Abandonded Buildings & Homes

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok

There is no reason for it to be parking. Lots of people want to buy the place. The guy who owns it won't sell. Its more than a shame its in its present state, its a crime.

I totally agree, it is a crime.  Do you know who currently owns the Tulsa Club building and why they won't sell?  Is is just greed and ignorance, while the building slowly deteriorates beyond hope?

Tulsa urban legend has it that the original exterior windows designed by Goff, which were a casement type that opened outward, were prone to snap off and fly away in high winds.  I think this is mostly just myth, although it may have happened once or twice.  Retrofitting for air-conditioning must have solved that, since the windows did not need to be opened as much after AC was installed.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok

I hope so, I've looked at it long and hard. You can see right down on it from the Philtower and I think its slowly getting ruined. The building is definately not secured properly.

Can you see any remnants of the original rooftop terrace dining area, or is this just long gone and only preserved in memory?

[jdb]

Restrictions on demolition would be the first best foot forward. Protect what is left. But we've seen how many fans any moritorium would have.

Incentives to rehab. or properly mothball might be next.
Facade grants, tax defer., low interest loans.
The supression rebate was a nice touch but with one little mistake there goes that.

Punitive assessments last.
A Land Bank here could become an overnight horror. Never liked that subject, personally.

Earlier I suggested pooling funds, but that also included the option of putting a roof on the place. Lien or not, if the place is important and the owner doesn't want to, or can't afford to roof it, then it falls on the  "visionaries" (hate that word) to cough up some stop-gap dough.

I never looked at this place more then in passing. Pressed into that akward corner the joint always gave me the shivers.[]

[RecycleMichael]

I gave a speech on Saturday at the GoGreen green building conference where I discussed  new barriers to demolition.

I proposed a demolition permit deposit that would be refunded based on what percentage of the material was reclaimed or recycled into new products.

The powerpoint presentation is on my website...
http://metrecycle.com/

It doesn't fully explain it by powerpoint alone, but I look forwarrd to bringing this topic up at upcoming comprehensive planning meetings.

[pmcalk]

I can't seem to find it on your website-is it under presentations?

I think its a great idea.  Tearing down buildings should reflect true costs--cost to the city, to the environment, to our children, etc....  

I understand that Councilors Turner and Martinson is looking into new means to raise city revenue. Have you considered giving a presentation to their group?

[NellieBly]

It's at the bottom of the index page. Click on Go Green Conference.

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

quote:Originally posted by si_uk_lon_ok

I hope so, I've looked at it long and hard. You can see right down on it from the Philtower and I think its slowly getting ruined. The building is definately not secured properly.

Can you see any remnants of the original rooftop terrace dining area, or is this just long gone and only preserved in memory?

I don't think I saw anything left of it, although I wasn't looking for it. I hope the building can be saved.

[si_uk_lon_ok]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

I can't seem to find it on your website-is it under presentations?

I think its a great idea.  Tearing down buildings should reflect true costs--cost to the city, to the environment, to our children, etc....  

I understand that Councilors Turner and Martinson is looking into new means to raise city revenue. Have you considered giving a presentation to their group?

I think that idea is great. There are often some amazing building materials in old buildings. I think when the court house was demolished in Pryor or Chelsea (can't remember which one) they sold off loads of marble and materials.

I think if Councilors Turner and Martinson are interested in raising revenue the city should consider a parking tax. Taxing each parking space in the city with discounts for multi storys. That would raise revenue, encourage sustainable transport, stop demolitions and might bring some land onto the market.

[perspicuity85]

quote:Originally posted by pmcalk

Suggestions from other cities of how to prevent abandoned buildings:

Albany--each building that has sat vacant for a certain period of time must register with the fire department as a vacant building.  With that registration the owner is required to submit a plan for maintenance of the building during its vacancy, as well as pay a fee (based on the theory that it is a higher risk of fire).  The process itself discourages owners from allowing buildings to sit empty.

Boston--tax laws rewritten that gives penalties to owners that hold on indefinitely to abandoned buildings.

