Tulsa vs Suburbs (schools)

[inteller]

i think you may be trying to hard to win against the in laws, and you can never win that battle.

[MH2010]

People always defend the Tulsa School District by pointing to Booker T. Washington. BTW is a great school but that is because it is a  magnet school.  BTW picks the children they want to attend their school.  It is quite competitive to get in. Here is the minimum criteria (and they do mean minimum)

Minimum criteria for admission are as follows:*
*NOTE: Admission teams shall have the authority to admit a maximum of 10% of any entering class who are TPS residents and not otherwise qualified. These admissions decisions are to be based upon extenuating circumstances or conditions as determined by the admission teams and approved by the principal.

A. The successful completion of a middle school program through eighth grade or its equivalent.
B. Superb attendance: No more than 5 absences during the application year and no more than 10 absences during the year immediately prior to the application year.
(NOTE: Students with medically documented chronic/serious illnesses or other extenuating circumstances leading to excessive absences may be considered on a case-by-case basis. Such documentation must be provided in writing by the parents/guardians and included with the application packet.)
C. Excellent behavior: Suspensions out of school during the application year or during the year immediately prior to the application year may preclude consideration for admission.
D. Scores at the thirty-fifth percentile or above on both the reading and mathematics components of the most current standardized academic measurements typically available (or their equivalents) AND grade point averages at or above 2.50 on a 4.00 scale for the first semester of the application year and for the year immediately preceding the application year.
5. An Admission Recommendation Form prepared and signed by a minimum of three (3) faculty/staff at the applicant's current or most recent school who have knowledge of the applicant's potential for success.

If your child is not chosen to attend BTW then you need to consult the Tulsa Public School boundary map to see what school your child will attend.  I would really do my homework on the other schools before you move into the district assuming that your child will be admitted into BTW.

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by saintinthecity


Thanks for your response. So I guess if I choose Memorial, Booker T or the Brookside school (can't remember the name) districts I have some ammo to support me against living in BA or Jenks.

I think you would be on equal basis with them. Not sure what school your referring to as Brookside however.

One of the main reasons I don't live in Tulsa anymore is the cost. You can spend $150,000 for an old home that needs repair in midtown or you can buy a beautiful new home in the suburbs for the same price or less. I'd say the choice is all up to you. []

[saintinthecity]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

i think you may be trying to hard to win against the in laws, and you can never win that battle.

Thanks to the great info I have received from you guys I will have no problem living in TPS if that is the best thing for us. It seems to be a six of one / half a dozen of another kind of thing. Maybe I have overstated the amount of influence the in laws would have. Not a problem.

Maybe you need some more scene control [}:)]

[saintinthecity]

quote:Originally posted by Porky

quote:Originally posted by saintinthecity


Thanks for your response. So I guess if I choose Memorial, Booker T or the Brookside school (can't remember the name) districts I have some ammo to support me against living in BA or Jenks.

I think you would be on equal basis with them. Not sure what school your referring to as Brookside however.

One of the main reasons I don't live in Tulsa anymore is the cost. You can spend $150,000 for an old home that needs repair in midtown or you can buy a beautiful new home in the suburbs for the same price or less. I'd say the choice is all up to you. []

I am referring to the high school that serves the Brookside area. Maybe I am a little off on that. Near 51st and Lewis?

[OurTulsa]

quote:Originally posted by saintinthecity

quote:Originally posted by Porky

quote:Originally posted by saintinthecity


Thanks for your response. So I guess if I choose Memorial, Booker T or the Brookside school (can't remember the name) districts I have some ammo to support me against living in BA or Jenks.

I think you would be on equal basis with them. Not sure what school your referring to as Brookside however.

One of the main reasons I don't live in Tulsa anymore is the cost. You can spend $150,000 for an old home that needs repair in midtown or you can buy a beautiful new home in the suburbs for the same price or less. I'd say the choice is all up to you. []

I am referring to the high school that serves the Brookside area. Maybe I am a little off on that. Near 51st and Lewis?

TPS has many great schools to choose from.  Their schools in the more interesting parts of town are probably some of their better.  Both Lee (near 18th/Boston and Cherry St.) and Eliot (just off of Brookside) are great, great schools in walkable parts of town.  You can do like I do, walk the little one to the coffee shop in the morning to enjoy a half/bagel while I enjoy my cup and then we casually walk up to class and I move off to work.  I don't walk every day but some and it's quite enjoyable.  You can do that with both schools.  Try that in arterial land...er...I'm mean suburbia.
When we don't walk I am a two minute drive (literally) from school and then 4 minutes to work and absolutely NO traffic.

