Are there no honest contractors in Tulsa?

[Ibanez]

Last year I had to take one to Small Claims Court because he did shoddy work and refused to come make repairs.

I just got back from the Courthouse from picking up the paperwork to take another contractor to Small Claims Court because he didn't do the job as promised, refuses to fix it and refuses to refund my money. Plus to top it all off he called and left me a voice mail on my cell phone cussing me out after he received my certified letter demanding a refund.

[cannon_fodder]

What kind of work are you having done?

I had my roof done by Oltmann Homes a few years back and they treated me very well.  Got the job done quick and for the price they promise.  I know they are busy with other projects at the moment, but honest ones do exist.

I try to do everything my damn self for the reasons you stated.

[Ibanez]

First one was an entire bathroom remodel.

The recent one was just the removal of a tile floor and tile on the walls of a different bathroom and then putting new tile down.

He tore the tile off the walls but laid the new tile over the existing tile. I got home, saw it and threw a fit. My Dad who was there watching over things told me that when he asked the tile guy why he was putting new tile over old the tile guy told him I had approved laying the new tile over the old. Which is not true.

I called and told him I wanted him to come redo the job. He said he would "make it right. After that I didn't hear from him so I kept leaving him messages. Still nothing.

Last week I sent him a certified letter demanding he refund my $ by June 11th or I would file a case in Small Claims Court. Today he called and left the angry message. Then When I called him all he wanted to do was cuss me out. I asked "are you going to give me my money back?" He said "You can go to hell before I give you a dime back." To which I replied "I will see you in court then." and hung up as he continued to cuss.

[guido911]

Sorry you are having bad luck. Not to offend, but your post reminds me, however, of a line from the movie "Naked Gun":

Jane Spencer (Pricella Presley):  How could you
do something so vicious?

Vincent Ludwig (Ricardo Montalban):            
It was easy. Don't forget I spent
two years as a building contractor.

[]

[tulsa1603]

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Sorry you are having bad luck. Not to offend, but your post reminds me, however, of a line from the movie "Naked Gun":

Jane Spencer (Pricella Presley):  How could you
do something so vicious?

Vincent Ludwig (Ricardo Montalban):            
It was easy. Don't forget I spent
two years as a building contractor.

[]

I honestly feel sorry for building contractors.  They, like lawyers, get a bad reputation, but their job is VERY difficult.  Try managing ten different subcontractors, then when one of them screws something up, the cost of fixing it comes out of your profit.  On top of that, everyone wants something for nothing, so you bust your a$$ trying to find the best prices, the lowest priced subs (therefore the crummiest) etc., but if anything goes wrong, ANYTHING AT ALL, the client expects you to eat it.  It is a very difficult profession to make money in.

Not knowing anything about your project, I can only speculate, but I bet he just "assumed" it would be ok to overlay the tile, and that the two of you hadn't actually agreed to the method, at least not in writing?  And now that he has made you unhappy, it's easier for him just to walk away rather than rip it out, replace it, etc..since that would guarantee him to lose money.  Please tell me that you haven't paid him the entire cost yet, since the work wasn't complete, right?   If not, let this be a lesson.  In the work I've done as a general contractor, I only pay subs for materials in advance, I don't pay them a dime for labor until I am happy with the work, unless it's a long project, in which case I will pay in draws as a percentage of completion.  BTW I don't work as a general contractor at all anymore and never will again.  It was a frustrating experience. []

[Ibanez]

quote:Originally posted by tulsa1603

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Sorry you are having bad luck. Not to offend, but your post reminds me, however, of a line from the movie "Naked Gun":

Jane Spencer (Pricella Presley):  How could you
do something so vicious?

Vincent Ludwig (Ricardo Montalban):            
It was easy. Don't forget I spent
two years as a building contractor.

