Riverside Shooting

[sportyart]

quote:Area man is shot dead along Riverside Drive

By JEFF BILLINGTON World Staff Writer
6/11/2007

An area man was shot and killed Sunday afternoon after an apparent road rage incident in Tulsa's 30th homicide investigation this year, police said.

The incident occurred near an area of River Parks where dozens of people were dining in a restaurant or walking in the park.

It followed another, unrelated shooting earlier Sunday in which a man was shot at least 14 times. He remains hospitalized in critical condition.

Sunday's death put the city on pace with 56 killings in 2006.

In the fatal shooting near River Parks, Dale Allen Turney, 48, of Sand Springs, died Sunday afternoon after he was shot once in the chest, police said.

The man who reportedly fired a gun, Kenneth Ray Gumm, 67, of Tulsa, was questioned by police and released.

Police said the case will be turned over to the Tulsa County District Attorney's Office, which will determine what, if any, charges could be filed.

Capt. Steve Bayles said the two were driving on Riverside Drive in separate vehicles about 4 p.m. when an altercation between them apparently took place. The two men then drove into a parking lot at 1900 Riverside Drive and exited their vehicles, where the altercation continued, Bayles said.

Gumm reportedly pulled a gun and shot Turney once in the chest, police said. Turney was pronounced dead at the scene.

Johnny Nguyen, an employee at the River's Edge Restaurant, 1924 Riverside Drive, said he didn't see the altercation but heard the gunshot.

"I heard a gun go off, and then the park patrol (officer) came by. I told him where it came from and then I saw this guy laying on the ground facedown," Nguyen said.

After Turney was shot at point-blank range, Gumm surrendered the gun to park patrol officers, Bayles said. Gumm was then taken in for questioning by Tulsa police.

Bayles said the two men apparently didn't know each other, and police were investigating what caused the incident.

"A number of people were in the park at the time of the incident, and we're interviewing three to four people who witnessed the shooting," Bayles said. "As far as the road rage, we're still determining just what happened."

Linda Collier, a friend of Turney's who was at the scene, said he and another friend, Craig Geltz, had gone to a bar and Geltz asked Turney to be his designated driver. Turney pulled into the park area on Riverside Drive after Geltz had fallen asleep, and that's when the shooting occurred, she said.

"As far as we all know, it was not anyone that Craig knew or Dale ever knew," she said.

While police were attempting to interview witnesses and emergency personnel were administering CPR to Turney, another friend of Turney's, Donald James Vanorden, 48, became distraught and had to be pulled away from the scene.

Vanorden was subsequently arrested and booked into the Tulsa Jail on complaints of public intoxication and obstructing or resisting an officer.

Earlier shooting: In an unrelated incident, a 26-year-old man was shot several times early Sunday in northern Tulsa, police said.

Sgt. Butch Kennemer said Juan Davis was shot at least 14 times shortly after 3 a.m. Sunday in the 200 block of East 53rd Street North.

Kennemer said details were still sketchy, but police were searching for two men who left the scene in a late-model white sport utility vehicle, possibly a GMC.

Davis was taken to St. John Medical Center, where he was listed in critical condition, EMSA's spokeswoman Tina Wells said.

Kennemer said police were continuing to investigate a possible motive and description of the suspects.

At this time last year, Tulsa's homicide count was also at 30. Last year ended with 56 homicides, compared with 64 in 2005. The record for homicides in Tulsa is 69, set in 2003.

Am I missing something, or pulling a brain bone and can't remember, but don't we normally lock people up for shooting someone?

[brunoflipper]

turns ken may not be all that nice a guy and a ****ty driver...
http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/GetCaseInformation.asp?submitted=true&viewtype=caseGeneral&casemasterID=65611&db=Tulsa
http://www.oscn.net/applications/ocisweb/GetCaseInformation.asp?submitted=true&viewtype=caseGeneral&casemasterID=560402&db=Tulsa

[Breadburner]

Could be a clear cut case of self-defense.....


According to witnesses on the scene thats exactly what happened....The deceased had blocked the shooter in his parking space and when he exited his vehicle began shoving him as the shooter walked backwards he was then shot......

[TheArtist]

I find it unlikely that Turney just randomly picked someone off the road to follow, block, and then get out of his car to threaten.  Most likely Gumm did something to cause Turney to go into a rage.  

Adding to it that Gumm has a record of not being the "best driver" etc. It could have been that Gumm "threatened" and confronted Turney first while on the road.

http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=129207
 
I also think it unlikely that Gumm didn't know he was being followed.

