Heavenly Hospitality, there baaaaack.

[Breadburner]

Yup.....Let em sweat it out again....

[Cubs]

quote:Who is Heavenly Hospitality? Another faith-based business looking for taxpayer money?


01-20-09...The End of An Error

HAHAHAHA wow ..... you have problems. Do you have any examples of "faith-based businesses" wanting tax payer money?

[carltonplace]

A hotel is a huge economic engine, employing everything from buss boys, dishwashers, environmental services, to maintenance engineers, event coordinators and executive managers. Considering the revenue this could generate I would not be opposed to some sort of public funding.

[RecycleMichael]

I am not opposed to helping build a hotel with tax dollars, but want something bigger. 200 rooms is less than half the size of the downtown Doubletree Hotel and not big enough to handle larger events that really spur convention business.

A 200 room hotel doesn't give us much more than we have now and will probably just be competing for the same customers as our other three downtown hotels. A four hundred room hotel or bigger serves as a headquarters hotel for conventions and allows attendees some choices in accomodations.

In order to attract lots of new convention business, we need lots more rooms downtown.

[blindnil]

The story did say these would be TAX INCENTIVES, not cash. There is a difference. Incntives are typically paid for with revenue that the city wouldn't collect without the project.

[sgrizzle]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

I am not opposed to helping build a hotel with tax dollars, but want something bigger. 200 rooms is less than half the size of the downtown Doubletree Hotel and not big enough to handle larger events that really spur convention business.

A 200 room hotel doesn't give us much more than we have now and will probably just be competing for the same customers as our other three downtown hotels. A four hundred room hotel or bigger serves as a headquarters hotel for conventions and allows attendees some choices in accomodations.

In order to attract lots of new convention business, we need lots more rooms downtown.

Let them build their 200 room hotel and then someone else can build a bigger one where city hall is now.

[pfox]

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by AVERAGE JOE

quote:Originally posted by inteller

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

quote:Originally posted by DM

150 a night in downtown? Once the arena and convention center is done, I dont think they will have any problem getting that. How much does the Adams Mark charge?

The Adams Mark is now the Crowne Plaza.  AAA Oklahoma's website lists a April weekend stay at the Crowne Plaza to be $116 for two adults.  The DoubleTree Downtown is listed at $139.  Ambassador Hotel: $109.  

Given Crowne Plaza's scheduled renovation efforts, $150 may be competitive in the next few years.

i've stayed in better for less.  none of the hotels mentioned could get away with what they charge if they were in other cities.

And I've stayed in worse for more. None of the hotels mentioned would charge as little as they do if they were in bigger cities.

well that statement is littered with BS.  these hotels would be relegated to the airport if they were plopped down in denver or houston.  they have no real competition here so they can get away with what they charge.  its like the Hilton in downtown Midland,TX.  That place is barely a step above a La Quinta, but they charge out the wazoo.

Inteller...try something.  Call the Hyatt Regency at DFW and get a quote. Then get a quote from the Hyatt Reunion center in Dallas (the one with the revolving restaurant.)

Tell me which is more.

I'll do it for you. The Hyatt at DFW (the old one, not the 5 star new one) is TWICE as much as the Reunion Center, for which I paid 125 to stay in less than a month ago.  Downtown Dallas.

Your logic is flawed. And the Westin/Crowne Royal is a nice hotel. Not the "W" or a Fairmount, but a nice hotel.

[pfox]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

...

But I cannot imagine a $400 a room hotel being successful in Tulsa, especially given the location.  The entire draw would be from tourists, for whom money is no object.  That's a pretty finite group already.  And it would have to be tourists who travel simply to indulge and spend ungodly amounts of money, not to see the great cities of the world.  Again, not trying to put Tulsa down, but we are not a $400 a night city.  People will spend that kind of money for cities like New York, Paris, etc..., not Tulsa.

pmc...here is an interesting quote from an article the NYT in 1982...

quote: IN THRIVING TULSA, FEW WORKERS' HANDS ARE IDLE

By WILLIAM K. STEVENS, SPECIAL TO THE NEW YORK TIMES

Published: February 11, 1982

John and Mary Bross, two refugees among the great stream arriving here from the economically stricken North, have never stayed in the $423-a-night executive suite in downtown Tulsa's understatedly elegant new Excelsior Hotel, where neither the nearzero freeze of Oklahoma winter nights nor the economic chill afflicting most of the country can penetrate.

