1957 Plymouth dig up

[BKDotCom]

For some reason this made slashdot.org
Slashdot article/discusion

[sauerkraut]

WoW the pictures look great. I wish I could see it in person. That car guy Boyd Coddington said it's not worth to rebuild it... If it was a '57 Chevy you get parts very easy for it, for a '57 Plymouth I don't know. Tulsa should start a Tridition to bury a car time capsule every 50 years. That would be very cool and draw national attention. I heard that There are no other  known time capsules with cars in them any place in the USA -aside form that other Tulsa time capsule with that $300,000 car in it-.

[RecycleMichael]

This is now the second most replied to thread in TulsaNow forums.

It just passed the Towerview apartments discussion and is just 16 away from the number one topic..."what do you remember".

[sauerkraut]

quote:Originally posted by TurismoDreamin

^^I think they could've put a dual barrier around the actual capsule itself to prevent water from getting to it. On top of that, I also think they could've cemented over the entire area. I mean, that area is a concrete jungle anyway so why no cement over the entire site.But i'm sure back then, they were confident in their work that the cement vault itself would be sufficient enough to seal it in.

I was in attendance at the car show today. I came across one picture that I found interesting. The caption below this picture read something like "torrential rains delayed something on June 1, 1957". Maybe this rain played a detrimental role in the cement's ability to cure correctly...but I don't know anything about cement so it's just a thought...

I think most of the water entered from the lid leaking. A simple way to of saved the car would be to have done  maintence on the vault now & then, perhaps a make a hole in the top  to check for water inside and if found slip in a hose to pump it out. Maybe every 5 or 10  years or so they could of drilled a hole in the top to monitor it. Any new time capsule for another car to be opened in 2057 will have to totaly sealed tight no fooling around if any doubt then have a vault inside a vault. I favor Tulsa start a triditon of cars in time capsules every 50 years. TulsaRamma!

[Breadburner]

Thanks everyone for the pictures....I have some as well but they are still on the camera......

Now...Whats done is done lets see if we can do what we can to preserve her the way she is and make something good come out of this for the future.....I have had a great time with it so far......I still like my idea best of all...haha....Lets raise the vault cut out the east wall in diplay the car in the vault in her current condition....To me filing the vault with dirt and forgeting about it would be another tragedy in itself....The car and all that went with it should be together in museum of it's own or with

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by sauerkraut

I think most of the water entered from the lid leaking.

Me too, I think the vault lid and its sealing was definately the culprit and the big weak point of the tomb.  The lid was in three sections, and gunnite was used to seal these sections together as well as attach it to the vault walls.  The lid did not crack or cave in, but the seals were the weak point.  If they had made the top in one piece and also used some heavy silicone or some type of rubberized caulking (probably not available then), then the results may have been quite different.

[Steve]

Was the car buried with the front windows down, or were they actually able to crank down the front windows?  If they did, did they try to lower the rear seat windows too?

I was rather disappointed that they did not clean up the exterior more before it was revealed to the public.  At least they could have washed off gently as much debris as possible (and a little more water would not have hurted her one bit), wiped off the dirt from the windows, bumpers, wheels and trim, and then kept it behind a curtain.  I guess all they did between 1:00 PM and 7:00 PM was air up the tires and pop the hood.  Perhaps they chose to do nothing out of fear of any further damage, and maybe they made the right decision.

Looks to me like the front torsion bar suspension is still sound enough to support the weight of the car, but the rear suspension failed.  I find it rather cool that they could still air up some of the original tires.

I hope the car winner(s) donates it so it can be restored.  Perhaps "restored" is a misnomer; "rebuilt" is a better term.  To leave it as-is will only let the car slowly disintegrate to dust over time.  A rebuilt car would at least preserve surviving parts the best they can and should create a beautiful car for many years to come.

[sauerkraut]

Another idea would be if back in 1957 they put a plastic sheet over the top of the vault.. I bet the gunite cracked and leaked a few years after 1957, The vault & lid joint looks like it leaked too as water streaks can be seen on the vault walls.. The average life span for a roof on a building is around 20 years, this vault lid went more than double that time.. I seen some close up pictures of the drivers side and it really looks bad there, rust is even around the windows, perhaps from the inside out. I don't think anything can be done with car. I'm no expert but it looks to me like this car sat in the water for a very long time. If the winner does not want the car, will the car go to the 2nd guess and 3rd guess untill they find someone who wants it? or what will happen?  I think it should go on display myself. I would like to see them bury another car for 2057.

[T-Town Now]

quote:Originally posted by Steve

Was the car buried with the front windows down, or were they actually able to crank down the front windows?  If they did, did they try to lower the rear seat windows too?

I was rather disappointed that they did not clean up the exterior more before it was revealed to the public.  At least they could have washed off gently as much debris as possible (and a little more water would not have hurted her one bit), wiped off the dirt from the windows, bumpers, wheels and trim, and then kept it behind a curtain.  I guess all they did between 1:00 PM and 7:00 PM was air up the tires and pop the hood.  Perhaps they chose to do nothing out of fear of any further damage, and maybe they made the right decision.

Looks to me like the front torsion bar suspension is still sound enough to support the weight of the car, but the rear suspension failed.  I find it rather cool that they could still air up some of the original tires.