[]

I honestly feel sorry for building contractors.  They, like lawyers, get a bad reputation, but their job is VERY difficult.  Try managing ten different subcontractors, then when one of them screws something up, the cost of fixing it comes out of your profit.  On top of that, everyone wants something for nothing, so you bust your a$$ trying to find the best prices, the lowest priced subs (therefore the crummiest) etc., but if anything goes wrong, ANYTHING AT ALL, the client expects you to eat it.  It is a very difficult profession to make money in.

Not knowing anything about your project, I can only speculate, but I bet he just "assumed" it would be ok to overlay the tile, and that the two of you hadn't actually agreed to the method, at least not in writing?  And now that he has made you unhappy, it's easier for him just to walk away rather than rip it out, replace it, etc..since that would guarantee him to lose money.  Please tell me that you haven't paid him the entire cost yet, since the work wasn't complete, right?   If not, let this be a lesson.  In the work I've done as a general contractor, I only pay subs for materials in advance, I don't pay them a dime for labor until I am happy with the work, unless it's a long project, in which case I will pay in draws as a percentage of completion.  BTW I don't work as a general contractor at all anymore and never will again.  It was a frustrating experience. []

Both the original quote and the signed contract I have contain a line item for removing the floor tile. Laying the new tile over the old tile was never mentioned. Had it been I would not have approved. Frankly it looks like ****.

The contractor was paid. Due to the fact I could not get off work my Dad was hanging out in the house while he did the work. When my Dad saw that he was putting the new tile over the top of the old he questioned the contractor about it. At that point the contractor said "I discussed this with your son and this is the way he wanted to do it." Not true at all, but my Dad took him at his word.

When the work was complete my Dad gave him the check I had left for him.It was not until I got home that I found out what had happened. When I did I called the contractor and let him know I was unhappy. He said "I will make it right." After than I never heard from him. I left multiple messages on his cell phone and home answering machine. He never responded. That is when I sent the certified letter demanding a refund.

[citizen72]

A big part of the problem here is in Oklahoma there is no real agency control over builders. I am in architecture and hold about twenty licenses in various states. It is common in other states for builders to be required to test into the business and are required to not accept projects in which they are not proved to be qualified. Oh sure there is a licensing requirement, but not a determination of qualification. The only savinf grace here is that the Electrical, Mechanical and plumbing subcontractors do have to test which is good. It should however include the contractors of all sizes

The AGC (Association of General Contractors) in this state is quiet influential with the legislators. Because of this I do not see a law in the works that would cause builders to have to qualify in able to do work in Oklahoma. Until this happens anyone with the price of a hammer will be able to hang their shingle out professing to be a qualified builder.

From experience it seems a lot of the time the problem with the builders, especially the small ones, is lack of knowledge of the construction process and the subtleties involved.

[cannon_fodder]

Citizen:

Is there an organization that registers 'qualified' contractors?   If not, perhaps such an organization should be formed as I would greatly appreciate their services.  IMHO, when the government gets involved things may improve in some areas but then we will see higher prices and complaining from contractors about the delays, expense, and extra paper work.

Government is rarely the answer.

[AngieB]

www.angieslist.com is a start:

quote: About Angie's List

A word-of-mouth network for consumers Angie's List is a growing collection of homeowners' real-life
experiences with local service companies. The people who join Angie's List are like you — looking for a way to find trustworthy companies that perform high-quality work.

[tulsa1603]

quote:Originally posted by wavoka

quote:Originally posted by tulsa1603

quote:Originally posted by guido911

Sorry you are having bad luck. Not to offend, but your post reminds me, however, of a line from the movie "Naked Gun":

Jane Spencer (Pricella Presley):  How could you
do something so vicious?

Vincent Ludwig (Ricardo Montalban):            
It was easy. Don't forget I spent
two years as a building contractor.

[]

I honestly feel sorry for building contractors.  They, like lawyers, get a bad reputation, but their job is VERY difficult.  Try managing ten different subcontractors, then when one of them screws something up, the cost of fixing it comes out of your profit.  On top of that, everyone wants something for nothing, so you bust your a$$ trying to find the best prices, the lowest priced subs (therefore the crummiest) etc., but if anything goes wrong, ANYTHING AT ALL, the client expects you to eat it.  It is a very difficult profession to make money in.