Burlington--similar to Albany.  Upon vacancy of 90 days, the owner must allow inspectors in to determine the continued structural integrity.  Plans of maintenance must also include a timeline in which the owner will return the property to productive use.

Dallas--has the Urban Land Bank Program which aggressively seeks out tax-delinquent properties for repossession.

Willimington--also has an abandoned building registration, with fees that increase each year of vacancy, regardless of multi-ownership.  Waivers to the fee are allowed on a one time basis when rehabilitation is attempted.

Many other cities simply use inspections, fines, etc.... to make it difficult to retain abandoned buildings. The problem in Tulsa is that there is no incentive to not leave a building sitting empty.

I think property tax on buildings with historic status should be proportional to the upkeep/preservation of the building.  Owners of historic buildings should be able to write a portion of renovation costs off their property taxes.  If historic building owners allow the building to deteriorate to a certain level, they should see a fine imposed on their property tax.  Deterioration should be defined as any reasonably forseeable or purposeful act done to decrease the value of the structure.  Tearing the structure down would obviously decrease the value of the structure by destroying it!  A regulation like this could be imposed as a type of form-based code.

[OurTulsa]

If you go up into the adjacent parking structure you can peer into the Tulsa Club.  The bones still seem fine however there is water damage.  I'm saddened to see this building deteriorating.  I cannot imagine that someone would tear that building down for a parking lot although I thought the same about the Skelly.  

I certainly don't forsee a tax on parking spaces.  Can you imagine Jim Norton and the cartels response to that.  As there is no alternative to parking in downtown right now a tax seems impractical....ehhh maybe you could do it as some sort of special tax district and the tax goes to improving the walking environment downtown and the construction of parking garages....can't make exceptions for schools, governments, or religious institutions as they are some of our biggest contributors...the alliance against such an idea would be great.

Putting a tax on parking in our City would be a racket as WE require an excessive amount of surface parking with any new development as part of our zoning code.

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by perspicuity85

[I think property tax on buildings with historic status should be proportional to the upkeep/preservation of the building.  Owners of historic buildings should be able to write a portion of renovation costs off their property taxes.  If historic building owners allow the building to deteriorate to a certain level, they should see a fine imposed on their property tax.  Deterioration should be defined as any reasonably forseeable or purposeful act done to decrease the value of the structure.  Tearing the structure down would obviously decrease the value of the structure by destroying it!  A regulation like this could be imposed as a type of form-based code.

Tax credits already are available at both the state and federal level for persons rehabilitating historic structures.  The rehabilitation must meet certain standards, but the take credits are substantial.

[mr.jaynes]

Way I see it, a historic building is a historic building, and if it's part of our cultural heritage, it should be made easier to get listed on the National register of Historic Places. Once it's listed, like an endangered species, it should be a high felony to demolish a historic structure.

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

Way I see it, a historic building is a historic building, and if it's part of our cultural heritage, it should be made easier to get listed on the National register of Historic Places. Once it's listed, like an endangered species, it should be a high felony to demolish a historic structure.

Many of us would agree, but in reality, the National Register of Historic Places is simply an honorary designation, and makes no restrictions on a building's upkeep or demolition.  It simply exists to encourage maintenance and historic preservation.  Upkeep and demolition are strictly local issues, covered by municipal historic preservation zoning, which can be difficult to obtain since it is so restrictive.

[mr.jaynes]

That's unfortunate. See, I was born in New Orleans, returned there to live for a while before moving to the Biloxi area, and I can say that it is a city that's all about history. Before Katrina, there was an eclectic collection of architectural styles and influences and eras all integrated together, and a strong preservation effort at work too. Even after Katrina, there's a movement to preserve and restore the historic architecture. Tulsa needs a movement like this.

[Fiend]

I know I am replying to an old post here, but I am an avid urban explorer in the Tulsa area. I explore any and all abandoned buildings (underground tunnel systems under the city too), taking pictures and disturbing as little as possible. I am obsessed with Tulsa's past and a good way to unlock it is to see inside old buildings. If anyone is interested more into urban exploration, check out www.abandonedok.com . Also I am looking for people to explore with for numerous reasons.