River Plan- Public Infrastructure

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by bokworker

"Clever parsing"? What, you think I am attorney? I don't know how to say it any other way than to tell you that neither I nor any of my co-workers were put in a position to have to answer to management of the bank as to where we stood on the issue or what we would or would not do to support the initiative. Besides, do you really think that we would have soe sort of "sign police" drive around and check such a thing? You are in the wrong woods to dropping this sort of s**t friendly Bear....

I repeat:  A Vote YES sign was placed in every employees yard that resided in Tulsa County.  

Not GIVEN to the employee.  

Employees could "opt-out" by contacting the HR department.

That is a true statement.

I didn't ask or even care how you personally felt about Vision 2025 or anything else.

A sign was put in bank employees yards that resided within Tulsa County.

Correct?

[bokworker]

FB, do you really think it plausible that someone from BOk is going to drive to the residence of every employee that resides in Tulsa county to place a sign in their front yard? And then somehow police whether or not the sign was left up or just put in the garage, or trash, without a call to our HR department. Or do you eblieve that we have an internal gestapo that secretly informs HR of those that do not follow the directives of the "ruling party"?

Again, this action did NOT happen to me or any of my coworkers or direct reports. And as a member of management I was NEVER asked to make any statement as to the stance of the organization with an implied or real threat as to what said non-support could mean to their future with the organization.

Was it clear from public articles that the bank felt the initiative was good for Tulsa? Yes. (and we certainly were not alone). Was there any attempt to force that opinion on any individual. NO!!!

I cannot "parse" it any other way.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear
unwarranted personal attacks contrary to the Rules of Deportment of this Forum.....

Personal attacks?

Because I don't just swallow what you are selling? That's a personal attack?

Keep it coming...

Swake:  

You are a serially violater of the Forum Moderator Rules of Deportment, who remains unchastised or unrepetent, and curiously uncensored by the Forum Moderators.

It's obvious that you are a coarse, uncouth individual, referring to my comment, and these are YOUR EXACT WORDS above, to "quit talking out your donkey", referring to alleged oral communications emanating from MY posterior.

That is your essential coarseness, and may be merely a clever ploy to elicit an intemperate response, and thus allow the pretext of a forum thread being edited or blocked by the Forum Moderators.  

It is an essential forum detractor tactic to block the discussion of public policy of those with whom they disagree.

If you can't recognize it, try and move into the Lightness of Being more often.

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

FACT??

Apparently not.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by bokworker

FB, do you really think it plausible that someone from BOk is going to drive to the residence of every employee that resides in Tulsa county to place a sign in their front yard? And then somehow police whether or not the sign was left up or just put in the garage, or trash, without a call to our HR department. Or do you eblieve that we have an internal gestapo that secretly informs HR of those that do not follow the directives of the "ruling party"?

Again, this action did NOT happen to me or any of my coworkers or direct reports. And as a member of management I was NEVER asked to make any statement as to the stance of the organization with an implied or real threat as to what said non-support could mean to their future with the organization.

Was it clear from public articles that the bank felt the initiative was good for Tulsa? Yes. (and we certainly were not alone). Was there any attempt to force that opinion on any individual. NO!!!

I cannot "parse" it any other way.

You are cleverly slanting, twisting, and adding non-atributed comments to my simple statement:

Fact:  The Vote Yes for Vision 2025 signs WERE placed in all bank employee residential yards in Tulsa County.

I did not say the BANK placed them there.  I also did NOT say that the bank used any Sign GESTAPO to monitor whether the sign remained in the yard, nor did I say that the bank monitored the employee's beliefs or behaviors outside of work in ANY way.

I simply stated what I stated:  

The Vote Yes for Vision 2025 signs WERE placed in all bank employee residential yards in Tulsa County.

Employees could "opt-out" by contacting the HR department.  Intimidation to the EMPLOYEE was implicit.

The signs were nonetheless placed in every yard as I indicated at least five times in this forum.

And, you have NOT refuted this simple fact.

Nor, am I surprised that you have serially dissembled my simple statement of FACT.

You are a loyal bank employee, trying desparately to defend the indefensible because of the possible negative impact on the bank's image were it confirmed otherwise.

I hereby swear and affirm:

I know what I know.  

I have stated the matter factually.

It happened the way I recited.

[TheArtist]

All I can say is that if my tax money is going to both make great river facilities and BOK and others lots of money.... I am going to buy their stock. [8D] I will have great river facilities and be rich. Thanks for the sure deal stock tips Friendly Bear. []

[bokworker]

I know for a FACT that signs were not placed in every employees yard in Tulsa county... and you insinuated that it was the bank that did it. If not, then why the heck would we have to "opt-out" by calling HR? You are giving me way too much credit as to being able to "cleverly" word my response FB.... The BANK in no way used any type of coersion, implied or real, to force participation in the support of the Vision 2025 vote. Clear enough?

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

I did not say the BANK placed them there.

Yes, you did.

quote:...the top management of the bank directed that a Vote YES sign be INVOLUNTARILY placed in the residential yard of every bank employee residing in Tulsa County.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by bokworker

I know for a FACT that signs were not placed in every employees yard in Tulsa county... and you insinuated that it was the bank that did it. If not, then why the heck would we have to "opt-out" by calling HR? You are giving me way too much credit as to being able to "cleverly" word my response FB.... The BANK in no way used any type of coersion, implied or real, to force participation in the support of the Vision 2025 vote. Clear enough?

