BOK Center an Edsel?

[sportyart]

Big 12: Tulsa falls short in Big 12 bidding

Does this make our plans for the BOK Center an Edsel for the use for the BIG 12 Basketball games?

By BILL HAISTEN World Sports Writer
5/26/2007
Site of women's tournament may have hurt city's chances.


After Tulsa was turned down in its bid to host the 2010 or 2011 Big 12 men's and women's basketball tournaments, conference commissioner Kevin Weiberg indicated in a Kansas City Star report that the league would prefer not to play its tourney games on the home court of a nonmember school.

Mike Dodson, executive director of the Tulsa Sports Commission, said Tulsa's bid proposed the playing of men's games at the downtown BOK Center and the women's games at Oral Roberts University's Mabee Center or the University of Tulsa's Reynolds Center.

"We were told that some member institutions did not favor playing the championship on another institution's home floor," said Dodson, who attended the Big 12 spring meetings in Colorado Springs. "We were not told that it disqualified us, but it had been discussed in some circles.

"In addition to the Mabee Center, we decided to include the Reynolds Center in our bid because it was closer to downtown. We wanted to give them options."

The 2009 Big 12 event was awarded to Oklahoma City.

Kansas City, Mo., already had been given the 2008 tournaments, and on Thursday. Kansas City also was awarded the 2010 and 2011 tournaments. Men's games will be played at the new $276 million Sprint Center and women's games at the Municipal Auditorium.

Oklahoma City was a first-time Big 12 host this year. The Oklahoma City games were played at two downtown venues, with men competing at the Ford Center and women at the Cox Convention Center.

Dodson said Tulsa officials "will not be dissuaded" from continuing to bid for Big 12 basketball events and NCAA Tournament sub-regionals.

"I didn't think our Big 12 bid this year was a long shot, but I knew it was a process," Dodson said. "We're in the ballgame with what's happening in the future. I really believe we're on the short list."

Next year, Dodson said, Tulsa will bid to host an NCAA sub-regional in 2011 or 2012. Dodson expressed confidence that Tulsa can secure a sub-regional. Tulsa is comparable to several cities that will host subregional games in 2008 (Omaha, Neb.; Little Rock, Birmingham, Ala.) and 2009 (Boise, Idaho, and Dayton, Ohio).

Big 12 change: Since the inception of the Big 12 basketball tournaments, the women have played their championship game on Saturday night and the men on Sunday afternoon. Beginning in 2009, there will be a switch -- with the men playing on Saturday and the women on Sunday. The men's tournament will become a Wednesday-through-Sunday format. The women will open play on Thursday.

Big 12 men's coaches lobbied for the change. The NCAA Tournament men's field is finalized on the same Sunday that the Big 12 men have played their championship game. With the league's move to a Saturday championship, the NCAA men's selection committee has more time to consider Big 12 teams.

Also, Kansas coach Bill Self told the Kansas City Star, "It removes the possibility of a team in the championship game returning late Sunday night and going to an NCAA site early Tuesday, which could be a competitive disadvantage."

Tulsa World

[swake]

Quote:
We were told that some member institutions did not favor playing the championship on another institution's home floor," said Dodson, who attended the Big 12 spring meetings in Colorado Springs. "We were not told that it disqualified us, but it had been discussed in some circles.


The Tulsa World is a joke. Kansas City got two years, and the women's tournament in KC is going to be played Municipal Auditorium, which does happen to be the home court for UMKC, which even happens to be in the same conference as ORU.

[swake]

The "on campus" part would make sense. And I'm sure the Pavillion is too small, I think it only seats 6000.

[bacjz00]

I'm still interested to know how OKC managed to leave parts of the old Myriad intact as a sporting venue, while converting the rest to convention space and then building the Ford Center on top of it all!  It sounds like outside of the Big XII Women's tournament, the Cox Convention Center isn't even used much...did OKC leave it behind as an arena solely for this tournament every 3rd year?  Dallas and K.C. though are doing the same thing by leaving Reunion Arena and Municpical Auditorium around to host events.  At least Municipal has a home tenant though.  Did Tulsa miss the boat on this by deciding to take out ALL of the seats at the existing Maxwell Convention Center?  It seems like other cities really look at the big picture when planning their facilities...I hope we didn't screw this up.

[jdb]

...even if someone did drop the ball, I hope there's a smarter person in the room for a recovery.

I fought the need, fundng method, design, and location of the thing, but it's going up and there better be someone who knows how to grease palms, twist arms, call in favors, or whatever the dynamics of sports productions are to book the place.

