Tulsa vs Suburbs (schools)

[saintinthecity]

I apologize if this has been discussed before. I did a search and did not see this topic.

I just moved here with my family (wife, 3 and 6 year olds). My wife is from here (Union schools)and her family is still here. My wife and her family all say Tulsa schools are bad but they cannot tell me why.

I would like to live in town in an older, established neighborhood with some character and convenience, such as 61st and Sheridan area, Brookside, Southern Hills, etc. The family says Broken Arrow or Jenks.

Can anyone here give me their opinion or experiences on either side. Thanks.

[Kiah]

Though it's strangely popular to say so, Tulsa Public Schools are not bad.  In fact, many schools within the TPS system are quite good, and a few (Booker T. Washington) are world class.

It is true that TPS educates more poor students, and more students who aren't prepared for learning because of their home environments.  That is not the same thing as the suggestion that TPS is a bad school district.

[sgrizzle]

I was raised in union which covers parts of Tulsa and BA. Some say TPS has some of the best schools and some say they have the worst. I think both may be right. What Union, BA, and Jenks have is a generally wealthier tax base and student base. That alone doesn't make a school better, but it makes it easier to afford.

Personally, I can't stand to live in any of the suburbs. Too "stepford wives" for me.

[pmcalk]

I believe that there is much misinformation that gets passed along regarding Tulsa Public Schools.  Much of that stems from improper comparisons, and not looking at the big picture.  Tulsa has almost 60 elementary schools, some of which are excellent, and some of which are lousy.  Some of that is a result of the circumstances of its location and students.  Jenks has only 3 elementary schools; I believe Union has around the same.  I don't think its appropriate to compare the entire school districts to eachother, as it fails to take into count that they serve different populations.  On the other hand, if you compare the best schools within TPS to Jenks or Union, I believe they would prove equal if not better.  Among elementary schools, Carnegie, Lee, Elliot, Eisenhower, & Mayo tend to be ranked among the best for TPS.  In Jenks, Southeast is usually cited as the best.  If you compare test scores of Carnegie to Jenks SE, for example, you will find that Carnegie scores are comparable.  Also, Carnegie has a higher percentage of teacher's with masters.  My concern with Jenks in particular is the size of the schools.

From what I have heard, the same is true at middle & high school levels.  In fact, I have heard that Union has had trouble with gangs.  I am sure that TPS has similar problems in some of its schools.  Ultimately, you cannot simply look at the school districts.  Before you buy a home, look at the specific schools that your child will attend.  Keeping in mind that TPS will allow you to transfer to any school that has space.

[DM]

Union has 12 elementary schools and are preparing to build # 13 at the land behind the St Francis Heart Hospital. Land is owned by Union and the money to build was just passed on Feb 14th.

[sgrizzle]

Union has 12 elementary schools, TPS has 58. TPS is the largest district in oklahoma so yeah, it's hard to say the whole district is one way or the other. You can transfer (if they have space) within the district freely, except for the magnet schools, which have special requirements.

[cannon_fodder]

My son is in Tulsa Public Schools.  He was going to the TU school but my wife and I didnt feel the cost of private school was worth it for a younger child.

I am very pleased thus far with TPS.  He is finishing up his second year at TPS and we are satisfied with his learning, facilities, and atmosphere.  We live in near 28th and Harvard and he goes to Patrick Henry.  

I went to private schools for most of my education and I believe his quality of education approaches mine (facilities are nicer!).

In my most humble of opinions, the "best schools" in Tulsa are those with the most high profile football programs.  Union, Jenks, and Broken Arrow are the football power houses in the area and are also rumored to be the best schools.  Could just be a coincidence... but it is true that those three are the top football schools in the area if not the state/region.

To be sure, I have never heard that they have poor educational track records... just sayin' great football certainly doesnt hurt your appeal in Tulsa.

I also am glad to live in midtown, I highly encourage you to look around the area before moving to another subdivision.  I can walk to 10+ restaurants, a couple bars, a grocery store, movie place... 5 minutes from downtown, 5 minutes from TU, 10 minutes from the airport, 5 minutes from a mall.  I'll probably never leave midtown.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

My son is in Tulsa Public Schools.  He was going to the TU school but my wife and I didnt feel the cost of private school was worth it for a younger child.

I am very pleased thus far with TPS.  He is finishing up his second year at TPS and we are satisfied with his learning, facilities, and atmosphere.  We live in near 28th and Harvard and he goes to Patrick Henry.  

I went to private schools for most of my education and I believe his quality of education approaches mine (facilities are nicer!).

In my most humble of opinions, the "best schools" in Tulsa are those with the most high profile football programs.  Union, Jenks, and Broken Arrow are the football power houses in the area and are also rumored to be the best schools.  Could just be a coincidence... but it is true that those three are the top football schools in the area if not the state/region.

To be sure, I have never heard that they have poor educational track records... just sayin' great football certainly doesnt hurt your appeal in Tulsa.

I also am glad to live in midtown, I highly encourage you to look around the area before moving to another subdivision.  I can walk to 10+ restaurants, a couple bars, a grocery store, movie place... 5 minutes from downtown, 5 minutes from TU, 10 minutes from the airport, 5 minutes from a mall.  I'll probably never leave midtown.

if you want your kid to have consistent access to newer facilities and learning tools, stay in Union or move to Jenks.  for that matter Bixby is pretty up and coming and they dont have what I would call a good football team.

i would agree with the Union problem with gangs though because their district NE corner serves parts of east Tulsa.  i would consider the problems pretty lame though compared to gang problems in some TPS schools.