I don't need to argue for the schools but I was in the same boat as you sound like your in.  My wife heard all these terrible things about inner-city schools and I had to convince her.  Drive her through the neighborhoods in the Lee or Eliot elementary school districts and then visit both schools; compare tests - we did and were quite pleased with how these two schools performed compared to the 'better suburban schools' and felt like we got a better living environment to boot.  

We feel like we have the best there is to offer at Lee: great school, great neighborhood, proximity to great parts of town and the river, absolutely no traffic compared to down there.

We absolutely intend to try to get into Carver (the feeder middle school for BTW) but will happily go to Edison M.S. and then to Edison H.S. (41st btwn Lewis and Harvard)if we don't qualify.  We are comfortable with Edison as a high school education option.

I feel like I am striking a nice balance for my child in that we have access to a diverse school, many cultural amenities around our neighborhood, and helping her to develop an appreciation for a City as opposed to growing up think that NEW means better.

[OurTulsa]

quote:Originally posted by Porky

[quote
I think you would be on equal basis with them. Not sure what school your referring to as Brookside however.

One of the main reasons I don't live in Tulsa anymore is the cost. You can spend $150,000 for an old home that needs repair in midtown or you can buy a beautiful new home in the suburbs for the same price or less. I'd say the choice is all up to you. []

Look deeper young pork.  150K probably got you some slapstick of a crackerbox.  Feel your doors, tap your walls and windows.  I bet you notice that they are pretty thin and light.  That's probably not the latest cutting edge technology, that's probably called cheap materials.  150K in the burbs gets you garbage.  Sorry I've looked through too many of them with one of my previous jobs.

$150K with two kids will get you a decent 3br bungalow in Swan Lake (Lee Elementary) or a modest home around Brookside (Eliot Elementary).  While you may have to sand and repaint some trim, repair some old plumbing from time to time or refinish some gorgeous wood floors chances are you will get a sturdy home.  

Let's also talk about appreciation.  Pork I can only imagine the hood you are probably referring to will be depreciating within say 10 years of construction.  New subs with 150K homes are a dime a dozen and far short of spectacular.  There is nothing unique about them or of value that will keep people there once the 'new' wears off.

Swan Lake, on the other hand, is appreciating.  We have very few hoods in Tulsa like it.  While it saw its hard times, those are long gone.  And I would advise you to get in while you can at 150K.  Neighborhoods like this in other cities, you can't get into for less than 300K.  I don't think some of our innercity hoods are too far from that.    

BTW, in this day and age 150K won't get you paradise anywhere.

[Porky]

quote:Originally posted by OurTulsa


Look deeper young pork.  150K probably got you some slapstick of a crackerbox.  Feel your doors, tap your walls and windows.  I bet you notice that they are pretty thin and light.  That's probably not the latest cutting edge technology, that's probably called cheap materials.  150K in the burbs gets you garbage.  Sorry I've looked through too many of them with one of my previous jobs.

$150K with two kids will get you a decent 3br bungalow in Swan Lake (Lee Elementary) or a modest home around Brookside (Eliot Elementary).  While you may have to sand and repaint some trim, repair some old plumbing from time to time or refinish some gorgeous wood floors chances are you will get a sturdy home.  

Let's also talk about appreciation.  Pork I can only imagine the hood you are probably referring to will be depreciating within say 10 years of construction.  New subs with 150K homes are a dime a dozen and far short of spectacular.  There is nothing unique about them or of value that will keep people there once the 'new' wears off.

Swan Lake, on the other hand, is appreciating.  We have very few hoods in Tulsa like it.  While it saw its hard times, those are long gone.  And I would advise you to get in while you can at 150K.  Neighborhoods like this in other cities, you can't get into for less than 300K.  I don't think some of our innercity hoods are too far from that.    

BTW, in this day and age 150K won't get you paradise anywhere.

I agree the quality of home building isn't what it use to be. I was also referring to midtown in my original post for the example of Tulsa.

IMO the best quality homes for the money would be south Tulsa in the Yale-Memorial area. These homes are around 30 years old are are very well built. Also the yards have plenty of full grown trees and etc. I think they go for around $65-$70 a sq ft.

