Starting to Limit the Rumble & Roar-5/30 Meeting

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by sgrizzle

quote:Originally posted by inteller

SECTION 721. MUFFLERS, PREVENTION OF NOISE
Every motor vehicle shall at all times be equipped with a muffler in good working
order and in constant operation to prevent excessive or unusual noise and annoying
smoke, and no person shall use a muffler cut-out, by-pass or similar device upon a motor
vehicle on any street or highway. No person shall modify the exhaust system of a motor
vehicle in any manner which will amplify or increase the noise or sound emitted louder
than that emitted by the muffler originally installed on the vehicle.
Ord. No. 13642


maybe if they would enforce that there wouldn't be a need to have a bunch of meetings

I'm impressed to see it written that way, especially as seeing a high percentage of Tulsa, and even this forum, would have to be ticketed.

The difference between putting cutouts and putting flowmasters on a camaro is a big one. I've seen a camaro with flowmasters and tpd plates before. Plus, stock exhaust on my 2003 is louder than the same vehicle in 2005. So if someone modified a 2005 to sound like a 2003, is that okay?

no that would not be ok.  If you want it to sound louder, sell the stock 2005 and buy a stock 2003.  They can do nothing about a truely stock vehicle, but modifying it to make it louder gets you in trouble.

i doubt it would get most of Tulsans in trouble.  it would get all the a**hole civic drivers in trouble that have those stupid buzz cans on the back.  I think once you break the bank of all those fast and furious wannabes plus the baffle buster harley riders, you will have cleaned up a good portion of noise pollution in the city.

[jdb]

The acticle(s) do not speak to DBL limits; how loud is loud?, nor is there anything in the articles about coustom cars and one-off motorbikes that come "originally" equipped with less then quiet pipes.

Besides, people are probably more bothered by the pressure not the volume. It's the wrong fight, and borders on discrimination.

As written, the article(s) are worthless if contested.

Some easy reading on the subject:

http://www.cyclerides.com/WeeklyUpdate12_20_06.htm

"...to what many regard as a growing noise pollution and safety problem...."

Am looking forward to seeing how many Rumblephobes it takes to fire up a City Coucilor
and just excatly who's personal safety is at risk here?
jdb

[tim huntzinger]

quote:Originally posted by jdb


. . . borders on discrimination.

Heh heh, heh heh . . .

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

The acticle(s) do not speak to DBL limits; how loud is loud?, nor is there anything in the articles about coustom cars and one-off motorbikes that come "originally" equipped with less then quiet pipes.

Besides, people are probably more bothered by the pressure not the volume. It's the wrong fight, and borders on discrimination.

As written, the article(s) are worthless if contested.

Some easy reading on the subject:

http://www.cyclerides.com/WeeklyUpdate12_20_06.htm

"...to what many regard as a growing noise pollution and safety problem...."

Am looking forward to seeing how many Rumblephobes it takes to fire up a City Coucilor
and just excatly who's personal safety is at risk here?
jdb

well custom bikes are made by a properly licensed outfit.  However if that outfit is deemed to be making excessively loud or polluting bikes, their license could be revoked and the offending bikes might have to be recalled.  state or federal law would take care of that.

the city's ordinance is making the assumption that the motor vehicle already meets state and federal guidelines.

[dbacks fan]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

The acticle(s) do not speak to DBL limits; how loud is loud?, nor is there anything in the articles about coustom cars and one-off motorbikes that come "originally" equipped with less then quiet pipes.

Besides, people are probably more bothered by the pressure not the volume. It's the wrong fight, and borders on discrimination.

As written, the article(s) are worthless if contested.

Some easy reading on the subject:

http://www.cyclerides.com/WeeklyUpdate12_20_06.htm

"...to what many regard as a growing noise pollution and safety problem...."

Am looking forward to seeing how many Rumblephobes it takes to fire up a City Coucilor
and just excatly who's personal safety is at risk here?
jdb

jdb, do you live in the Phoenix area?

[jdb]

"the city's ordinance is making the assumption that the motor vehicle already meets state and federal guidelines." - inteller

Well, there you go.
Looks like what we got here is assumptions and officiers discretion which is clear as mud in a court of law.
Go figure.


"jdb, do you live in the Phoenix area?"

Part time, I run South for the winter - much like a SnOwBird, but having roots, brothers, and obligations in Arizona it's slightly different.

I prefer my open space in the high desert below Jerome but often find myself rolling down to Tucson for adult activities for weeks on end.

