DOW 12,800

[Conan71]

Happens to me too. []

Two more things, one of which I thought of as I mentioned the "next" internet in my last post.

"Green Technologies" could be the next one.  
However, the huge market gains in the .bomb era happened just as much because on-line trading had really just come about, there were lots of young techies making good bank and playing the market- trying to become billionaires by the time they were 30.  Plenty of those people learned their lesson or wound up penniless.

It will be just as hard to separate the hucksters in GT from the real deals as it was with the hot IPO's of the '90's.  But we will be able to thank Algore again for inventing Global Warming. []

Second thought was from CF's post- the stock market for speculators is a lot safer form of gambling than Vegas.  Nothing more, nothing less.  People who are pros figure out how to make money off it when it goes up and when it goes down.  I've had short-selling explained to me countless times.  Either I don't have the guts to do it or I'm just too obtuse to figure it out.

[YoungTulsan]

Short selling is some weird stuff, and even a moral conundrum for some.  

My opinion of investing overall:

This always has been and will be (barring a devestating total implosion of our economy due to debt or world war) a growth based economy.  We expand and build things and finance them based upon the ever exponentially increasing growth of our economy.

Stock market investing in general has historically yeilded a what, 8-12% yearly gain?  I forget the exact number, but in that range.

That is overall, for everyone.  Most people just have money mindlessly put in for retirement plans.  Some people are just plain foolish.

All you need is the slightest bit of education and knowledge, and you are ahead of the curve.  So for an educated investor, making gains of 20% a year or more is pretty easily done.

I only wish I had money to invest

[MichaelC]

I don't believe I could be a short.  I understand the concept, I don't have the guts.

[YoungTulsan]

I might actually find it fun to short companies I dont neccesarily approve of.

Like big pharma corps.  I'd love to see their demise, why not make some bucks along the way?

[iplaw]

Give it up.  Only people tied to the government who know of impending disasters can short stocks...[8D]

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by dinkleman23

Good news? Let's see the DJI was last at these levels in 2000 so if someone was invested in the DJI for these past seven years they have a negative real return. Dividends will mitigate slightly but not much.

You need to learn about investing ... your no-knowledge shows.

Having an off day at Edward/Jones......

[cannon_fodder]

lol @ teddy jack.  You know we pay a phone tax was  initiated as a telegraph and wire tax to pay for the Spanish-American war?  Those bastards.  So I would rest assured that we wont ever really pay this way off either.
--

Shorting a stock is nearly impossible to make money off of as a private investor.  You can do it, as IP pointed out, as a corrupt official - which explains why the Senate (who is exempt from insider trading laws) has nearly double the average return of the average American (shenanigans!).   It also works for corporate officials (say your company sold tainted pet food and you want out, and delayed the announcement that the pet food was tainted until after you sold).

The best way to make money if you think a stock is going to crash is to sell options.  But you have to be able to cover the margin of at least a 20% rise.  Ouch.  I usually just avoid it and buy into a competitor.  The best way to make money, is not to lose it.
---

More bad news, DOW 12,900. More importantly my portfolio is up 10% for the year (apprx. 31% APR).  Man, that's just horrible, horrible news.  In fact, today its so bad, every stock I hold in the online account I actually pay attention to is up:

BJS   29.70    +0.10    (0.34%)
MMM   78.02    +0.44    (0.57%)
PPR   7.58    +0.00    (0.02%)
SYNM   3.40    +0.01    (0.29%)
TGB   3.13    +0.09    (2.96%)
WMT   48.97    +0.63    (1.30%)
YUM   61.04    +0.36    (0.59%)
DE      112.61   +1.91   (1.73%)
Ebay    33.48    +0.29   (0.87%)
BA      93.64    +0.65   (0.70%)
BRK.B 3,637.00     +4.20   (0.12%)


Though I confess I think its trading high and will probably get out of a few and buy into some overseas mutuals.

[Conan71]

Dow at 12,900.  CF, do you ever get tired of being the bearer of bad news?  This just sucks!

[MichaelC]

It's not bad news, it's just not really news at all.  Thankfully, no one chose to post a new thread every freakin time DJI hit a new high.

I don't mind talking specific stocks, I do quite a lot of that.  But DJIA?  Who cares?  I own stock in a company that's up 15% TODAY, repeating TODAY, expecting no less than 60% on the year (with something more in the neighborhood of "ungodly" gains possible).  DJIA isn't going to do that!  Screw DJIA.

[cannon_fodder]

Michael, I posted this thread because the news that the economy overall is doing well has been ignored and downplayed as much as possible.  Fully acknowledging that the DOW is not an indicator for the entire economy, it is one that people recognize and understand (people complain when unemployment is 'up to 4.5%' even though that's not really bad).  

Nor should the DJIA be the benchmark for investments.  They are inherently low risk large cap stocks.  S&P makes a much better benchmark... but again, for some reason everyone loves the DOW.  

[rwarn17588]

I don't do specific stocks. That's because you would have what's called specific-stock risk.

If you don't know what that is, ask a former Enron employee.

Index funds (S&P 500, Russell 2000, etc.) are best for investing in the market. Their costs are very low, they follow the market, and you have a diverse portfolio with minimal fuss.

[MichaelC]

I agree.  I have a list of 4 ETF's I'm looking to expand into.  VTI IYR IYM EFA, mostly for diversification and stability.  

But right now, I think part of my mindset is I'm still a little on the young-side, I'm only 34, if I lose I lose, I still have time to build it back.   In the riskier stocks, I look for very specific items.  So far, it's going well.  I will be moving into more stability soon.

[RecycleMichael]

Anyone want to bet me on the Dow?

I will bet lunch the DOW goes down on Monday.

[RecycleMichael]

Chickens...No one would take my bet...

Dow lost 43 points on Monday.