Obama fundraiser at George Kaiser's home?

[tim huntzinger]

Edwards, Obama, Hill, ANY one of these guys would be better than any (R).  In fact, the Dem could be caught red-handed chain-smoking crack and I dare say would be a better choice for the Mercan people than an (R)!

Mixed feelings bout Edwards, I mean what is the hurry?  Even if she is telling him to go for it, I would want to spend that time with her.

[Conan71]

Personal commentary removed

[tim huntzinger]

Personal commentary removed

It is fascinating that Tulsa's richest man is supporting O.  What does he know that the country club conservatives do not?

[Double A]

What's painfully obvious to any objective observer, neocons put the con in fiscal conservatism.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

What's painfully obvious to any objective observer, neocons put the con in fiscal conservatism.

What's painfully obvious is there is no such thing as fiscal conservatism at the national level anymore Dem or GOP.

[Double A]

At least the Dems didn't wrap themselves in it(fiscal conservatism), and then turn around and wipe their a** with it.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

At least the Dems didn't wrap themselves in it(fiscal conservatism), and then turn around and wipe their a** with it.

Point well taken.[]

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

@ USRufnex: "I watched a Chicago PBS rebroadcast of Obama's keynote to the democratic convention... I remember both me and the friend I watched it with saying... this guy needs to run for president..."

Same thing that happened to Bill Clinton when he spoke at the '88 DNC.  Hardly anyone had heard of the Arkansas Gov. before that, and he became a political rock star afterwards.  Had charm and charisma out the wazoo.

@deinstein: "My age bracket (20-somethings and college kids) are bar none for Barack Obama, it's not even close. There is a facebook group for him with something like 320,000 members and all the others have like 5,000, etc. if that. Too bad we never show up to vote so what I just said...is pretty insignificant"

I was a freshman at OSU in the fall of 1984.  The buzz on campus before the '84 election was all about Ronald Reagan.  I think he had  appeal to a lot of us as he reminded us of the kindly grandfather we all had or wish we had.  Mondale, well he just seemed dull Geraldine Ferraro being on the ticket as his vice president created some interest, but not that much.  Not only that, people still remembered Mondale as being associated with Jimmy Carter and that was another knock on him.

I was nowhere as politically cognizant as I am now, but there was a charisma to him that appealed to a lot of people.

Hey, hey now... respect your elders... I lived the 80s as a full time student working part jobs at the mall that paid me $3.35 per hr...
--heavy breathing-- "Luke, I am your father..."

I was a freshman at OCU in the fall of 1983.  []

Yes, I remember "the buzz on campus before the '84 election"... it was Reagan/Bush versus "Fritz & Tits"... the year after the Tulsa Roughnecks won Soccer Bowl '83 in Vancouver [] ...back in the day when "101 Uses for A Dead Preppie" was required reading... and the college republicans all looked/talked like Tucker Carlson and worshipped at the altar of Maggie Thatcher-- (ask Si lon how much the Brits admire Thatcher's privatization "legacy")... Reagan touted a positive "it's morning in America" compared to memories of Mondale from the hostage crisis and Carter's infamous "malaise" speech...

Anyway, those were the days we were told of the "liberal media" (some things NEVER change)  yet the media I was reading (The Daily Oklahoman) was decidedly conservative (just ask James R Jones) and vilified all things vaguely perceived to be liberal (as in "pinko-commie liberal")... Mondale offered sobering tax increases to tame the federal deficit... not a very sexy idea in the land of Reaganomics... and the economy was booming after a 1982 recession...

