River Plan- Public Infrastructure

[swake]

Man, I just don't know that I have the energy for this today. I was up pretty late at the party and some of you, you know who you are, were just crazy last night.

If you missed it, too bad, it was HUGE and you should have been there. The Oligarchy had a big blowout for all the collaborators at the Tax Vampire Lodge. A little work did get done though, we gave awards out to all the best Cronies for 2006. A no-bid contract was given to all the award winners. Too sweet.

Be sure not to miss the big fall bash, the theme is going to be "taxpayers", everyone is supposed to dress up like a poor working class slob.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by swake

Man, I just don't know that I have the energy for this today. I was up pretty late at the party and some of you, you know who you are, were just crazy last night.

If you missed it, too bad, it was HUGE and you should have been there. The Oligarchy had a big blowout for all the collaborators at the Tax Vampire Lodge. A little work did get done though, we gave awards out to all the best Cronies for 2006. A no-bid contract was given to all the award winners. Too sweet.

Be sure not to miss the big fall bash, the theme is going to be "taxpayers", everyone is supposed to dress up like a poor working class slob.

Their next party is actually 7 p.m. Oct. 9.

The Kaiser River Tax Watch Party, at the Crowne Plaza or DoubleTree Downtown; alternate location Doubletree at Warren Place.  Reservations pending.

You'll LOVE being there.

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

BOK,

He didn't "insinuate"...he said it.  And then, on the same page, he argued that he didn't say it.  And then, on the same page, he accused you of parsing and telling half-truths.  That's ironic, but perhaps no moreso than his calling this badgering a "public policy discussion".

CL,

Read more carefully.  He neither "insinuated" nor said that the bank itself put out the yard signs.

BOK,

After all this, I can't help but notice that you have never actually addressed the core question.  Did BOK arrange for the placement of signs in all of its Tulsa County employees' yards (with an opt-out option available through BOK HR)?  It's really a simple yes/no question.  (And while I appreciate your attempts to assure us that absolutely nobody has ever felt coerced, I rather suspect that mind-reading thousands of employees is not among your talents (or anyone else's for that matter).)

[bokworker]

Oil Capital, as I recall the "incident" in question, there was an article posted on the banks' internal intranet informing employess about the Vision 2025 initiative and that the bank, as an entity, supported the initiative. The article stated that those employees that also supported the intitiative could ( note, it said COULD not WOULD) have a sign placed in their front yard to indicate their support. Those that did not want a sign or were not in support of the issue could "opt-out" by clicking the attached link and it was done. There was no effort in opting out besides a finger click. I will agree that I am not good at reading the minds of thousands of BOk employees any more than FB is. I can relate however that the so called "implicite coersion" was not felt by me or any of my co-workers. Is it possible that one or more employees felt uncomfortable in opting out? I suppose, but I did not.

Could the bank have worded the intranet article in a manner that you had to "opt-in" to get a sign put in your yard? I suppose but since I didn't feel like the bank was doing something that put my future with the organization at risk by "opting-out" I didn't give it a second thought. My angst with FB was that the banks actions were some sort of a conspiracy on the part of management to force the actions of its' employees to follow the company line. Nothing could be further from the truth.

[bokworker]

Also for FB's benefit, please note that I waited to post until my lucnh hour... whatever that is supposed to mean.

See you at the next party...

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by bokworker

Oil Capital, as I recall the "incident" in question, there was an article posted on the banks' internal intranet informing employess about the Vision 2025 initiative and that the bank, as an entity, supported the initiative. The article stated that those employees that also supported the intitiative could ( note, it said COULD not WOULD) have a sign placed in their front yard to indicate their support. Those that did not want a sign or were not in support of the issue could "opt-out" by clicking the attached link and it was done. There was no effort in opting out besides a finger click. I will agree that I am not good at reading the minds of thousands of BOk employees any more than FB is. I can relate however that the so called "implicite coersion" was not felt by me or any of my co-workers. Is it possible that one or more employees felt uncomfortable in opting out? I suppose, but I did not.

Could the bank have worded the intranet article in a manner that you had to "opt-in" to get a sign put in your yard? I suppose but since I didn't feel like the bank was doing something that put my future with the organization at risk by "opting-out" I didn't give it a second thought. My angst with FB was that the banks actions were some sort of a conspiracy on the part of management to force the actions of its' employees to follow the company line. Nothing could be further from the truth.

And, the Truth Shall Set You Free.......

Feeling better?

And, if those employees just THINKING about hitting that Opt-Out Button, were they thinking, one little click and I'll be free to look for employment elsewhere?