I was in on some of the deal when the testing was performed. There are gobs of cities around the country dealing with this issue.
We should be taking notes from their efforts - successfull and otherwise.

Why you ask?

[tulsa1603]

The city prohibits "jake braking" of trucks within city limits, and many of these motorcycles are louder than that IMHO.  I used to live about a block in from Peoria along that magic strip between Brookside and Cherry Street, and let me tell you, nowhere else in Tulsa are people subjected to that kind of irritation.  I can only imagine what people that live right ON Peoria have to deal with.  REgular traffic noise is what these people expected and signed up for, but these occassional bursts of explosive exhaust note are above and beyond regular.  Cities are indeed noisy places but what's the limit going to be?  Why is it OK to ticket a teenager for loud music but not a R.U.B. for his loud exhaust?

[jdb]

"Why is it OK to ticket a teenager for loud music but not a R.U.B. for his loud exhaust?"

I assume you mean, "Why are not all vehicles emitting DB's above some determined level, be it audio or mechanical, given a citation!", no?

Some motorbikes have audio systems that can box your ears and some cages have loud pipes that rival small jet engines.

Might have to define small jet engine, though.

But with your verbage an elderly person could blast out an aria in D minor at 107dbs at the light of 51st and Memorial and not be breaking the law. I get your point though.

To think riders don't call other riders out for creating problems is wrong. To think all confrontations end in bloodshed is only partly wrong. To think that everyone on a bike is a RUB is completely wrong.

Among the "laws on the subject":
"...or by running any horse at unusual speed along any street...".

It's selective as nowhere are mules, camels, or large rodents named. And should the horse emit a loud fart while running at unusal speed's... does that make the rider a felon?


Flippant to stress my point: who detremines the DB threshold? What is it sound or pressure? Who is certified to measure and enforce a violation?...and where's my bag of pop corn?

[RecycleMichael]

Title 21. Crimes and Punishments
Chapter 55
Section 1362 - Disturbance by Loud or Unusual Noise or Abusive, Violent, Obscene, Profane or Threatening Language

If any person shall willfully or maliciously disturb, either by day or night, the peace and quiet of any city of the first class, town, village, neighborhood, family or person by loud or unusual noise, or by abusive, violent, obscene or profane language, whether addressed to the party so disturbed or some other person, or by threatening to kill, do bodily harm or injury, destroy property, fight, or by quarreling or challenging to fight, or fighting, or shooting off any firearms, or brandishing the same, or by running any horse at unusual speed along any street, alley, highway or public road, he shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor, and, on conviction thereof, shall be fined in any sum not to exceed One Hundred Dollars ($100.00), or by imprisonment in the county jail not to exceed thirty (30) days, or by both such fine and imprisonment, at the discretion of the court or jury trying the same.

Last night when I got into my pool...the water was so cold I howled like a screaming monkey. I am glad my neighbors don't know about this ordinance.

[sgrizzle]

Noise pollution is the only kind of pollution that you can forced to regulate by a governing body that is not even willing to measure it.

[jdb]

"...by a governing body..." - sgrizzle

Which is typically prodded on by one individual with an axe to grind who builds a band wagon in which to parade his supports around in.

Odd, there's no mention of leaf blowers.

Oooo, could this be a backdoor ruse to introduce language, at the last second, to include leaf blowers, which could be wielded by illegal's, and thus our local boys in blue could legally ask for Green cards on sleepy, Sunday mornings?

Isn't that the way of politic's?

Deport the Howling Monkeys!
jdb

[daddys little squirt]

I am glad to see Jb checked in with some logic. It is in fact only the Db levels that can be used to decide what is acceptable noise. No one wants to subject all noises in the city to measurement and enforcement of nuisance laws.

If we did, then so long to the media helicopters, the beer trucks and WWII flyovers. All are in excess of pleasant DB levels.

Consider this. I once measured noise along the River with a Radio Shack Db meter (it was so cool someone stole it). Subjects: Beer truck going over 11th street bridge, cicadas in towering Sycamores, city trucks heading across 21st bridge, motorcyclists along Riverside, rowing crew boats with megaphones. Guess what? They were all at one point in "the red zone". Admittedly, the helicopters and glorycycles were the loudest but all were over 80db up to 105db. One could not have had a conversation under the noise of the late summer cicadas.

Shall we cut down the Sycamores?

[TheArtist]

JDB in response to your response lol.  Didnt want to take up that much space so didnt quote it.  

