The surge is working!

[swake]

The majority of Iraqi people support attacks on American troops (54% USA Today last month) and the vast majority (78% USA Today last month) want the US out NOW.

And while we are not the reason for radical Islam, they use us well as villainous puppets and for our actions to dovetail into their goals is stupidity.

Al Qaeda and the Taliban are the constructs of our friends the Saudis and the Pakistani Secret Service respectively. And the infrastructure that led to the creation of both still exists, even flourishes and we have done nearly nothing to deal with either the Saudis or Pakistan.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

quote:So I guess the militant radicals aren't Iraqi people? I didn't know they had renounced their citizenship.

Keep stepping in it, iplaw. [}:)]

You can't possibly be this dense, well, yes you can, and you are.

Who are the foregin fighters in Iraq?

More foreign fighters entering Iraq.

US nabs foreign fighters in Iraq

Syria controlling the flow of foreign fighters into Iraq.

Insurgents, by all accounts, comprise 50,000 fighters both Sunni and Shia.  The population of Baghdad is roughly 5.5 million people, which translates to about .009% of the population.

Keep telling yourself the Iraqi people are fighting us...

So, no American troops have died at the hand of Sadr and his followers? None at the hands of the Sunni insurgents?

I never said that there are not foreign influences and fighters in Iraq. But it's a long way from showing that foreign fighters exist to you saying that Americans aren't being killed by Iraqis. A great deal of the foreign fighters are Iranian or Iranian trained, which really goes back to my point about Iran, now doesn't it.

[iplaw]

quote:The majority of Iraqi people support attacks on American troops (54% USA Today last month) and the vast majority (78% USA Today last month) want the US out NOW.

Most people in Iraq regurgitate the nonsense they hear from fat little potentates like Sadr, so I don't put much stock in those polls.

quote:
And while we are not the reason for radical Islam, they use us well as villainous puppets and for our actions to dovetail into their goals is stupidity.

And my point about the Barbary wars et al, was that they will find a way to be pissed off at us.  They are not interested in a truce or common peace.

The most important line from that poll was this:

"Last week, Iraqi President Jalal Talibani told the United Nations that coalition forces should remain in Iraq until Iraqi security forces are "capable of putting an end to terrorism and maintaining stability and security."

He understands the pressure and hardship the people are going through, but also understands the consequence if we leave.

quote:
Al Qaeda and the Taliban are the constructs of our friends the Saudis and the Pakistani Secret Service respectively. And the infrastructure that led to the creation of both still exists, even flourishes and we have done nearly nothing to deal with either the Saudis or Pakistan.

I can't believe I agree with you about something.  I think our confrontation of Pakistan especially, is long over due.

The whole area, save Dubai and Israel is a rat's nest.

[iplaw]

quote:
So, no American troops have died at the hand of Sadr and his followers? None at the hands of the Sunni insurgents?

No one said that either.  What I take exception to is the idea that the populous of Iraq is rising up against the US.  It's a handful of nutjobs.  If the "Iraqi people" were killing US servicemen, there would be far more dead than we see, just in terms of sheer numbers.

quote:
A great deal of the foreign fighters are Iranian or Iranian trained, which really goes back to my point about Iran, now doesn't it.

Not really, but you've made so many contradictory statements about Iran today I can't remember.

[Breadburner]

This is where it all begins....You stop these idiots before they really get started...Like we do here in the states.....It's going to be a long process but eventually you depend on local govenments to stop them early on.....I figure at least another 10 years in Iraq....Afghanastan...and some time in Iran....


http://blog.wired.com/27bstroke6/2007/04/antigovernment_.html

Can you imagine what groups like this could do in the U.S. if they were left un-checked.....Well your seeing it in the Middle-East....

[jdb]

Suffered through this thread only to wind up where I started, that anyone still supporting the Bush adm. is in need of a brain-washing.

Waste of time.
Two Thumbs down.

jdb

[iplaw]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

Suffered through this thread only to wind up where I started, that anyone still supporting the Bush adm. is in need of a brain-washing.

Waste of time.
Two Thumbs down.

jdb

Typical.  Nothing to offer, just drive-by-bomb throwing with no substance.  It's amazing that people like you actually evolved opposable thumbs.

Thanks for crapping the thread.  Good day.

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

Suffered through this thread only to wind up where I started, that anyone still supporting the Bush adm. is in need of a brain-washing.

Waste of time.
Two Thumbs down.

jdb

To say that anyone supporting the Bush admin. is in need of a brain-washing would tend to indicate that those not in support have themselves already been the recipients of a good brain-washing..

Freudian slip?

[jdb]

Talk about "typical"?