[saintinthecity]

Thanks for your well thought out and informative resonses.

From what I gather, the "Tulsa schools are bad" opinions I hear do not apply across the board. We currently live in far east BA (just moved here, renting a house until we decide where to put down roots) and my 6yo goes to Jenks west because my wife works there. Obviously she is biased, but I haven't bought into the Jenks thing yet. Property taxes are higher and I have not been convinced it is worth it.

I'm not impressed with BA and the 2000 student high school for 11th and 12th grades so it is out of the question for the future. I'm a "city" kind of guy and looking for some ammo to fight the in laws.

I'll continue to do my due diligence. Thanks again for your input and I look forward to learning more about Tulsa.

BTW, what's up with the grocery tax?

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by saintinthecity

Thanks for your well thought out and informative resonses.

Property taxes are higher and I have not been convinced it is worth it.

where did you hear that?  When we were looking at houses, everything was higher in BA tax wise.  Thats why we settled in Jenks.

oh and when the husband fights his inlaws he always loses.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by saintinthecity

BTW, what's up with the grocery tax?

In my opinion, Tulsa public schools have no more problems on a per capita basis than Jenks, Union, BA, just more students and school buildings so more publicized "problems."  The suburban school districs are no saints and have had the same problems as TPS has had in the past.  Even private schools are not totally safe havens for kids, although they like to picture themselves as such.

The grocery tax - Oklahoma applies sales taxes to most all goods that are sold in the state, clothing and groceries included.  Some items are exempt such as prescription drugs and motor vehicles, but vehicles have their own "excise" taxes.  Services, such as repair shops, doctors, lawyers, etc. are not subject to sales taxes, YET.  Oklahoma real estate taxes are relatively low, and the state income tax is pretty low too.  There are no county or city income taxes.

Government is going to get the money it wants some way, either sales, property, income taxes, use taxes, license fees, whatever.  On the whole, Oklahoma is probably somewhere in the middle of all states on a total tax burden basis.  I too find sales tax on groceries rather odious, as it is very regressive and hurts the poor the most.  But you can bet that if they make groceries exempt from tax, some other new tax will most certainly take its place.

[Porky]

Ok, I got my helment on so you all can start the throwing of the rocks. [B)]

I would suggest Jenks, Broken Arrow or Owasso.

All 3 have good school systems. Jenks is the wealthy suburb, Broken Arrow has the most to offer and Owasso is absolutely great for a smaller school system.

jmo []

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by Porky

Ok, I got my helment on so you all can start the throwing of the rocks. [B)]

I would suggest Jenks, Broken Arrow or Owasso.

All 3 have good school systems. Jenks is the wealthy suburb, Broken Arrow has the most to offer and Owasso is absolutely great for a smaller school system.

jmo []

No rocks from me, your opinions are just as valid as mine.  I am a product of TulsaPS; I attended TulsaPS from 1962-1975.  John Paul Jones K-6 (now closed), Eli Whitney Jr. High 7-9, and Nathan Hale High 10-12.  I guess my opinions are slightly biased.  I think I received a top notch education here, but I know times and society have changed.

From what I have read, it seems TulsaPS is trying to turn each high school into a "magnet" school of sorts, with different schools specializing in a particular area of career interest.  For example, Nathan Hale HS is developing special courses in home economics/cooking/restaurant management.  Other high schools are offering specialized courses in other career areas.  If your child expresses a particular career ambition, it may be beneficial to investigate each individual high school and their course offerings, as the old-fashioned generic high school (in the Tulsa district) seems to be a thing of the past.

[pmcalk]

No rocks from me either--if I sounded as though I was putting down the other school districts, that was not my intention.  There's good & bad in all school districts.   Bottom line, live where you feel most comfortable; don't let the schools be the deciding voice, because you can find satisfactory schools at any location.  By the way, the fact that you are paying that much attention to the school systems says that you & your family value education--that right there is the key to your child's success more so than any other factor.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

quote:Originally posted by Porky

Ok, I got my helment on so you all can start the throwing of the rocks. [B)]

I would suggest Jenks, Broken Arrow or Owasso.

All 3 have good school systems. Jenks is the wealthy suburb, Broken Arrow has the most to offer and Owasso is absolutely great for a smaller school system.

jmo []

No rocks from me, your opinions are just as valid as mine.  I am a product of TulsaPS; I attended TulsaPS from 1962-1975, so I guess my opinions are slightly biased.  I think I received a top notch education here, but I know times and society have changed.

From what I have read, it seems TulsaPS is trying to turn each high school into a "magnet" school of sorts, with different schools specializing in a particular area of career interest.  For example, Nathan Hale HS is developing special courses in home economics/cooking/restaurant management.  Other high schools are offering specialized courses in other career areas.  If your child expresses a particular career ambition, it may be beneficial to investigate each individual high school and their course offerings, as the old-fashioned generic high school (in the Tulsa district) seems to be a thing of the past.

magnet schools are a failure, little rock does that...