http://cgi.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/debates/history/1984/

quote: In referring to a 1980 debate against Carter, Mondale said, "Mr. President, you said, 'There you go again.' ... You remember the last time you said that? ... You said it when President Carter said you were going to cut Medicare, and you said, 'Oh, no, there you go again, Mr. President.' And what did you do right after the election? You went out and tried to cut $20 billion out of Medicare. And so when you say, 'There you go again,' people will remember this, you know ... And people will remember that you signed the biggest tax increase in the history of the United States ... You've got a $260 billion deficit. You can't wish it away."
-----------------------------------------------
Reagan articulated the basic themes of his campaign: that his economic reforms were working and the budget would be balanced by 1989, that he would always do what was morally right for the people regardless of political interests, that the Democratic Party had left people like him during the 1950's, that farmers, minorities and the disadvantaged would do better under his administration, that abortion was murder, and that he would never cut Social Security. Reagan went after those who doubted him in the first debate by saying, "I will never stand for a reduction of the Social Security benefits to the people who are now getting them ... We are today subsidizing housing for more than 10 million people, and we're going to continue along that line. We have preserved the safety net for the people with true need in this country ... You might find my words in a Democratic platform of some years ago -- I know because I was a Democrat at that time. And I left the party eventually, because I could no longer follow the turn in Democratic leadership that took us down a path ... lacking trust in the American people."
------------------------------------------------
Mondale said, "In Lebanon, this president exercised American power, all right, but the management of it was such that our Marines were killed, we had to leave in humiliation, the Soviet Union became stronger, terrorists became emboldened. And it was because they did not think through how power should be exercised." The president "must command" and he "must lead," Mondale said.

The prevailing wisdom among young people went a little like this:
Unions are too strong/bureaucratic, deregulation of the phone company and airlines is a good idea, social security will not be around when we retire, the federal deficit is a huge problem...

Prevailing wisdom among the tragically hip Oklahoma young republicans was:  tax receipts are higher under Reagan policies than they would be under the dems, thus Reaganomics will literally grow the economy out of its current deficit, minimum wage hurts small businesses and we shouldn't even have one in a capitalist economy-- the economy will grow and higher wages will trickle down... social security should be privatized...  the dems are weak on defense... and if you happen to be a one-issue church going voter, we HATE abortion while the dems support abortion on demand...  

Mondale's performance in the '84 debates made my decision difficult... but I figured if my retail wages never rose (while tuition is going through the roof), and if big cuts in my Pell Grants continue...... at least I'd be "doing my share" to tame the federal deficit (yeah, right)...

So, I voted for Reagan... I was naive.  I was wrong.  And Mondale was right.

As for Bill Clinton--- after I moved to Chicago in 1990 seeking fame and fortune [}:)].... I talked to a guy I was singing with who was working as a volunteer for the Clinton campaign... since much of the info I had on Clinton was provided by the Daily Oklahoman (all their "expose's" in a nutshell... "slick willie"... "slick willie"... "Hillary wears the pants"... "slick willie"... etc, etc...) I asked him about a Clinton presidency...

His answer (circa 1991):  "Bill Clinton will be the best republican president we've ever had."

On Clinton's watch:
1.  Don't ask.  Don't tell.
2.  First Republican house and senate in over half a century.
3.  Welfare reform with a five year time limit.
4.  DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act)
5.  Turning the federal deficit into a surplus.

[Conan71]

USR- your posts are just too damn long to quote []

Reagan inherited an economy that was in disarray, foreign policy which had been largely neglected for four years, and a huge deficit.

I will always feel that Reagan was one of the more effective presidents we ever had and I believe history will bear that out as well.

I'll never apologize for my vote in '84.  Looking at the accomplishments of his second term, his spending increases were the lowest of any subsequent presidential term, except for Clinton's first term and I don't think anyone can impune his foreign policy which eventually led to the end of the cold war.  Aside from that he was a great unifier and worked relatively well with a democrat-controlled congress.

Reagan was a great statesman and leader.  

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

@ USRufnex: "I watched a Chicago PBS rebroadcast of Obama's keynote to the democratic convention... I remember both me and the friend I watched it with saying... this guy needs to run for president..."

Same thing that happened to Bill Clinton when he spoke at the '88 DNC.  Hardly anyone had heard of the Arkansas Gov. before that, and he became a political rock star afterwards.  Had charm and charisma out the wazoo.

