Moving City Hall

[Double A]

You might want to show a little more respect to the folks paying your salary there A.J.

BTW, I support a new city hall that consolidates city services in one place at a new location. I think One Tech Center is absolutely the wrong place for it.

Once Again, why is it that a city like Austin(the 16th largest city in the U.S) can get by 115,300 sq/ft city hall, but 500,000 sq ft is not big enough for the city of Tulsa's(the 44th largest city in the U.S.) government?

[Wrinkle]

Last we heard, a hotel wasn't feasible downtown without a $60 Million subsidy from taxpayers.

Given that, a 2nd major hotel development on abandoned City Hall property probably would only cost us a total of $120 Million or so, eh?

Add the $80M+ for the new place, and we're right up there with the revised arena cost.

[Wrinkle]

BTW, I just want to point out a widely used term around town, that is "deferred maintenance".

Translation: "We haven't been doing our job, or what's required to maintain our public facilities, so now we have a real problem which only a lot of money can fix."

If I see one more video clip of a wet, dripping ceiling tile on the news, I'm going to croak.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

You might want to show a little more respect to the folks paying your salary there A.J.

BTW, I support a new city hall that consolidates city services in one place at a new location. I think One Tech Center is absolutely the wrong place for it.

Once Again, why is it that a city like Austin(the 16th largest city in the U.S) can get by 115,300 sq/ft city hall, but 500,000 sq ft is not big enough for the city of Tulsa's(the 44th largest city in the U.S.) government?

But why do you think that the Tech center is so bad?  Having known people who worked there, I have heard nothing but good things--state of the art, internet connections galore, great teleconferencing facilities, flexible floor plans, great meeting areas, and even a production studio.  Yet, the city gets it for next to nothing because Lucedia is ready to move on.  It would cost an arm & a leg to purchase the land and build something comparable downtown.  

As for Austin, as mentioned above, the city won't use the entire space.  And does Austin house all of the city employees in one location, anyway? (wow--wouldn't it be great if Tulsa did something more efficiently than Austin?).  Yea, I am sure that there will those who use it as an opportunity to grab a good seat for lobbying the city.  Like that will be something new.  That's why we have people like you, DoubleA, to watch our elected officials like hawks.  If we hesitated every time we worried about the possibility of corruption, well, we would have to stop acting altogether.

[ifsandbuts]

Not that actual facts seem to matter to some people (and I admit, I keep losing track of which ones I already counted on this list), but I'm getting something like 18 different addresses for City offices in Austin.

http://www.ci.austin.tx.us/help/orgcharttext.htm

[RecycleMichael]

Austin also spent over $50 million to build their city hall.

[deinstein]

What happens to the central library?

[pmcalk]

^I believe that land was already donated to the Central Library for relocation, but a bond vote that would have paid for the move failed.  My understanding is that the current library is too small and inadequate.  I would imagine that the library would be willing to sell, too.

[deinstein]

Do recall where the land donated is? Also, if they sell...does the money generated from the real estate add up to enough to build on the donated land?

[Double A]

BTW, isn't there a huge federal building between the Arena and this prime hotel development real estate? I seem to remember the city running into a few costly federal land acquisitions for the prime real estate where the BOK Center is being built. The path to hell is paved with good intentions and the devil is always in the details.

I am sure the building can be kept comfortable, but the real question is what is the energy consumption and ultimately the cost to provide that comfortability? The glare thing kind of reminds me of ants under a magnifying glass, which is somewhat ironic, considering that architecturally speaking, One Tech is the equivalent of a giant ant farm.

[Wilbur]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by Double A

You might want to show a little more respect to the folks paying your salary there A.J.

BTW, I support a new city hall that consolidates city services in one place at a new location. I think One Tech Center is absolutely the wrong place for it.

Once Again, why is it that a city like Austin(the 16th largest city in the U.S) can get by 115,300 sq/ft city hall, but 500,000 sq ft is not big enough for the city of Tulsa's(the 44th largest city in the U.S.) government?