Not knowing anything about your project, I can only speculate, but I bet he just "assumed" it would be ok to overlay the tile, and that the two of you hadn't actually agreed to the method, at least not in writing?  And now that he has made you unhappy, it's easier for him just to walk away rather than rip it out, replace it, etc..since that would guarantee him to lose money.  Please tell me that you haven't paid him the entire cost yet, since the work wasn't complete, right?   If not, let this be a lesson.  In the work I've done as a general contractor, I only pay subs for materials in advance, I don't pay them a dime for labor until I am happy with the work, unless it's a long project, in which case I will pay in draws as a percentage of completion.  BTW I don't work as a general contractor at all anymore and never will again.  It was a frustrating experience. []

Both the original quote and the signed contract I have contain a line item for removing the floor tile. Laying the new tile over the old tile was never mentioned. Had it been I would not have approved. Frankly it looks like ****.

The contractor was paid. Due to the fact I could not get off work my Dad was hanging out in the house while he did the work. When my Dad saw that he was putting the new tile over the top of the old he questioned the contractor about it. At that point the contractor said "I discussed this with your son and this is the way he wanted to do it." Not true at all, but my Dad took him at his word.

When the work was complete my Dad gave him the check I had left for him.It was not until I got home that I found out what had happened. When I did I called the contractor and let him know I was unhappy. He said "I will make it right." After than I never heard from him. I left multiple messages on his cell phone and home answering machine. He never responded. That is when I sent the certified letter demanding a refund.

Well it sounds like you have a pretty strpng case, though I wonder if in the eyes of the law, paying him constitutes approval?  I do know a good tile guy if you're looking for a new one.  He did the backsplash in my kitchen, did it on time, for the price we agreed upon, and got it done faster than he said he would.

[NellieBly]

Is it common to pay someone before work like tiling is complete? It seems that once the work is done to your satisfaction, then they get paid. I can see paying a deposit or something up front, but why would you pay someone in full without the services being rendered in full?

[Rowdy]

I would have stopped payment on that check immediately when I found that out.

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by cannon_fodder

Citizen:

Is there an organization that registers 'qualified' contractors?   If not, perhaps such an organization should be formed as I would greatly appreciate their services.  IMHO, when the government gets involved things may improve in some areas but then we will see higher prices and complaining from contractors about the delays, expense, and extra paper work.

Government is rarely the answer.

Yeah, they are called Union contractors. The moral of this story is you get what you pay for, next time think twice before you accept that lowest bid.

[cannon_fodder]

American cars are union made and were expensive and crappy for years.  (last car I bought was American)

The major airlines are unionized and are always rated poor for service quality, comfort, and reliability. (I fly Northwest mostly)

Public schools are unionized and many people feel they do a poor job at educating the country. (my wife is a teacher)

High Life is proudly union mane in the USA, but still sucks. (I drink Pabst when I need cheap beer)

I worked for John Deere, a strong UAW (AFL-CIO) operation and currently work closely with the Operating Engineers.  I know that the union can provide quality workers and a quality product.  But just by virtue of being affiliated with the union (worker or company) it doesn't necessarily mean the product is of high quality.  

Perhaps, with contractors the quality of a union shop would be somewhat assured in that they have someone to answer to.  Unions have figured out that they need to protect their reputation in order to sell their premium branded product.  The whole union situation is going to get very interesting when the 50 year olds start to retire.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by TulsaMINI

www.angieslist.com is a start:

quote: About Angie's List

A word-of-mouth network for consumers Angie's List is a growing collection of homeowners' real-life
experiences with local service companies. The people who join Angie's List are like you — looking for a way to find trustworthy companies that perform high-quality work.

TM- name coincidence, or do you have something to do with Angie's list? []