@deinstein: "My age bracket (20-somethings and college kids) are bar none for Barack Obama, it's not even close. There is a facebook group for him with something like 320,000 members and all the others have like 5,000, etc. if that. Too bad we never show up to vote so what I just said...is pretty insignificant"

I was a freshman at OSU in the fall of 1984.  The buzz on campus before the '84 election was all about Ronald Reagan.  I think he had  appeal to a lot of us as he reminded us of the kindly grandfather we all had or wish we had.  Mondale, well he just seemed dull Geraldine Ferraro being on the ticket as his vice president created some interest, but not that much.  Not only that, people still remembered Mondale as being associated with Jimmy Carter and that was another knock on him.

I was nowhere as politically cognizant as I am now, but there was a charisma to him that appealed to a lot of people.

Hey, hey now... respect your elders... I lived the 80s as a full time student working part jobs at the mall that paid me $3.35 per hr...
--heavy breathing-- "Luke, I am your father..."

I was a freshman at OCU in the fall of 1983.  []

Yes, I remember "the buzz on campus before the '84 election"... it was Reagan/Bush versus "Fritz & Tits"... the year after the Tulsa Roughnecks won Soccer Bowl '83 in Vancouver [] ...back in the day when "101 Uses for A Dead Preppie" was required reading... and the college republicans all looked/talked like Tucker Carlson and worshipped at the altar of Maggie Thatcher-- (ask Si lon how much the Brits admire Thatcher's privatization "legacy")... Reagan touted a positive "it's morning in America" compared to memories of Mondale from the hostage crisis and Carter's infamous "malaise" speech...

Anyway, those were the days we were told of the "liberal media" (some things NEVER change)  yet the media I was reading (The Daily Oklahoman) was decidedly conservative (just ask James R Jones) and vilified all things vaguely perceived to be liberal (as in "pinko-commie liberal")... Mondale offered sobering tax increases to tame the federal deficit... not a very sexy idea in the land of Reaganomics... and the economy was booming after a 1982 recession...

http://cgi.cnn.com/ALLPOLITICS/1996/debates/history/1984/

quote: In referring to a 1980 debate against Carter, Mondale said, "Mr. President, you said, 'There you go again.' ... You remember the last time you said that? ... You said it when President Carter said you were going to cut Medicare, and you said, 'Oh, no, there you go again, Mr. President.' And what did you do right after the election? You went out and tried to cut $20 billion out of Medicare. And so when you say, 'There you go again,' people will remember this, you know ... And people will remember that you signed the biggest tax increase in the history of the United States ... You've got a $260 billion deficit. You can't wish it away."
-----------------------------------------------
Reagan articulated the basic themes of his campaign: that his economic reforms were working and the budget would be balanced by 1989, that he would always do what was morally right for the people regardless of political interests, that the Democratic Party had left people like him during the 1950's, that farmers, minorities and the disadvantaged would do better under his administration, that abortion was murder, and that he would never cut Social Security. Reagan went after those who doubted him in the first debate by saying, "I will never stand for a reduction of the Social Security benefits to the people who are now getting them ... We are today subsidizing housing for more than 10 million people, and we're going to continue along that line. We have preserved the safety net for the people with true need in this country ... You might find my words in a Democratic platform of some years ago -- I know because I was a Democrat at that time. And I left the party eventually, because I could no longer follow the turn in Democratic leadership that took us down a path ... lacking trust in the American people."
------------------------------------------------
Mondale said, "In Lebanon, this president exercised American power, all right, but the management of it was such that our Marines were killed, we had to leave in humiliation, the Soviet Union became stronger, terrorists became emboldened. And it was because they did not think through how power should be exercised." The president "must command" and he "must lead," Mondale said.

The prevailing wisdom among young people went a little like this:
Unions are too strong/bureaucratic, deregulation of the phone company and airlines is a good idea, social security will not be around when we retire, the federal deficit is a huge problem...

