City Hall Consolidation (purchase of One Technolog

[Wrinkle]

You left out the part about the conflict of interest in the original study by Staubach's company (who stands to gain on the City sale).

This deal is begining to smolder.

Besides being an inapropriate facility for City Government, the City becomes a landlord who's own tenancy is determined by their ability to rent space to others. I go back to my original comment about maintenance. Public commercial lease markets demand much more in this respect than the City has demonstrated its' capable of doing. (i.e., existing facilities in need of $24M in 'deferred' maintenance). They will not survive in a competative marketplace in their current posture.

Bad deal all around.

[Wrinkle]

Oh, did I mention what a HOT real estate market downtown Tulsa is these days?

[patric]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle

Oh, did I mention what a HOT real estate market downtown Tulsa is these days?

"(DOWNTOWN TULSA, Okla.) June 25 - The possible move of Tulsa's city hall now appears to be far from a slam dunk.

After a special weekend meeting, several city councilors have new questions about whether the move is really necessary.

Tulsa’s Mayor Kathy Taylor says the move is necessary because it would make room for a new downtown hotel."
http://www.fox23.com/news/local/story.aspx?content_id=dc92ed10-ab88-45e3-a799-7215c7f106c2

I thought that's why the Towerview was bulldozed?  Whack-a-Mole, anybody?

[TheArtist]

What happened to the efficiencies of having more of the city employees together in one building?  I remember how hard it was just to get that little mural approved and such that I did. Meeting after meeting, getting everyone together in one building, kept running into the problem of different people going to this building or that to other meetings, to get papers signed, things approved,.... was the most inefficient stupid way to do things I had ever seen.  I got tired of going from place to place to place. Permits in this building, a meeting with the mayor in that building,getting the contract written up in yet another, getting everyone together, was an incredible waste of time (aka money). Thats not the way it should be. Not to mention a secretary and security at each and every lobby and bulding, you could probably eliminate a number of redundant jobs, not to mention redundant meeting rooms lol.

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

What happened to the efficiencies of having more of the city employees together in one building?  I remember how hard it was just to get that little mural approved and such that I did. Meeting after meeting, getting everyone together in one building, kept running into the problem of different people going to this building or that to other meetings, to get papers signed, things approved,.... was the most inefficient stupid way to do things I had ever seen.  I got tired of going from place to place to place. Permits in this building, a meeting with the mayor in that building,getting the contract written up in yet another, getting everyone together, was an incredible waste of time (aka money). Thats not the way it should be. Not to mention a secretary and security at each and every lobby and bulding, you could probably eliminate a number of redundant jobs, not to mention redundant meeting rooms lol.

I don't think anyone's suggesting the current City Hall is acceptable in it's current form. Just that abandoning it and the Civic Center would be a mistake, especially with this deal on One Tech which creates more problems than it solves.

Has anyone notice, too, that no hotel developer has yet shown an interest in the Civic Center site? Don't you think they'd be parading that around if they had one?

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

What happened to the efficiencies of having more of the city employees together in one building?  I remember how hard it was just to get that little mural approved and such that I did. Meeting after meeting, getting everyone together in one building, kept running into the problem of different people going to this building or that to other meetings, to get papers signed, things approved,.... was the most inefficient stupid way to do things I had ever seen.  I got tired of going from place to place to place. Permits in this building, a meeting with the mayor in that building,getting the contract written up in yet another, getting everyone together, was an incredible waste of time (aka money). Thats not the way it should be. Not to mention a secretary and security at each and every lobby and bulding, you could probably eliminate a number of redundant jobs, not to mention redundant meeting rooms lol.

Those cost efficiencies were all calculated in the Staubach report that concluded (falsely) that the operating costs of the new arrangement would be lower than the operating costs in the current arrangement.  (I say falsely because they actually compared operating costs in the new arrangement with operating costs + deferred maintenance of the current arrangement, and totally ignored the capital and relocation costs required for the new arrangement).  PLUS, of course, we now also know that the whole "study" is tainted by Staubach's having a financial interest in the outcome.

In short, this whole thing is smelling worse and worse.  Time to put it out of its misery.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle



Has anyone notice, too, that no hotel developer has yet shown an interest in the Civic Center site? Don't you think they'd be parading that around if they had one?

Thank you.  I was beginning to think I was the only one noticing that.  There are two alternative explanations:

(1) There is a similar level of interest as there was in the TowerView block back when we were repeatedly told there was a huge amount of interest and we would have multiple developers clamoring for the opportunity to develop that site (and we ended up with one developer with zero track record and ridiculous demands).  (That is to say there is ZERO legitimate interest from hotel developers)
(2) They've already done a back-room deal with some of the local old-money folks to develop a hotel on the site.  Anyone remember Great Plains Airlines?

