17 Y/O Stoned to Death in Iraq

[cannon_fodder]

WARNING, LINK CONTAINS BLURY PICTURES. I dont consider them graphic, but felt I should at least say something.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/pages/live/articles/news/worldnews.html?in_article_id=452288&in_page_id=1811

She is a member of a small religion called Yezidi, which is apparently NOT Islam but adheres to many Islamic traditions and belief's.  She was stoned to death for dating a Sunni boy.  I'm not sure what discussion I wanted to spur with this, but man, that's screw up.

You can find the video if you want to, but I am trying not to watch it.

[tulsacyclist]

Yeah, that's screwed up for sure. Such a loving bunch over there.

[cannon_fodder]

K, I'm an idiot.  Watched the video.

- While stoning her to death she tried to get up several times and is bludgeoned back to the ground.

- I saw at LEAST 5 people with cell phones out taking pictures and a couple with cameras.

- While stoning her to death, her skirt gets flipped up.  2 people take the time to put her skirt back down before continuing to murder her.

And here I though Kurdistan was the "civilized" part of the region. No wonder Turkey is violently secular.

[jdb]

"A large crowd watched as...(men in her family and hardline religious leaders) hurled stones at her for half an hour...".

That I wasn't there, and have no other information to go on, I can't judge the verdict or how it was arrived at: but the act itself - being swift and barbaric - is disturbing.

That for 30 minutes a crowd stood by and watched is disturbing.
That her own family and clergy carried out the verdict is disturbing.

A different type of civility.

We have appeals. A death row inmate might sooner die from old age. This is a huge financial burden and the subject of heated debate about how to "fix" the issue.
We have a special place for putting the condemend to death where pedestrians with cell phone cameras are not happening by.
And while our clergy my bore some people to death, it's only for an hour. Our Church and State seperation - should parsonages be taxed? -is...ah, I am getting carried away here.

This was a violation of honor in a different culture, with it's own sense of conduct, right? Well, if the Yezidi code is so strick that a "sleep over" carries a death sentence, then that's the rules: one should live by them or get the hell out.

I condemn the killing as brutal and unwarrented and feel for the boyfriend in hiding. I suppose I feel for the family too as it must be horrible to have to kill your own children because of traditions.

Then again, if the daughter was a "handfull" (which I suspect was the case) they must of had some idea.

How about you folks here that said, "tough beans" to the WM shoplifter that wound up dead.

jdb

[iplaw]

quote:How about you folks here that said, "tough beans" to the WM shoplifter that wound up dead.

That question doesn't deserve to be dignified with a response.

Then don't

[Breadburner]

How about you folks here that said, "tough beans" to the WM shoplifter that wound up dead.


Horrible analogy..

[jdb]

Bread - I am surprised.

"No tears shed here for the thief....."

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5816&SearchTerms=walmart,shoplifting


The sentence you highlighted reads as analogy but it's intent was a contrast.*

Some people here said, "So what?" he was a thief.
There some people say, "so what?" she was a whore.

Intersted in why one is disturbing and the other not.

jdb

*I can clean it later when I have a few more synaps firing.

[iplaw]

Off topic removed

[Breadburner]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

Bread - I am surprised.

"No tears shed here for the thief....."

http://www.tulsanow.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=5816&SearchTerms=walmart,shoplifting


The sentence you highlighted reads as analogy but it's intent was a contrast.*

Some people here said, "So what?" he was a thief.
There some people say, "so what?" she was a whore.

Intersted in why one is disturbing and the other not.

jdb

*I can clean it later when I have a few more synaps firing.

Does it really need explaing......

[shadows]

deleted

[shadows]

We are winning this policing action by replacing the exile government from England back in power, replacing the dictator that had the power of life and death over the citizens.

They have a constitution and a system of justice we established for them.   We have thousands of casuals enforcing the traditions in their culture we cannot understand.

Did Jesus not address this same situation almost two thousand years ago?

What if it was a American Soldier she stayed all night with?

Would you feel we had soiled hands?

[mr.jaynes]

quote:Originally posted by shadows

We are winning this policing action by replacing the exile government from England back in power, replacing the dictator that had the power of life and death over the citizens.

We haven't won a thing there. Quite honestly, I think we're there simply because the current "President" had his pride wounded in Afghanistan and so he apparently wants to save face. Only question is, how will we withdraw? Will we withdraw with some modicum of dignity, or will we withdraw with our collective tail between our legs?

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by mr.jaynes

quote:Originally posted by shadows

We are winning this policing action by replacing the exile government from England back in power, replacing the dictator that had the power of life and death over the citizens.

We haven't won a thing there. Quite honestly, I think we're there simply because the current "President" had his pride wounded in Afghanistan and so he apparently wants to save face. Only question is, how will we withdraw? Will we withdraw with some modicum of dignity, or will we withdraw with our collective tail between our legs?

I really fail to see how he had his pride wounded in Afghanistan.  The Taliban was dismembered in short order and terrorist training camps were taken out.  

Whoops, we didn't get OBL.  No one can even say for certain if he is still alive or not.  Whether you find one man in a vast wasteland of desert and mountains isn't the sole determining factor of success or failure.  Hunting terrorists is like hunting prairie dogs.

[cannon_fodder]

quote:jdb said
How about you folks here that said, "tough beans" to the WM shoplifter that wound up dead.

I say apples and oranges:

1) The shoplifter got in his bind because he decided to take something that was not his.  That is an example of greed.

The girl got in trouble because she wished to marry a boy that was of a different religion.  That is an example of love.

2) The forces set out to subdue the shoplifter and hold him until police arrived.  The intent was not to kill him.  The death was not foreseeable and incidental to the purpose.

The crowd set out to throw rocks at the girl until she was killed.  The intent was to kill her.  The death was a calculated action designed to end her life in the most painful and publicly humiliating way possible.

3) He was a grown man.

She was a 17 year old girl.

4) The act against the shoplifter was committed by a pair of individuals.

Hundred participated in and recorded the stoning of the girl.

SO... Greed v. Love.  Accidental Killing v. Public Execution.   Grown Man v. Young Girl.  Individual Act v. Public Participation.

I would have to say those are the basic differences.  If you cannot draw any significant distinctions between the two, you have some serious issues.

Shadows:

We are not putting England back in power.  We turned the government over to an elected body.

I dont know what 'thousand of casuals' are.

Jesus did not address the situation.  The Roman's were not seeking to quell violence in the province so they could pull their troops out.  They intended to assimilate the entire region into their empire, tax them, and expand from their.  There were also no attacks in which the Jews target Roman civilians at the market or schools.  Additionally, the Roman's were religiously tolerant; the violence in Judea was not religous based but ethnic and territorial.  So no, Jesus did not deal with this.  You are again completely wrong.

I assume "stayed all night" is a euphemism for sex.  If she stayed with an America soldier all night he should be court marshaled.  They are not supposed to have sex with the locals and she is under age.  Additionally, there is no indication "she stayed all night" with anyone.  But to answer your question, no.  I would not feel that we - as a nation - had 'soiled' hands because of it.
---

mr.jaynes:

George W. Bush is the President of the United States.  There is no need to put president in quotations as it is a title and not a pseudonym.

[jdb]

"I would have to say those are the basic differences." -CF

Well obviously, and equally obvious is my inabiltiy to articulate what's been bugging me after reading the two esperate threads, almost back to back.

Both broke rules: both paid with their lives. Is it just the barbarism that affronts our cultural sense of "Just Desserts" for some people?

I conceed, jdb