Surprise, Surprise, The City Is Running Out Of $$$

[Conan71]

I heard on KRMG this morning that the city is running a little short on cash.

What a brilliant time for Ms. Taylor's cronies at-will employees to get a raise and for the counselor's to seek the same.

That's some "CEO" we got there.

[NellieBly]

If you recall, the city was short on cash when LaFortuna was mayor, as well. It's a problem we've had  for a while

[MichaelC]

That's just about the only reason we're talking about annexing the Fairgrounds.  Sources for city revenue are somewhat limited.  And for the last few years, some sources are not growing at the rate they normally would.

[sgrizzle]

C'mon oklahoma lawmakers, let the city get a piece of the property tax pie..

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by NellieBly

If you recall, the city was short on cash when LaFortuna was mayor, as well. It's a problem we've had  for a while

...Since the 70's apparently.

From yesterday's Tulsa World:

quote: Official: City's income not meeting its need

Some may view the proposed annexation of the Tulsa County fairgrounds as a money grab by the city, Martinson said, but they'd be missing the point.

"I, too, feel taxed to death, but the city of Tulsa has been operating from the same revenue source since before I could drive," he said, highlighting that the 2 percent sales tax rate to fund operations has been in place since 1971.

Michael Bates has some additional analysis and a link to Martinson's Report:  The Box We're In

It's pretty shocking stuff.  The city gets hit from all sides.  Since 1971, the Fed's have cut their funding by over 2/3rds...The county took the city's portion of property tax (and now won't give it back).  Also, the State, which will be flush with oil and gas revenues for years if not decades, takes more than half of the city's 8.5% sales tax.   Also, the State collects the sales tax and apparently they do a sh*tty job at that, too.

Whatever you think about raises, I don't think it would fix a problem this big.  I believe the economics term is "macro-effed".  There ain't a mayor in the world that can change this by his or herself.  The State has to change some rules.

[pmcalk]

Could anyone explain to me about the County portion of the ad valorem tax that many claim the city should be entitled to?  I don't quite understand that--did we turn over part of our ad valorem tax to the county?  When did we ever get a portion of that tax?  If municipalities are not entitled to use ad valorem tax, why are some asking the county to give us some?

And for all of the conservatives out there, while the republicans in the state house & senate continue to beat the drum for income tax reduction, why have we not heard a peep about state sales tax reduction?  Instead of forcing cities to exempt items from sales tax, why not just remove the 4 cents across the board?  Keep the income tax at 6.35, eliminate the state's portion of sales tax.  The amount of money the average tax payer would save would be about the same.

[Chicken Little]

From Martinson's report:



This chart does the work of 100 Davaz's.

[Chicken Little]

Also from the Report:

Yet another way the State gigs Tulsa:

[Chicken Little]

Drilled.

[patric]

Well, we have enough money to replace each mediocre streetlight with three worthless ones in parts of the city.  How we're going to pay the 3X electric bill will probably be the next administration's problem.
(hey, the City Energy Policy was under someone else's administration, anyway).

There is some  inspiration, though.

Of course properly maintaining reflective roadway markings is another alternative to saving on your electric bill.
.
.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

Could anyone explain to me about the County portion of the ad valorem tax that many claim the city should be entitled to?  I don't quite understand that--did we turn over part of our ad valorem tax to the county?  When did we ever get a portion of that tax?  If municipalities are not entitled to use ad valorem tax, why are some asking the county to give us some?

And for all of the conservatives out there, while the republicans in the state house & senate continue to beat the drum for income tax reduction, why have we not heard a peep about state sales tax reduction?  Instead of forcing cities to exempt items from sales tax, why not just remove the 4 cents across the board?  Keep the income tax at 6.35, eliminate the state's portion of sales tax.  The amount of money the average tax payer would save would be about the same.

The story I've heard, two times now, is that the City and County both used to get a small allotment of property tax for retiring debt, i.e., a sinking fund.  Back in the 80s, when the County was hurting, the City gave the County its half.  Now they won't give it back.
Evidence?

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by NellieBly

If you recall, the city was short on cash when LaFortuna was mayor, as well. It's a problem we've had  for a while

And is that justification for these ill-timed pay increases at the top?

As I recall the short-fall was due to lower gross sales tax revenues due to the slump in the economy in '01 and '02.

There doesn't seem to be any shortage of new retailers collecting sales tax for the city these days, nor people spending money.

[shadows]

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

That's just about the only reason we're talking about annexing the Fairgrounds.  Sources for city revenue are somewhat limited.  And for the last few years, some sources are not growing at the rate they normally would.

The city  since WWll  has never been a friendly city as the gap between the working poor and the aged in retirement whereas the dreams of the present city bureaucracies  over shadow common sense.  
Double dipping has a strangle hold on affordable infrastructure  which has caused the cost of owning property to skyrocket faster than the space station.  Not in one's wildest dreams can they justify  the increasing cost of city operations that straddles the shoulders of the afflicted working poor.  It seem the intent of the city administrators to turn over every rock to find if there is something beneath that can be taxable.  

There are many opening for additional taxes that are waved before the public but like the sacred cow news papers and TV advertisement is an untouched source that could be explored.

The county cannot perform an accrete audit of the venders nor can OTC under pressure categorize the total sales subject to fair sales taxes, nor would traveling venders do more that a contribution as sales taxes.   The city might install a use tax for those using the ground within the city limits.   Renting to others ground they do not own.

Well that subjection possible bands me from this form .

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

quote:Originally posted by MichaelC

That's just about the only reason we're talking about annexing the Fairgrounds.  Sources for city revenue are somewhat limited.  And for the last few years, some sources are not growing at the rate they normally would.

The city might install a use tax for those using the ground within the city limits.   Renting to others ground they do not own.

Well that subjection possible bands me from this form .

Interesting idea, Shadow-man.  Except that landlords would just pass that tax onto the renters, so it'd end up being just another poor tax.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

quote:Originally posted by NellieBly

If you recall, the city was short on cash when LaFortuna was mayor, as well. It's a problem we've had  for a while

And is that justification for these ill-timed pay increases at the top?

As I recall the short-fall was due to lower gross sales tax revenues due to the slump in the economy in '01 and '02.

There doesn't seem to be any shortage of new retailers collecting sales tax for the city these days, nor people spending money.

I don't think anybody is trying to justify raises one way or another.

Martinson's report, the KRMG story, the World story, etc. is about Tulsa getting ganged every year by these guys.  Do you have an opinion about that?