First, I will say I feel like giving up trying to argue the case about "loud pipes saving lives".   I think it would be too hard to argue something like that on here post after post, you always lose something or forget something in the writing of it.  Honestly I never really notice that noise when I am in my car.  I have either hardly ever passed someone in my car who had loud pipes or cant hear it when I am in my car anyway so can't offer a genuine opinion on whether it would make me more aware of someone on a bike or not. But, I personally wouldn't
make my bike loud even if it could possibly save my life because I wouldn't want to be that loud and annoying to others. I wouldn't ride if I felt that was the only choice. I remember living in Paris for a while and working in working London for a bit, I saw lots of motorcycles and vespas but never once heard any of those loud bikes. I guarantee you the traffic in both of those places is far worse than here, perhaps they just didn't know about the life saving qualities of being super loud? Or, by chance simply didn't hear any. I honestly can't even imagine something that loud going down the streets of Paris and getting away with it.

 I am going to start over and get to the gist of why I don't like those loud pipes.

When I and some friends are sitting outdoors eating, say along Brookside, and those loud bikes go by, it can be so loud that the conversation has to stop.  We are all suddenly forced to sit there, shut up, and listen to that noise.  I just think thats rude and annoying.

I was at Blue Dome and some bikers came by and parked in the parking lot behind me and some had really loud bikes. I think one of the people who had a booth had a bike as well and they were his friends. Now that area was loud to begin with but those bikes were even louder and they certainly wouldn't qualify as "ambient noise" lol. (I know you don't like my lol's but I do laugh a lot lol) I swear it seemed as though half the time I got on the phone they or he, started up and I couldn't hear a thing.  ( You weren't there waiting and watching for me to try and talk on my phone were ya? [])  But anyway, I found that annoying.

Fortunately I no longer live along brookside and there is nobody who goes down my street on one of those loud bikes. If they did, that would be another example.  Mowers don't bother me for I have never heard one that is as loud as those bikes.

We can argue round and round about cicadas, leaf blowers, loud music, kids loving it when you rev it up, and all of that.  But ya have to admit those super loud bikes are annoying when they go by.  Even if they aren't to you, I bet if we were to take a vote a good majority of people would.

The very fact that there are laws against certain types of loud noises means I can't be too alone and crazy in my opinion that those loud bikes are annoying.

I really think its sad that there has to be a law or ordinance against things like loud music in your car or in the neighboring apartment or about loud bikes. I often like listening to loud music but I try to be aware of when it may be annoying to others, like at a stop light or along Brookside, and turn it down.  I just think thats being considerate.

[dbacks fan]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

"the city's ordinance is making the assumption that the motor vehicle already meets state and federal guidelines." - inteller

Well, there you go.
Looks like what we got here is assumptions and officiers discretion which is clear as mud in a court of law.
Go figure.


"jdb, do you live in the Phoenix area?"

Part time, I run South for the winter - much like a SnOwBird, but having roots, brothers, and obligations in Arizona it's slightly different.

I prefer my open space in the high desert below Jerome but often find myself rolling down to Tucson for adult activities for weeks on end.

I was in on some of the deal when the testing was performed. There are gobs of cities around the country dealing with this issue.
We should be taking notes from their efforts - successfull and otherwise.

Why you ask?

I was curious as to wether or not you have been to the Cave Creek Carefree area, and by your response and being involved in some of the testing there qualifies you to talk about it. I live just west of Cave Creek Road in norht Phoenix it is the main route other than Scottsdale Road and Pima Road to that area, and it is the one that is most traveled by the riders to go north, espescially with Buddy Stubbs HD and the other motor cycle shops between Cactus and Bell Road on Cave Creek. The biggest theing to me is that if you have one to three bikes together it's not too bad. But if you have travelled that route on the weekends it is not uncommon for there to be 10 to 30 riding in a group going up there on the weekends. For me while it can be irratating, I can't blame the riders because it is such a nice ride up that road to Cave Creek and Carefree, The Road House in Carefree, Bartlett Lake and Seven Springs area.
If I road it would be hard to keep me at home during the weekends.

I understand what Carefree was trying to do, because if you are trying to have a quiet dinner at some of the resteraunts up there it can be difficult with 10 open pipe HD's going by.

I also understand the riders perspective, I had a brother that was a member of ABATE, and his motto was "Live to ride, and ride to live" he never got married, his women were his Moto Guzzi's, and I got to know alot of his friends while residing in Tulsa.

[Rico]

Well I think I will sit this one out jdb........
I was already to mention a chainsaw until the part about the dude with the booth and parking behind the Blue Dome....

[}:)]