I hope the car winner(s) donates it so it can be restored.  Perhaps "restored" is a misnomer; "rebuilt" is a better term.  To leave it as-is will only let the car slowly disintegrate to dust over time.  A rebuilt car would at least preserve surviving parts the best they can and should create a beautiful car for many years to come.

I noticed that one or both of the vent windows are missing. I'll bet they popped it off and reached in through that opening to roll the window down. Guess it's a good thing it didn't have power windows, which were an option in 1957.)

I don't think they've managed to get the doors open yet, they were trying to on the TV special, but I never saw either opened.

Hopefully they will let us know what steps are going to be taken to preserve the car, because they won't be able to just stick it somewhere and expect it to not keep deteriorating.

I also wish they'd cleaned it up a bit more, perhaps they will now that it's been on display. That dirt will just trap moisture and allow the rust to progress. I was surprised at how shiny the chrome seems to be, it normally rusts almost as bad as the body.

[TurismoDreamin]

MY PICTURES!!

These are from the car show Saturday. My pictures uploaded backwards so you won't find pictures of the Belvedere itself until the second page of the photo set.

Link:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/honzie101/sets/72157600383985371/

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by T-Town Now

I also wish they'd cleaned it up a bit more, perhaps they will now that it's been on display. That dirt will just trap moisture and allow the rust to progress. I was surprised at how shiny the chrome seems to be, it normally rusts almost as bad as the body.

Yea, I thought that was the main point of the 7-hour delay from unearthing to display, to clean her up and check out the engine for possible starting.  Granted the engine was a lost cause, but they sure could have done much more cosmetic cleaning.  I watched it from TV, but I was fully expecting to see her washed off as well as possible, with the windows cleaned at the very least.  Looks like the officials just stood around and "chewed the fat" for 6 hours.

[custosnox]

I've noticed a lot of you have suggested burying another car.  This has already been done.  In 1998 a Plymouth Prowler (keeping with the Plymouth theme) was was put in a vault in centinial park downtown.  It was not put underground as the Belvedier.  Instead, it was placed in an above ground vault, in hopes of keeping some of the problems that have becoming apparent at bay.  It was also placed inside a plastic "box" inside the vault, sealed air tight. The plastic box was filled with an inert gas to protect the paint.  All oil and fluids were drained and replaced with synthetics that won't breakdown.  

This project was done in celebration of Tulsa's 100th birthday.  Here's to seeing it coming out in prestine condition in '48

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by custosnox

I've noticed a lot of you have suggested burying another car.  This has already been done.  In 1998 a Plymouth Prowler (keeping with the Plymouth theme) was was put in a vault in centinial park downtown.  It was not put underground as the Belvedier.  Instead, it was placed in an above ground vault, in hopes of keeping some of the problems that have becoming apparent at bay.  It was also placed inside a plastic "box" inside the vault, sealed air tight. The plastic box was filled with an inert gas to protect the paint.  All oil and fluids were drained and replaced with synthetics that won't breakdown.  

This project was done in celebration of Tulsa's 100th birthday.  Here's to seeing it coming out in prestine condition in '48

I think most of us here are well aware of the '98 Plymouth Prowler and the facts of its burial.

I will be 91 years old, should I survive to see the Prowler rolled out.  Heck, Max True, the man whose company constructed the gunnite vault for the 1957 Plymouth is alive and well and was in the stands when they lifted her from the ground.  I felt sorry for him that it was not in better shape, but felt really thrilled that he was here today to see the car lifted from the vault.

[T-Town Now]

So what's on the agenda for the Belvedere now?

I know that the winning name is supposed to be announced sometime this week, and they announced that they had to allow 5 years for the winner to come forward.

They're going to have to do quite a bit to stabilize the car, or 5 years from now it will be even worse than it is now.

My dream scenario? The winner says they can't take the car, and gives it to the City of Tulsa. Then, the Chrysler dealers in town award the winner a new Chrysler or Dodge car.

At that point, the City of Tulsa could do extensive photography of the car, and open an account for donations to restore it. Perhaps even a voluntary $1/month to water bills or something for those who would like to see the car restored.

I think it would be a disgrace to leave it the way it is. It needs to be made like new again. I'd sure like to see what the inner side of the fenders and rear quarters looks like. The under side of the hood doesn't look too bad, mostly surface rust. The deck lid inner supports have come unwelded, but deck lids should be easy to find for this car.

Right now on eBay, there are NOS taillight assemblies, rockers, and lots of other things. I think that would be an easy and worthwhile car to do. I know people would come from all over the world to see it after it's done. Perhaps another big "Belvedere unearthing" celebration in 5 years?

[Steve]

quote:Originally posted by T-Town Now

So what's on the agenda for the Belvedere now?

I know that the winning name is supposed to be announced sometime this week, and they announced that they had to allow 5 years for the winner to come forward.

Right now on eBay, there are NOS taillight assemblies, rockers, and lots of other things. I think that would be an easy and worthwhile car to do. I know people would come from all over the world to see it after it's done.

The winning entry is supposed to be announced this coming Friday, 6-22-07.  I suppose they will pick the winner from the surviving post card entries that were found in the time capsule.  A microfilm may or may not have existed, but they have to use the best surviving records we have.

I absolutely think the car should be restored.  Car restorers have built vintage cars from nothing but a surviving door handle and good intentions.  To leave Tulsa's semicentennial car in its current condition, only to rot further and deteriorate to dust, would be a big shame.  I hope the car's winner feels the same as me.