Your half-truths are more than revealing.  Be more careful.

Employees who "opted-out" did not have signs placed in their yards.

The HR department was the clearing house for the sign placement, because they possessed every employee address.

Outside parties engaged by the Vote Yes Cabal provided the signs, and provided the sign placement.

Bank employee addresses residing in Tulsa County were supplied.

And, due to the confidentiality of bank personnel records, they apparently did NOT provide the employee names to the outside parties who planted the signs.  Just an address.

Employees were permitted to contact HR to "opt-out".  

The implicit intimidation is obvious to anyone who works for a living.

Sorry, I have to leave for awhile to attend Commissioner Perry's Kaiser River Tax Forum.

[swake]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by swake

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear
unwarranted personal attacks contrary to the Rules of Deportment of this Forum.....

Personal attacks?

Because I don't just swallow what you are selling? That's a personal attack?

Keep it coming...

Swake:  

You are a serially violater of the Forum Moderator Rules of Deportment, who remains unchastised or unrepetent, and curiously uncensored by the Forum Moderators.

It's obvious that you are a coarse, uncouth individual, referring to my comment, and these are YOUR EXACT WORDS above, to "quit talking out your donkey", referring to alleged oral communications emanating from MY posterior.

That is your essential coarseness, and may be merely a clever ploy to elicit an intemperate response, and thus allow the pretext of a forum thread being edited or blocked by the Forum Moderators.  

It is an essential forum detractor tactic to block the discussion of public policy of those with whom they disagree.

If you can't recognize it, try and move into the Lightness of Being more often.

If the most recent posts in this very thread do anything, they prove you most certainly are "talking out your donkey".

It's not an insult, just a difficult reality for you. I'm not asking you to be quiet, I'm asking you to deal in facts and not false accusations. Take that as an attack if you want to, that's up to you, in the real world it's just acting like an adult.

[Chicken Little]

BOK,

He didn't "insinuate"...he said it.  And then, on the same page, he argued that he didn't say it.  And then, on the same page, he accused you of parsing and telling half-truths.  That's ironic, but perhaps no moreso than his calling this badgering a "public policy discussion".

[bokworker]

FB, let's just agree that we have a very different outlook on this issue. If there were employees of BOk that you know that felt intimidated then so be it. I did not, nor did anybody I work with. There are issues and organizations that BOk supports and asks for participation from its' employees (like the United Way) but there is never in any way a message of forced compliance. As a publically traded corporation, owned by one of the richest, and smartest I might add, men in America, it defies belief that you could feel that BOk would pursue a policy that flies in the face of the law. BOk is not a privately held organinization but one that answers to a multiple of regulatory authorities and any policy, real or implied, of the sort you are espousing would be grounds for a very expensive lawsuit.

I believe I have made myself abundantly clear and in no way tried to use evasive language or half-truths to refute you statement of "fact" and inuendo. If anyone has been "parsing" words and cleverly wording their posts, it is you. You clearly stated that the bank was responsible for the placing of the signs, not an organization that got the addresses of the employees residing in Tulsa county from the bank.

In any event, I think I have been an unwitting party to making a mountain out of a molehill. You "know" what you know, I know what I know.  

[CoffeeBean]

*yawn*

[Friendly Bear]

Well, well, well, so a small kernel of truth finally emerges from the ardent Concealer.

Bank management saw to it that all employees residing in Tulsa County had a 'Vote Yes sign place in their residential yard.  They PROVIDED the addresses to the Vision 2025 leg men.

The Vote Yes for Vision 2025 signs WERE placed in all bank employee residential yards in Tulsa County as a result.

Employees could theoretically "opt-out" by contacting the HR department. Intimidation to the EMPLOYEE was implicit.

When it later decided which employees are "Team Players", Opt-Out employees certainly would not seem to quality as Team Players.

So, a publically held corporation provides the addresses of all bank employees residing in Tulsa County to a Third Party for the purposes of promoting a new Sales Tax that the publically held corporation expects to financially significantly gain from the self-same bond underwriting.

Addresses are provided to the
Tax Vampires (Except for those brave, foolish, or reckless employees who OPT-OUT of their involuntary use of their yard for a Vote YES Yardsign by the Vision 2025 Tax Vampires).  

Their names are duly noted by the HR department, and the addresses are deleted from the list provided to the external organization.

Breaking any laws, there?   Anything slightly ethically amiss there at your wonderful bank?
I said nothing about bank policy.  I said nothing about laws broken.  

Of course not.  There is no governing legal authority in the Banana Republic of Tulsa!

Our District Attorney, U.S. Attorney, District and Federal Judges are carefully groomed, financed, promoted and selected by the ruling Oligarchy.

Yes, I remember fondly how dear District Judge Jane Wiseman took all of 5 minutes to issue her UNWRITTEN ruling that the Log-rolled Vision 2025 Ballot was in fact NOT a log-rolled ballot.
After 8 years earlier ruling that the same type of log-rolling had been foisted on the Jail-Tax Ballot.

And her Reward for remarkable service to the Ruling Oligarchy:  Promptly Appointed to the State Court of Appeals.

I am also heartened when I read that recently appointed Federal Judge Frizzell is a "dear" friend of Senator Jim Inhofe.  Gives me an especially warm feeling knowing they are buds.

Keep careful to guard your employer's reputatation.

When its finally gone, it will be hard to recover.

[rwarn17588]

Give it a rest, Bob. Nobody believes you, nor should they.