But why do you think that the Tech center is so bad?  Having known people who worked there, I have heard nothing but good things--state of the art, internet connections galore, great teleconferencing facilities, flexible floor plans, great meeting areas, and even a production studio.  Yet, the city gets it for next to nothing because Lucedia is ready to move on.  It would cost an arm & a leg to purchase the land and build something comparable downtown.  

As for Austin, as mentioned above, the city won't use the entire space.  And does Austin house all of the city employees in one location, anyway? (wow--wouldn't it be great if Tulsa did something more efficiently than Austin?).  Yea, I am sure that there will those who use it as an opportunity to grab a good seat for lobbying the city.  Like that will be something new.  That's why we have people like you, DoubleA, to watch our elected officials like hawks.  If we hesitated every time we worried about the possibility of corruption, well, we would have to stop acting altogether.

But can we all agree that parking will suck?  At least the current City Hall is designed well so people who come to City Hall, can park at City Hall and conduct their business.  I don't see the One Tech Center as being too customer service friendly.... just being able to pull up, park, do your business and leave.  That goes for both employees and citizens.

[RecycleMichael]

Wilbur makes a good point that public access is one of the most important factors in what we need in a city hall. I think that the flash cube looking building will be better for public access.

I work across the street from the civic center complex and people are always wondering where city hall is. I see people in city hall who are looking for the courthouse and just try to find a parking space when there is a big daytime event at the convention center.

I have also had the parking attendents try to charge me for going to a city council meeting because there was a hockey game going on at the same time.

If you are not familiar with the complex, finding a city hall parking spot and entering the building is like going down an alley, then walking on a underground sidewalk that won't accomodate a wheelchair, then entering a hallway hoping to find an elevator.

The new proposed city hall stands out by itself, has an easy to negotiate parking garage across the street with a walkway, and will allow city hall to have an entrance that invites the citizenry rather than makes them go through a maze.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

quote:Originally posted by inteller

no and hell no. instead of taking prime office space off the market, they should be working to bring in a high tech company that would actually want to use that space. If they want to consolidate offices into one space there are plenty of buildings with lots of empty floors. Is city hall completely occupied? sounds like to me city gov is pretty fat. My company occupies almost as many floors and we employ 800 people downtown.

they think that hotel operators will be interested in that building.....I seriously doubt it. That building is an intergral part of that entire complex, you can't demo it thats for sure, and no one is going to want that old building.

The only thing they could do is sell the entire city plaza to some indian tribe to turn it into a casino complex.

I haven't figured out if you're just plain stupid or actually suffering from slight mental retardation.

- That "prime office space" is a white elephant because it can't be subdivided easily. Tenants have to take an entire floor and the HVAC can't even be divided floor by floor. It was designed for a large single entity. That building is dragging down occupancy and lease rates downtown, which hurts property values.

- City Hall is jam packed and a 40-year-old eyesore in need of $12 million of deferred maintenance. Not to mention the value of that land to a hotel developer. Opportunity knocking, folks. Get out from under the money pit.

- How is the city government fat when they've cut jobs the past 10 years? Wake up and do your research.

- Are you really that dense to think somebody would buy City Hall and convert it to a hotel? Um, buddy... they'd scrape it and build new.

- It's such a no-brainer to realize that a convention hotel is highest and best use of that land, even you can understand it.

You guys are really unbelieveable. You small government people b!tch about everything, but then the City comes up with a plan to:

- Consolidate offices to streamline operations, create efficiencies, and save taxpayer money.

- Invest taxpayer money in a newer, better asset rather than pouring money into outdated, antiquated facilities.

- Create the opportunity to realize new revenue in the short term from the sale of the City's old properties, which have a much higher and better use than government offices.

- Purchase an asset valued at $80 million for pennies on the dollar that allows room for future growth and/or revenue from subleasing.