They have never seen the white linens and red roses and crystal that grace the tables of the Excelsior's restaurant, which opened only a week ago; nor have they listened to the harpist's music there, or tasted the filet of sole or the oysters Rockefeller, or overheard middle-aged oilmen and their wives at nearby tables talking of face lifts and ski trips, of breakfast rides in the Rockies and salmon fishing in Alaska.

But the Brosses, the Excelsior and its guests are all part of an economic success story that flies in the face of the current recession. At a time when the national unemployment rate is approaching double digits for the first time since the Depression, Tulsa's rate is a microscopic 3.6 percent. That makes it the most fully employed city in the country, according to the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

It has achieved that distinction because it has a robust economy partly based on computers, metal fabricating and aerospace activities, but mostly animated by oil and gas production.

The opening of a place like the Excelsior at a time like this would be unthinkable in much of the nation. Here, it is part of a $600-million-a-year building boom that just keeps on building.

And for the 28-year-old Brosses, the atmosphere inside the old blue school bus they have converted into a temporary home at a campground just east of town is just as warm as the atmosphere at the Excelsior.  

[cannon_fodder]

I've stayed in $200 a night rooms in frikken MEMPHIS that had bathroom doors that didnt even shut.

I stayed in a $350 a room in Kansas City last weekend that was no bigger than your average room at a Holiday Inn.

Its all about where you are and what's going on.  $150 a night is getting to be pretty standard when a Holiday Inn costs $70 a night easy.  

BUTTTTTTT.... if the city is going to pay for 25% of the cost, does that mean the city gets a 25% stake in the operation?  If not, why subsidize the competition of long standing Tulsa businesses that are investing of their own accord in downtown?  

The Double Tree and Crowne Plaza are spending millions of their own dollars betting on downtown, someone NEW comes along and wants to be subsidized?  And where does the funding for such a project come from... excess revenue from the hotel/motel tax.  So these hotels are passing along tax money that will be given to their direct competition.  Nice.  How pissed would you be if the city decided to pay 25% of the cost of building competition for your business?

I'm not so sure on that one.

[Breadburner]

Let's quit letting the tail wag the dog....

[Wrinkle]

quote: ...here is an interesting quote from an article the NYT in 1982...

The next day, the bottom fell out, and not another major project was built in Tulsa for over 10 years. [true story]

[pmcalk]

I can't imagine paying much over $200 for a hotel, unless I was in New York.  $350 for Kansas City seems ridiculous--we booked a room at the Intercontinental for a little over $200.  My parents stayed in the Peabody in Memphis for around the same.  Even in Dallas, apart from the Mansion, you can get a downtown room for around $250 (like the Adolphus).  I have even stayed at decent hotels in DC and New York for under 300.  Again, these are all weekend rates--weekday are probably higher.  I think that 150 to 200 during the week, or special events, is perfectly reasonable.  And I imagine that some rooms some of the time could pull in $400.  I just don't imagine an entire hotel being able to pull that in on a regular basis here in Tulsa.  Apart from the Mansion in Dallas, does anyone know of any hotels in the area that routinely charge $400 a night?  I haven't found any.

Pfox--I have read that article in the past, and had thought the $429 figure was a mistake.  We had family that stayed in that hotel back in the 80s.  I don't know exactly what they paid, but I am positive they would have never spent that kind of money (doubt if they could have afforded it).  Maybe for the executive suite, but I expect that the average room was much, much less.

Back more on topic, I think the city is right to wait until the decision whether to move city hall.

[sgrizzle]

I paid about $300 in boston in the smallest hotel room I've ever been in. I just checked and that hotel charges $280-$500 a night. I was travelling with someone who was paying about $400 in another hotel in boston.

Seems like most rooms in dallas are $100-$200.

[rwarn17588]

Man ... I must be a cheapskate.

The last time I remember paying $100 for a hotel room was La Posada in Winslow, Ariz., which is fabulous and worth every penny, IMO.

Even in Chicago, L.A. and St. Louis, I've been able to find sub-$100 hotel rooms fairly easily. Hint: Don't look close to the interstates.

[cannon_fodder]

rwarn:  I understand that you CAN find cheaper rooms, but we are talking about how much they can fleece from vistors (frankly).  

In Memphis, I stayed near Beale street for the Liberty Bowl and paid for it.

In KC I stayed at the Casino and paid for it.

Clearly I could have found cheaper rooms, but for what I wanted out of that weekend it was perfect.  Likewise, I think they could find plenty of people at $150 a night for many of the events that are in Tulsa (and/or are promised for Tulsa).