New homes in the burbs are all under $100 sq ft unless custom built and there are many good contractors building them. As there are poor contractors as well. It doesn't take much to see who is who when looking at an addition.

[saintinthecity]

quote:Originally posted by OurTulsa

quote:Originally posted by saintinthecity

quote:Originally posted by Porky

quote:Originally posted by saintinthecity


Thanks for your response. So I guess if I choose Memorial, Booker T or the Brookside school (can't remember the name) districts I have some ammo to support me against living in BA or Jenks.

I think you would be on equal basis with them. Not sure what school your referring to as Brookside however.

One of the main reasons I don't live in Tulsa anymore is the cost. You can spend $150,000 for an old home that needs repair in midtown or you can buy a beautiful new home in the suburbs for the same price or less. I'd say the choice is all up to you. []

I am referring to the high school that serves the Brookside area. Maybe I am a little off on that. Near 51st and Lewis?

TPS has many great schools to choose from.  Their schools in the more interesting parts of town are probably some of their better.  Both Lee (near 18th/Boston and Cherry St.) and Eliot (just off of Brookside) are great, great schools in walkable parts of town.  You can do like I do, walk the little one to the coffee shop in the morning to enjoy a half/bagel while I enjoy my cup and then we casually walk up to class and I move off to work.  I don't walk every day but some and it's quite enjoyable.  You can do that with both schools.  Try that in arterial land...er...I'm mean suburbia.
When we don't walk I am a two minute drive (literally) from school and then 4 minutes to work and absolutely NO traffic.

I don't need to argue for the schools but I was in the same boat as you sound like your in.  My wife heard all these terrible things about inner-city schools and I had to convince her.  Drive her through the neighborhoods in the Lee or Eliot elementary school districts and then visit both schools; compare tests - we did and were quite pleased with how these two schools performed compared to the 'better suburban schools' and felt like we got a better living environment to boot.  

We feel like we have the best there is to offer at Lee: great school, great neighborhood, proximity to great parts of town and the river, absolutely no traffic compared to down there.

We absolutely intend to try to get into Carver (the feeder middle school for BTW) but will happily go to Edison M.S. and then to Edison H.S. (41st btwn Lewis and Harvard)if we don't qualify.  We are comfortable with Edison as a high school education option.

I feel like I am striking a nice balance for my child in that we have access to a diverse school, many cultural amenities around our neighborhood, and helping her to develop an appreciation for a City as opposed to growing up think that NEW means better.

BINGO!!! That's the kind of environment I'm talking about. My wife already likes the idea of city life but she was concerned about quality schools. Thanks for your insight !

Edison is the school I was thinking of. Thanks for the great info!

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by Porky

Ok, I got my helment on so you all can start the throwing of the rocks. [B)]

I would suggest Jenks, Broken Arrow or Owasso.

All 3 have good school systems. Jenks is the wealthy suburb, Broken Arrow has the most to offer and Owasso is absolutely great for a smaller school system.

jmo []

BA wasn't exactly the most proactive school system in the Tulsa area, which is a good reason i moved into TPS.

[AVERAGE JOE]

The dynamics of the Tulsa area's public education systems couldn't be easier to explain. Union, Broken Arrow and Jenks don't have the low-performing and/or problem schools because their populations are more hemogenous socioeconomically. TPS school vary dramatically because of the vastly differing socioeconomic conditions in the city.

And before you throw out your shoulder reaching for the mouse, it's not a race thing. Poor kids tend to perform worse in school regardless of race. By and large, Union, Jenks and Broken Arrow school districts are devoid of economically depressed areas. The housing stock is more uniform and provides stronger revenues.

TPS has the best public schools and worst public schools in the metro area, simply because the district covers the best and worst economic conditions in the city.

btw, I love how the Porkman stated his post about "offering" gang-ridden schools. As if the school board sat around and decided, "you know what, let's offer Gang Warfare as an extracurricular activity this fall." Porky, there are gang-ridden schools because they're located in gang-ridden areas and the public schools are REQUIRED to provide education for everybody. If every gang member in Tulsa moved to 71st & Mingo, you know which schools would be gang-ridden? That's right, Union.

[pmcalk]

^I hear Union already has that problem.

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

^I hear Union already has that problem.

But hey, they had a good football prgram, so ya can't hold that against them!