- Open up development opportunities next to our most vital assets -- next to the BOK Center and Convention Center, prime riverfront land at the foot of the 21st Street Bridge, and the Hartford Building which is 2 blocks from the Blue Dome, 2 blocks from 3rd & Kenosha, 2 blocks from the Greenwood business district, and 4 blocks from the East End development area.

- Create the opportunity to realize increased revenue in the long term from new developments. Just from a convention hotel alone, the increased sales tax revenue would be significant.

Let's review: save taxpayer money in ongoing expenses, invest taxpayer money more wisely, buy an asset for an amount far less than the appraised value or the cost of new construction, help occupancy rates downtown and raise property values, open up some of the most prime land in Tulsa for private development, create new revenue streams for the City to fund operations.

Wow, what a horrible plan... only to mental midgets like you.

they cant scrape it you TARD.  it sits on top of the city plaza complex.  Furthermore, that location is HORRIBLE.  if heavenly hospitality would do the towerview location because of the bus station you think a hotel operator is going to locate NEXT TO THE COURTHOUSE in the middle of BUM PLAZA with KNOWN sex offenders and other criminals filtering in and out?  That place is damaged goods.

I would rather one of the rental car places occupy the entire OTC than the city.  it paints a HORRIBLE picture for businesses looking at Tulsa as they see the city in the newest highest tech building and then they have to choose from **** office space.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

BTW, isn't there a huge federal building between the Arena and this prime hotel development real estate? I seem to remember the city running into a few costly federal land acquisitions for the prime real estate where the BOK Center is being built. The path to hell is paved with good intentions and the devil is always in the details.

I am sure the building can be kept comfortable, but the real question is what is the energy consumption and ultimately the cost to provide that comfortability? The glare thing kind of reminds me of ants under a magnifying glass, which is somewhat ironic, considering that architecturally speaking, One Tech is the equivalent of a giant ant farm.

I'd be interested if you have evidence that the building is energy inefficient.  I have heard that the design of the building is actually quite energy efficient--there are double layers of glass, and the air in between helps to regulate the temperature of the building.  Inside is quite nice, and the windowed walls provide terrific views of the city.  As a side note, don't you like the metaphor of the city working under a magnifiying glass, with all the world to see?

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

quote:Originally posted by Double A

BTW, isn't there a huge federal building between the Arena and this prime hotel development real estate? I seem to remember the city running into a few costly federal land acquisitions for the prime real estate where the BOK Center is being built. The path to hell is paved with good intentions and the devil is always in the details.

I am sure the building can be kept comfortable, but the real question is what is the energy consumption and ultimately the cost to provide that comfortability? The glare thing kind of reminds me of ants under a magnifying glass, which is somewhat ironic, considering that architecturally speaking, One Tech is the equivalent of a giant ant farm.

I'd be interested if you have evidence that the building is energy inefficient.  I have heard that the design of the building is actually quite energy efficient--there are double layers of glass, and the air in between helps to regulate the temperature of the building.  Inside is quite nice, and the windowed walls provide terrific views of the city.  As a side note, don't you like the metaphor of the city working under a magnifiying glass, with all the world to see?

its the same concept (in theory) as thermal windows, minus the argon.

the magnifying glass concept is the only redeeming quality, since you could see the blood spattering the windows when the mayor eviscerates one of her minions.

the thing that disgusts me is they think moving into a high tech building will help them get ahead on the tech curve....hell they wouldn't know what to do with such a high tech building.


I submit an alternate proposal.  Move the downtown library in there.  for now spare me the hoo ha about UV light damaging the books.  You would give that library an instant parity with the Hardesty library in terms of technology.  If the place is doomed to fall into public space, at least let it be that.  The library could use the machine room downstairs to store emense volumes of digital data.  I believe the library would also rival the one in OKC at that point.  More people would use it to because you move it away from the bums and drudges that hang out at the plaza.

prospective businesses would look at that and think "wow this town really cares about education" and would be more likely to move here.  Instead of "wow the buracracy took over the best real estate in downtown".