who had to beat back "Mr. Pro-Growth" Bill Martinson who tried to kill the TIF and thus Tulsa Hills.

I'm sure all of you who supported the River Tax want to play historical revisionism to put salve on your wounds, but I would support the Branson Landing development using a TIF, just as I worked my tail off for Tulsa Hills. In fact, the "Vote Yes" lead spokesperson, Randi Miller, even gave me the credit as the "main incentive to make [Tulsa Hills] happen." Don't believe me? Play the linked mp3 file.

Miller Thanks Medlock

Some are going to have to come to grips with the idea that Tulsa's development future is best served by trying to "grind out a bunch of singles, rather than always swinging for the fences" and thus risking an embarrassing strike out, like last Tuesday's.

[TheArtist]

Good job Chris on helping get the Tulsa Hills project here. I would love it if we could get that Tulsa Landing or something like it or better on the west bank, and a tiff is fine with me on that project.  

I also agree that not every project has to be a huge mega deal.

The Channels people would say that we need a big project, a big boulder thrown into the pond, to create a big ripple effect. I remember someone saying quite wisely that a lot of small rocks and pebbles, when coordinated, can have the same effect.

Whether a big boulder or lots of small rocks, both can create a lot of waves. But lets start throwing something lol. If your gonna do the small rock approach ya have to keep at it, its not a one off thing, and have an over all vision and plan, and make sure each rock keeps to that vision.

[dsjeffries]

I guess I never really understood just how HUGE this development is... (as in acres and square feet).  I just looked at the layout and was blown away.  It reminds me of the development in SW Oklahoma City along I-40, with a hotel being the only thing Tulsa Hills lacks in comparison..  This opens up a lot of possibility for the West Side...

quote:Originally posted by jiminy

Ok, I'm not even going to google what "Dressbarn" is, because the reality is probably far less entertaining than the image I have in my head right now.  Only in Oklahoma! []

Actually, the first Dress Barn I'd ever seen was in Manhattan, smack dab in the middle of New York City...so it's not an 'only in Oklahoma' thing []

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

Good job Chris on helping get the Tulsa Hills project here. I would love it if we could get that Tulsa Landing or something like it or better on the west bank, and a tiff is fine with me on that project.  

I also agree that not every project has to be a huge mega deal.

The Channels people would say that we need a big project, a big boulder thrown into the pond, to create a big ripple effect. I remember someone saying quite wisely that a lot of small rocks and pebbles, when coordinated, can have the same effect.

Whether a big boulder or lots of small rocks, both can create a lot of waves. But lets start throwing something lol. If your gonna do the small rock approach ya have to keep at it, its not a one off thing, and have an over all vision and plan, and make sure each rock keeps to that vision.

Oh, stop with the kissing up and deference. Listen to this guy on idiot radio then come back and try to compliment him.

So you were the driving force on the Hills Mr. M., that's great. But what happened afterwards? You suddenly joined a group of people who are an embarassment to our city and reflect badly on your past accomplishments. And whether you were a buffoon or not, the vision left from that council time period, is of buffoonish behavior on all sides.

And who's playing revisionism here? No one said you weren't involved in that development. Just referenced the chimp show that no one was enjoying during that council run. This city has changed in the last 20-25 years. Those of us who weren't in middle school back then are astounded that such a meager plan became so controversial and divided our cities against each other and ourselves. You are part of that change whether you like it or not.

Tuesday wasn't an attempt at a home run, it was an attempt to sober up the team and take the field for heavens sake.