Prevailing wisdom among the tragically hip Oklahoma young republicans was:  tax receipts are higher under Reagan policies than they would be under the dems, thus Reaganomics will literally grow the economy out of its current deficit, minimum wage hurts small businesses and we shouldn't even have one in a capitalist economy-- the economy will grow and higher wages will trickle down... social security should be privatized...  the dems are weak on defense... and if you happen to be a one-issue church going voter, we HATE abortion while the dems support abortion on demand...  

Mondale's performance in the '84 debates made my decision difficult... but I figured if my retail wages never rose (while tuition is going through the roof), and if big cuts in my Pell Grants continue...... at least I'd be "doing my share" to tame the federal deficit (yeah, right)...

So, I voted for Reagan... I was naive.  I was wrong.  And Mondale was right.

As for Bill Clinton--- after I moved to Chicago in 1990 seeking fame and fortune [}:)].... I talked to a guy I was singing with who was working as a volunteer for the Clinton campaign... since much of the info I had on Clinton was provided by the Daily Oklahoman (all their "expose's" in a nutshell... "slick willie"... "slick willie"... "Hillary wears the pants"... "slick willie"... etc, etc...) I asked him about a Clinton presidency...

His answer (circa 1991):  "Bill Clinton will be the best republican president we've ever had."

On Clinton's watch:
1.  Don't ask.  Don't tell.
2.  First Republican house and senate in over half a century.
3.  Welfare reform with a five year time limit.
4.  DOMA (Defense of Marriage Act)
5.  Turning the federal deficit into a surplus.

You forgot NAFTA

[deinstein]

Rwanda genocide.

[YoungTulsan]

Tuesday night I saw Santa on a bike pulled over by the TPD.  (33rd and Peoria)  He had a sign that said "Vote Obama.  Pimp America."  (He also appeared to have other signs on his person) -  Well, I'm not exactly a "PC" person, but I thought that sign had some very racist undertones.

[USRufnex]

Lugar-Obama "The Dynamic Duo"

"The most dynamic duo in Washington today crosses party lines. Old-school realist Richard Lugar, the five-term Republican senator from Indiana, has embraced new-school realist and rising star Barack Obama, the junior Democratic senator from Illinois ... The two agree on much and seem to genuinely like each other. Rather unusual in hyper-partisan Washington, these days."

-Washington Monthly September 2006

[USRufnex]

quote:Originally posted by Double A


You forgot NAFTA

Hmmm... how 'bout that "giant sucking sound" of good jobs going to Mexico? (James R Jones was a supporter and ambassador to Mexico under Clinton)....

Hmmm... if all those jobs were going south of the border, why are so many of "those people" coming to the USA to work?

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by USRufnex

quote:Originally posted by Double A


You forgot NAFTA

Hmmm... how 'bout that "giant sucking sound" of good jobs going to Mexico? (James R Jones was a supporter and ambassador to Mexico under Clinton)....

Hmmm... if all those jobs were going south of the border, why are so many of "those people" coming to the USA to work?

We get the ones who couldn't cut the mustard at the maquiladora plants. [B)]

Seriously though, we pay higher wages for service-related jobs in the states than manufacturing jobs are paying in Mexico.  Studies show that the manufacturing segment in Mexico grew by over 1mm jobs from 1995 to 1999.  As of 2005, studies showed there have been about 1mm jobs lost in the U.S. as a direct impact from NAFTA.   Manufacturing growth for jobs in the U.S. has remained flat, but the service sector has grown.  Many Mexicans coming to America wind up working in service industries.  What manufacturing we have here pays far better than in Mexico, so in a way NAFTA helped pave the way for even more illegal immigration. (I can't wait to hear your flame for me on that assertion).[]

NAFTA has been a boon to the consumer, but not the American manufacturing workforce.  Many goods we use in the home are still about the same price or even lower than they were for a comparable item 20 years ago.

While material costs have gone up, labor costs have gone down via NAFTA and U.S.-based companies setting up shop in China and India.  It's been good for people who work in U.S. retail (which other than management is menial pay) but not for the manufacturing workforce.