[Rico]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

...even if someone did drop the ball, I hope there's a smarter person in the room for a recovery.

I fought the need, fundng method, design, and location of the thing, but it's going up and there better be someone who knows how to grease palms, twist arms, call in favors, or whatever the dynamics of sports productions are to book the place.

Sports..? I thought it was going to be Tulsa's answer to the "Crystal Cathedral"...?

And on the off days...

Ricky Martin.

It has been a very good "promo item" for Tulsa..

Hope they put some kinda wind in the sails so it can at least remain that.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by bacjz00

I'm still interested to know how OKC managed to leave parts of the old Myriad intact as a sporting venue, while converting the rest to convention space and then building the Ford Center on top of it all!  It sounds like outside of the Big XII Women's tournament, the Cox Convention Center isn't even used much...did OKC leave it behind as an arena solely for this tournament every 3rd year?  Dallas and K.C. though are doing the same thing by leaving Reunion Arena and Municpical Auditorium around to host events.  At least Municipal has a home tenant though.  Did Tulsa miss the boat on this by deciding to take out ALL of the seats at the existing Maxwell Convention Center?  It seems like other cities really look at the big picture when planning their facilities...I hope we didn't screw this up.

We didn't. The old Convention Center would be way too small and infinitely too crappy to host the Big XII women's event. It wasn't even good enough for the NAIA tournament -- 5 years ago! We'll be far better off with the ballroom configuration in that space.

sporty, I'm sorry, but I take issue with the title of this thread. We bid for the very first time for an event against 5 others cities -- all of which are bigger than us, 3 of which have hosted it before. We don't win the bid, so the arena's an Edsel? REALLY??

The very first time in a person's life they ask someone out on a date, if they get a no are they a hopeless loser?

[TheTed]

Nobody's come out and said it, but lack of a thriving downtown has to hurt the bids. Lots of fans are going to want to stay downtown, walk to the games then walk to dining/nightlife afterward. We don't have enough hotels downtown and there's not much as far as dining options when the games end at 11 p.m.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by jdb

...even if someone did drop the ball, I hope there's a smarter person in the room for a recovery.

I fought the need, fundng method, design, and location of the thing, but it's going up and there better be someone who knows how to grease palms, twist arms, call in favors, or whatever the dynamics of sports productions are to book the place.

Carbon copy of my own opinions.

[jdb]

"...and there's not much as far as dining options when the games end at 11 p.m." - The Ted

Dude, Caz's sells Snickers and sometimes Beef Jerky till 2:00 AM, what you talking about?


"...ask someone out on a date, if they get a no are they a hopeless loser?" - AJ

Made me one.
That's why I cruise the Brookside parking lots Friday nights on my bike - setting off every ones car alarm with the rumble.

"Sports..?" - rico

Yeah, Sports...you know, a big honking basketball court? Move some curtains around and Pesto! it's still a big honking Basketball court!

[Conan71]

I'll refrain from saying "I told you so" until after Tulsa fails to get bids on the NCAA tourney.

[sportyart]

I was about to point out the same issue with the worlds statement on the use of the second arena in KC. But I guess what I am trying to point out is, should we consider not taking out the arena in the convention center. It seems like the BIG 12 likes having the location so close. I have no idea what the Tulsa Sports Commission was thinking with the use of the Mabee Center if only for its size. Its way to far away from downtown and no easy direct route to get there. Reynolds center is a good location, and so is the Pavilion. How many people do they really expect to get in to watch women's basketball? I am curious if anyone can find out the number of tickets that they took each day when they played in OKC last year. I would think that the women would like to have more people close together in a smaller facility to make it sound louder and bigger.

[tjay88]

The women's championship game had 12,413 in attendance.  The convention center arena is nowhere near good enough for the women's tournament.

This is the reason I was almost certain we wouldn't get a bid.  The arena not being completed and there not being any of the infrastructure (restaurants, bars, hotels, etc. . .) needed in place around the arena were obvious things that would hurt our chances.  Although those will hopefully be fixed in time.  The issue of needing a second arena for the women's tournament will never be resolved.

As far as the NCAA's go.  I really do feel like we have a shot at those.  At least once there are more hotels, restaurants, etc. . . actually downtown.  