[daddys little squirt]

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

People always defend the Tulsa School District by pointing to Booker T. Washington. BTW is a great school but that is because it is a  magnet school.  BTW picks the children they want to attend their school.  It is quite competitive to get in. Here is the minimum criteria (and they do mean minimum)

Minimum criteria for admission are as follows:*
*NOTE: Admission teams shall have the authority to admit a maximum of 10% of any entering class who are TPS residents and not otherwise qualified. These admissions decisions are to be based upon extenuating circumstances or conditions as determined by the admission teams and approved by the principal.

A. The successful completion of a middle school program through eighth grade or its equivalent.
B. Superb attendance: No more than 5 absences during the application year and no more than 10 absences during the year immediately prior to the application year.
(NOTE: Students with medically documented chronic/serious illnesses or other extenuating circumstances leading to excessive absences may be considered on a case-by-case basis. Such documentation must be provided in writing by the parents/guardians and included with the application packet.)
C. Excellent behavior: Suspensions out of school during the application year or during the year immediately prior to the application year may preclude consideration for admission.
D. Scores at the thirty-fifth percentile or above on both the reading and mathematics components of the most current standardized academic measurements typically available (or their equivalents) AND grade point averages at or above 2.50 on a 4.00 scale for the first semester of the application year and for the year immediately preceding the application year.
5. An Admission Recommendation Form prepared and signed by a minimum of three (3) faculty/staff at the applicant's current or most recent school who have knowledge of the applicant's potential for success.

If your child is not chosen to attend BTW then you need to consult the Tulsa Public School boundary map to see what school your child will attend.  I would really do my homework on the other schools before you move into the district assuming that your child will be admitted into BTW.

You imply that these are unusually high criteria. From what I read of your post they must have attended class, not gotten into trouble routinely, know their teachers and counselors and make a 2.5gpa. 35th percentile in math and reading seems unusually low. The criteria describes a rather average, well adjusted student not "chosen" like those who attend private schools. Enough of the cherry picking remarks. BTW earns its reputation with excellent teaching and students who are ready to learn. Edison will soon build the same reputation and then Memorial.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by daddys little squirt

quote:Originally posted by MH2010

People always defend the Tulsa School District by pointing to Booker T. Washington. BTW is a great school but that is because it is a  magnet school.  BTW picks the children they want to attend their school.  It is quite competitive to get in. Here is the minimum criteria (and they do mean minimum)

Minimum criteria for admission are as follows:*
*NOTE: Admission teams shall have the authority to admit a maximum of 10% of any entering class who are TPS residents and not otherwise qualified. These admissions decisions are to be based upon extenuating circumstances or conditions as determined by the admission teams and approved by the principal.

A. The successful completion of a middle school program through eighth grade or its equivalent.
B. Superb attendance: No more than 5 absences during the application year and no more than 10 absences during the year immediately prior to the application year.
(NOTE: Students with medically documented chronic/serious illnesses or other extenuating circumstances leading to excessive absences may be considered on a case-by-case basis. Such documentation must be provided in writing by the parents/guardians and included with the application packet.)
C. Excellent behavior: Suspensions out of school during the application year or during the year immediately prior to the application year may preclude consideration for admission.
D. Scores at the thirty-fifth percentile or above on both the reading and mathematics components of the most current standardized academic measurements typically available (or their equivalents) AND grade point averages at or above 2.50 on a 4.00 scale for the first semester of the application year and for the year immediately preceding the application year.
5. An Admission Recommendation Form prepared and signed by a minimum of three (3) faculty/staff at the applicant's current or most recent school who have knowledge of the applicant's potential for success.

If your child is not chosen to attend BTW then you need to consult the Tulsa Public School boundary map to see what school your child will attend.  I would really do my homework on the other schools before you move into the district assuming that your child will be admitted into BTW.

You imply that these are unusually high criteria. From what I read of your post they must have attended class, not gotten into trouble routinely, know their teachers and counselors and make a 2.5gpa. 35th percentile in math and reading seems unusually low. The criteria describes a rather average, well adjusted student not "chosen" like those who attend private schools. Enough of the cherry picking remarks. BTW earns its reputation with excellent teaching and students who are ready to learn. Edison will soon build the same reputation and then Memorial.

Not quite, these are minimums to even apply, they then take the top applicants, meeting these standards does NOT mean that you get in. It only  means you are allowed to apply.