However, if someone were to confront and threaten my life I would shoot them first and ask questions later.  However... if someone were to threaten your life on the road with their vehicle,(a vehicle is just as much a deadly weapon as a gun is) is blocking them in and threatening them worse than shooting someone?

But one also has to ask what kind of society we will have if people who choose to be bullies or drive recklessly on the road, when confronted can shoot you and then say they were doing it in self-defense.  Then go back to driving recklessly putting other peoples lives in danger. I have been bullied around on the road by people who drive like a-holes and have many a time wished I could give them a piece of my mind. Guess if I were to actually ever get into an altercation with them I should be the one to shoot and then all I would have to say is, it was self defense, they threatened my life.

[Breadburner]

Turney forced the issue....He could have kept driving or called the police.....

[South_Tulsan]

Getting out of your vehicle to fight a complete stranger is one of the dumbest moves anyone can make, as the victim in this shooting obviously learned the hard way.

[AngieB]

Not to defend the shooter, but those two court records linked above are from '92 and '93. Hard to judge somebody on things that happened 14 - 15 years ago.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

I find it unlikely that Turney just randomly picked someone off the road to follow, block, and then get out of his car to threaten.  Most likely Gumm did something to cause Turney to go into a rage.  

Adding to it that Gumm has a record of not being the "best driver" etc. It could have been that Gumm "threatened" and confronted Turney first while on the road.

http://www.kotv.com/news/local/story/?id=129207
 
I also think it unlikely that Gumm didn't know he was being followed.

However, if someone were to confront and threaten my life I would shoot them first and ask questions later.  However... if someone were to threaten your life on the road with their vehicle,(a vehicle is just as much a deadly weapon as a gun is) is blocking them in and threatening them worse than shooting someone?

But one also has to ask what kind of society we will have if people who choose to be bullies or drive recklessly on the road, when confronted can shoot you and then say they were doing it in self-defense.  Then go back to driving recklessly putting other peoples lives in danger. I have been bullied around on the road by people who drive like a-holes and have many a time wished I could give them a piece of my mind. Guess if I were to actually ever get into an altercation with them I should be the one to shoot and then all I would have to say is, it was self defense, they threatened my life.

You don't have to do anything wrong to set these people off.

Less than 30 minutes ago on 71st I'm driving to work in the middle lane of the three eastbound lanes near Riverside at or even below the speed limit. A black Hummer pick-up turns right onto 71st and just comes right over onto me in traffic, I have to swerve out of his way and I honk. He literally leans out of the window to flip me off and tries to stare ME down. He looked like he wanted to shoot me for the offense of being in his way and honking so he wouldn't run me into another car.

[Conan71]

Gee whiz Swake, give the Hummer driver a break.  He DID become the owner of the road when he bought that Hummer.

/sarc off

[cannon_fodder]

I was commuting home down Harvard where it goes under the BA and someone pulled up along side me and started shooting into my car (about 3 months ago I guess).  I hadn't flipped anyone off or short braked or anything else that should have set someone off and I had never seen that person before (nor would I associate with someone with a hatch back with a 'make my car louder' tailpipe).

The cop asked me if I might have cut someone off... it was 5:30 in midtown and I was driving.  There is a good chance that someone could have perceived that I cut them off, or that I did not let them in, or whatever.

Funny thing is, I had an 8mm Mauser Rifle in my trunk, I should have followed him onto the BA and got within 1000 meters and shot the little bastard in the back of the head.  Given that it was immediately following the act I could claim I was in an altered state and plead to manslaughter - and society would be that much better off.

But in the really real world, there was nothing I could do (I am not in the habit of shooting at people) at the time nor to prevent such a thing in the future.  I drive the same road every day and just have to hope no one else sees fit to try and shoot me to death.

[Conan71]

What did they shoot your car with?

I'm beginning to see more merit to getting my CCP and start keeping a piece in my truck.

[RecycleMichael]

Traffic causes conflict.

Guns resolve conflict?

[NellieBly]

Apparently so. I can not believe they didn't arrest the shooter. It was broad daylight, tons of witnesses and he killed someone because he got shoved??? He was afraid he would have a heart attack trying to shove him back? Walk away dude.

This is crazy.

[billintulsa]

Can't we all just get along?

[cannon_fodder]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

What did they shoot your car with?

It was a silver automatic pistol with a black grip.  Either a 9mm or .40 caliber.  He even shot out the back window of a car heading north on  Harvard - oops.  At least "ganstas" never learn how to shoot.
---
I'm reserving judgment on this killing because I have not heard all sides of the story.  If man A is a jerk (driving or otherwise) and pulls over with person B, then person A punches person B does that give rise to a self defense homicide?  

I feel like I'm in law school again!