Any opinon that doesn't jive with yours being treated to a snide crack, at best.
It's an opinon maybe it sucks but in my opinon not as much as yours.

Well, guess I lied. I did walk away with one other thing....a sense of dissapppointment that there wasn't any new hot air in here that hasn't been talked to death in print or TV, for ages now.

No doubt I could use a scrub, but there is no Victory, only saving face.

Last crack I heard was..."the dems are slow bleeding the troops". Not even good spin.

Looks like things have to get a hellva lot worse before we as a Nation finally wake up.

Sucks too, jdb

[TulsaFan-inTexas]

I don't think anyone in here is going to change anyone's opinion, at all. I'm a conservative, and I disagree with much about how this war has been prosecuted (don't think pulling out is the answer though).

My gripes mostly have to do with not letting the troops actually do their job - and that falls flat on the commander in chief for being to big of a wimp to stand up to his detractors. People have died and are dying as a result.

Do you know how many steps a soldier or marine has to go through these days before even being able to make the decision on firing a weapon?

Way too many.. It's called "rules of engagement" and all of that crap falls directly on the shoulders of the commander in chief. I don't agree with Bush on tons of issues so please don't paint me as a kool-aid drinking Republican.

Many of the more liberal leaning people on this forum are just as guilty of that as are conservatives.

[Rico]

..........And then there is this little gem of wisdom....
Originally spoken by Madame Rice..

quote:

"Look, not everything went right," Rice said. "This is a very difficult circumstance. There were some things that went right and some things that went wrong. And you know what? We will have a chance to look at that in history. And I will have a chance to reflect on that when I have a chance to write my book."

Well, Madame Secretary, you may one day be able to sit and reflect upon what went right and what went wrong.... But unfortunately the men and women of our Military that died yesterday, today, and will die tomorrow will not have that luxury....

as for us here in Tulsa we are stuck listening to a deranged lawyer tell us that throwing rocks at an avalanche will somehow make us all safer. but then you have George....

I think anyone with an IQ over 75 knows that we did the wrong thing at the start of this war.... We are fighting them on their terms... a friendlier more warm and fuzzy kind of warfare...
Nothing more fun than trying to whip a Gorilla with one arm tied behind you....

One thing that I most certainly agree with you on, Madame Secretary, history will put all things and all people in perspective as it has done with other wars.

[iplaw]

quote:
Any opinon that doesn't jive with yours being treated to a snide crack, at best.  It's an opinon maybe it sucks but in my opinon not as much as yours.

A snide crack for snide comment, I suppose.  Had you actually offered a thought or comment rather than sniped, I wouldn't have returned the favor by sniping you back.

[iplaw]

quote:
Well, Madame Secretary, you may one day be able to sit and reflect upon what went right and what went wrong.... But unfortunately the men and women of our Military that died yesterday, today, and will die tomorrow will not have that luxury....

As they always do in war...

quote:
as for us here in Tulsa we are stuck listening to a deranged lawyer tell us that throwing rocks at an avalanche will somehow make us all safer. but then you have George....

As they say, if you don't like it, click another thread.  No one forces you to read my posts.

quote:
I think anyone with an IQ over 75 knows that we did the wrong thing at the start of this war.... We are fighting them on their terms... a friendlier more warm and fuzzy kind of warfare...

Only those with one lower than that can fail to see the significance of leaving.

[Conan71]

" think anyone with an IQ over 75 knows that we did the wrong thing at the start of this war.... We are fighting them on their terms... a friendlier more warm and fuzzy kind of warfare...
Nothing more fun than trying to whip a Gorilla with one arm tied behind you...."

How is taking the fight to their doorstep fighting it on their terms?  Their terms were sneaking in the backdoor of our country and hi-jacking our aircraft to use as weapons.

There is not near as much honor to these nut-jobs in killing U.S. service men and women who know it could be a reality of their job.  They get their glory in killing innocent civilians, not military personnel.

The people who are fighting this war to keep the rest of the world safe volunteered to do this and know they could pay a high price to do it.  No one held a gun to their head and told them to join the military.

Democrats need to quit playing games and trying to tie one arm behind the backs of our troops.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

" think anyone with an IQ over 75 knows that we did the wrong thing at the start of this war.... We are fighting them on their terms... a friendlier more warm and fuzzy kind of warfare...
Nothing more fun than trying to whip a Gorilla with one arm tied behind you...."

How is taking the fight to their doorstep fighting it on their terms?  Their terms were sneaking in the backdoor of our country and hi-jacking our aircraft to use as weapons.

How many Iraqis participated again and what did Saddam do to help?

None and nothing.

By what you are saying we should be at war in Saudi Arabia and Pakistan, not Iraq.

Morons.