[sportyart]

Big 12 Women's Basketball Attendance

Session 1 (Tuesday, 1st round)
1,124    1997
1,560    1998
2,946    1999
3,770    2000
6,077    2001
4,652    2002
3,061    2003
5,400    2004
3,251    2005
1,820    2006
Session 2 (Tuesday, 1st round)
1,768    1997
2,162    1998
3,264    1999
4,023    2000
2,454    2001
7,126    2002
3,045    2003
2,624    2004
4,345    2005
1,423    2006
Session 3 (Wednesday, 2nd round)
2,421    1997
1,700    1998
5,264    1999
3,550    2000
3,221    2001
4,781    2002
6,405    2003
8,771    2004
5,119    2005
4,358    2006
Session 4 (Wednesday, 2nd round)
2,670    1997
4,052    1998
5,137    1999
3,614    2000
6,408    2001
4,715    2002
5,735    2003
3,326    2004
4,038    2005
3,065    2006
Session 5 (Thursday, semifinals)
3,565    1997
3,500    1998
6,230    1999
5,865    2000
5,518    2001
5,482    2002
6,656    2003
6,165    2004
4,068    2005
4,212    2006
Session 6 (Saturday, championship)
7,152    1997
5,800    1998
8,127    1999
9,130    2000 (sellout)
8,153    2001
6,197    2002
10,717    2003
8,226    2004
6,108    2005
10,673    2006
12,413   2007
Day One Total (Tuesday only)
2,892    1997
3,722    1998
6,210    1999
7,793    2000
8,531    2001
11,778    2002
6,106    2003
8,024    2004
10,847    2005
3,243    2006
Day Two Total (Wednesday Only)
5,091    1997
5,752    1998
10,401    1999
7,164    2000
9,629    2001
9,496    2002
12,140    2003
12,097    2004
9,157    2005
7,423    2006
Three-Day Total (Tues.-
11,548    1997
12,974    1998
22,841    1999
20,822    2000
23,678    2001
26,756    2002
24,902    2003
26,286    2004
24,072    2005
14,878    2006
Tournament Total
18,700    1997
18,774    1998
30,968    1999
29,952    2000
31,831    2001
32,953    2002
35,619    2003
34,512    2004
26,929    2005
25,551    2006
Tournament Averages
3,116    1997
2,129    1998
5,161    1999
4,994    2000
5,350    2001
5,492    2002
5,937    2003
5,809    2004
6,108    2005
4,259    2006

Championship Sites
Venue City Years Capacity
Municipal Auditorium Kansas City, Mo. 1997-2002, 05, 08    9,130
Reunion Arena Dallas, Texas 2003-04, 06          19,000
Cox Convention Center Oklahoma City, Okla. 2007       13,300

If they are going to be using Municipal Auditorium again for the women's games, Tulsa's Convention Center Arena holds 8,900 which holds more than any one non championship game or even the Expo Square Pavilion would work. They could then hold the championship game in the BOK center.

[Rico]

Hate to be the one to throw kerosene on a fire.......But here goes..


Arena delays other city projects

Last Update: May 31, 2007 4:36 PM

         

(DOWNTOWN TULSA, Okla.) May 31 - Construction costs for Tulsa's downtown arena have skyrocketed, likely pushing back other projects for years.



It's $45 million over budget.  But the Vision 2025 Authority says it is still Tulsa's top priority and the money has to come from somewhere.



City leaders say they're determined to get this arena completed.  And construction is ongoing despite the budget shortfall.



But some projects, like the one at the Oxley Nature Center is not so fortunate.  Their $800,000 funding has been delayed for at least three years.



It's a labor of love for volunteer Dick Sherry.  It began 33 years ago, the same day his first daughter was born.  â€œThat’s the first day I went to meet the park board.â€?



And after all these years, he says the building needed a redo.  Exhibits, outside ramps, bathrooms, it needs a complete overhaul.  â€œWhen we started hearing comments that nothing has changed, we realized it was high time to go ahead and really makes some improvements.â€?



Vision 2025 was supposed to provide $800,000 for the work.  But Sherry recently found out that money is now on hold so it could help fund the over-budgeted downtown arena.  â€œIt’s very disappointing because we’ve had a very good relationship with the city for many years.â€?



But Mayor Kathy Taylor says she and the city have no control over how money is prioritized for Vision 2025.  The decision to reallocate money came from the county's Vision 2025 Authority.  â€œIt was a unanimous agreement, that this is a high priority for the event center.  Construction costs have increased across the countryâ€?, said Mayor Taylor.



And Taylor says Tulsa is just one city, among many, vying for Vision 2025 funds.  â€œThis is only less than two-tenths of one percent of all the 2025 funding.  So we’re hoping someone could shake it out of a tree somewhere.â€?



Mayor Taylor says now that all the funds have been shifted around, the arena is still on track to be completed in September of 2008.



In addition to Oxley Nature Center, the city says some of the Route 66 projects and the Centennial Walk project are also on hold.