[Wrinkle]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by Wrinkle



Has anyone notice, too, that no hotel developer has yet shown an interest in the Civic Center site? Don't you think they'd be parading that around if they had one?

Thank you.  I was beginning to think I was the only one noticing that.  There are two alternative explanations:

(1) There is a similar level of interest as there was in the TowerView block back when we were repeatedly told there was a huge amount of interest and we would have multiple developers clamoring for the opportunity to develop that site (and we ended up with one developer with zero track record and ridiculous demands).  (That is to say there is ZERO legitimate interest from hotel developers)
(2) They've already done a back-room deal with some of the local old-money folks to develop a hotel on the site.  Anyone remember Great Plains Airlines?

I'm pretty consistantly feeling there's a Master Plan I haven't seen.

Oh, it's not published, you say?

Every step of the process on everything around here is more about control than anything. That, and the flow of cash around the inner circle.

If anyone was really looking out for us, why on Earth would they promote a "No-Bid" Bond on the One Tech deal?  Bidding would only give us the best deal possible. But no, it has to be someone of their choosing. Keep the money local. They see that as a 'community benefit'.

Doesn't matter, I guess, since I can't see this deal actually happening at this point.

[Wrinkle]

Cart prior to horsey?

http://www.cityoftulsa.org/Agendas/agendax.asp?FN=0013448A&num=1

Also, was that $67 Million, or $76 Million Kitty's been talkin' about?

Probably one of those 'scriveners' errors.

[Oil Capital]

Latest facts to ooze out about Kathy's glass palace


Wow,  Can this thing get any smellier?  Day by day it seems more and more facts ooze out that are contrary to what Kathy would have us believe.  Today we discover that, rather than costing $67 million to do the move, it will really be something more like $76 million.  Well, that includes the costs of selling the bonds and the costs of demolishing "certain other city-owned facilities".   Hmmmmm.... like, maybe the current city hall??? (Never mind that we were told the mythical hotel developer would be paying for that demolition.)

[YoungTulsan]

Instead of spending money tearing stuff down, the city should just hand over all unwanted land to QuikTrip and let them deal with it  They're probably better suited to find fitting uses for all of these lands and brokering the business deals anyways. (yes joking)

But seriously, when I was originally excited about this City Hall consolidation, I figured the city was getting an even better bargain basement deal than they are on the tech building.  But that main thing I've soured on is the valid points being made about this facility not being an easily accessible friendly to the public place of meeting.  The current city hall is not either, but if you're already dead set on spending $70+ Million, there are other things that could be looked at that would have a better chance in moving our city forward.

Maybe this deal will fail, and it will be another one of those "Channels" deals that at least got us TALKING about solving the problem of our crummy city government setup as it stands.

Does anyone thing a new City Hall could be constructed for similar funds?  Any other properties around town that might be better than the Borg Cube to buy and convert?

[Oil Capital]

I don't really understand all the chatter about the current city hall being inaccessible.  It's really quite easy to get to, quite easy to park near, and quite easy to walk into.  It's a little hard to imagine how it could be easier, unless you move it completely out of downtown somewhere, (which would be a horrible idea).

Yes, it's run-down and needs some sprucing up.  But do the $24 million of deferred maintenance already and then keep up on the maintenance.  Really should not be that difficult.

[YoungTulsan]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

I don't really understand all the chatter about the current city hall being inaccessible.  It's really quite easy to get to, quite easy to park near, and quite easy to walk into.  It's a little hard to imagine how it could be easier, unless you move it completely out of downtown somewhere, (which would be a horrible idea).

Yes, it's run-down and needs some sprucing up.  But do the $24 million of deferred maintenance already and then keep up on the maintenance.  Really should not be that difficult.

The current city hall being a sh**hole is what makes it uninviting  But yes, spending $70 million to move to a building that is less accessible is one of the problems I was concerned with.  

Does anyone know what all the "deferred maintainance" would be?  New roofs and mold removal?  Anything to transform it from a concrete labyrinth?  How neglected are we talking here...  Do they need running water and that there internet thingy?

[Wrinkle]

For $76M, you could knock it back to the structural frame and start again.

But, a new plaza plan would be appropriate, for sure, along with building remodel.

Next, how to pay for it?

For that matter, how was Kitty going to pay back $76M on One Tech? It didn't add up either.

[Hometown]

I suggested the city, state and feds consolidate operations downtown to become anchor tenants for downtown a while back.  I thought Taylor's plan would be a step in that direction.  But it appears that the only city employees moving into downtown would be coming from a West Tulsa facility and their number is not significant.  Now I can't find any silver lining in Taylor's proposal.  It's just bad all the way around.

It was one thing to watch Tulsa bungle one thing after another from a distance.  But to actually be here while a major mistake is in progress is painful.  Tulsa's dumb luck is going to run out.  Maybe already has.