[bokworker]

Whatever FB... congrats.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

BOK,

He didn't "insinuate"...he said it.  And then, on the same page, he argued that he didn't say it.  And then, on the same page, he accused you of parsing and telling half-truths.  That's ironic, but perhaps no moreso than his calling this badgering a "public policy discussion".

CL,

Read more carefully.  He neither "insinuated" nor said that the bank itself put out the yard signs.

BOK,

After all this, I can't help but notice that you have never actually addressed the core question.  Did BOK arrange for the placement of signs in all of its Tulsa County employees' yards (with an opt-out option available through BOK HR)?  It's really a simple yes/no question.  (And while I appreciate your attempts to assure us that absolutely nobody has ever felt coerced, I rather suspect that mind-reading thousands of employees is not among your talents (or anyone else's for that matter).)

Oil Capitol:

Thanks for flying flak suppression for me!

But, I think you've just nominated yourself as the TulsaNow.org Forum's Metro Tulsa Echo-Chamber Public Enemy #1.  [B)]

Now I can retire from that distinction.

Back to Hibernation Mode?

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by bokworker

Whatever FB... congrats.

Sung to the tune of "Signs", by the Five Man Electrical Band:

Sign, sign, everywhere a sign.

Fail to click that button, you be GETTING the sign.

Vote Yes, Vision 2025 SIGH-UN!

[]

[Chicken Little]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

CL,

Read more carefully.  He neither "insinuated" nor said that the bank itself put out the yard signs.

OC,

Think more clearly.  What does "...the top management of the bank directed..." mean?  What exactly do you think bank means if not the management of the bank?  You see, the "bank itself" is a building, an inanimate object, and does not speak.

[waterboy]

OML. (On my lunch break). BOK, whether you felt any pressure or not the wording was unfortunate. I would have thought twice had I received the memo and quite likely have surmised the smart thing to do would be not to check the box and pull the sign on my own time if I disagreed.

Can we get back to more substantive discussion of infrastructure and financing?

[tjay88]

Why I think FB is quite wacko, I do agree that this was a bush league action by BOK.  I really think they should have not taken any action at all.  Although if they really felt like they needed to for whatever reason, then they should have made it an opt in program.  Not an opt out.  Another reason for me to avoid BOK.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by tjay88

Why I think FB is quite wacko, I do agree that this was a bush league action by BOK.  I really think they should have not taken any action at all.  Although if they really felt like they needed to for whatever reason, then they should have made it an opt in program.  Not an opt out.  Another reason for me to avoid BOK.

Thanks for your kind words of support.  

The Friendly Bear Fan Club continues to grow, and seeth.

And, the Truth Shall Set You Free, too.

If you could administer Truth Serum to the Vision 2025 political consultants, they would admit to advising the Tax Vampires that signs in REAL PEOPLE's residential yards meant a lot in a campaign.

They add AUTHENTICITY of support for a candidate or for a ballot issue like a new Tax.  

Much more authentic than Vote Yes signs in front of Metro Chamber of Commerce affiliated businesses, or the usual cast of crony contractor and sub-contractor financial contributers who hope to financially gain from the new Tax.

SIGNS IN YARDS appear to indicate "Grassroots" Support.

Well, in the case of the Banana Republic of Tulsa, the Grassroots support was actually as phony as Astro-Turf.

I'll be looking for the Opt-Out Ballot Button of the Kaiser River Tax, come October 9.

[8D]

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

CL,

Read more carefully.  He neither "insinuated" nor said that the bank itself put out the yard signs.

OC,

Think more clearly.  What does "...the top management of the bank directed..." mean?  What exactly do you think bank means if not the management of the bank?  You see, the "bank itself" is a building, an inanimate object, and does not speak.

Think more clearly indeed.   It really could not be much simpler, and it most clearly does not mean they directed the "bank" or the bank employees to run around town putting out yard signs.  It means they directed bank employees to give the employee addresses to the Vision 2025 team so that they could have THEIR people (volunteers, whatever, put out the yard signs).     Only those desperate to change the subject (and pile on a non-Koolaid drinker) could have read anything else into that sentence.

[Renaissance]

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

quote:Originally posted by Chicken Little

quote:Originally posted by Oil Capital

CL,

Read more carefully.  He neither "insinuated" nor said that the bank itself put out the yard signs.

OC,

Think more clearly.  What does "...the top management of the bank directed..." mean?  What exactly do you think bank means if not the management of the bank?  You see, the "bank itself" is a building, an inanimate object, and does not speak.

Think more clearly indeed.   It really could not be much simpler, and it most clearly does not mean they directed the "bank" or the bank employees to run around town putting out yard signs.  It means they directed bank employees to give the employee addresses to the Vision 2025 team so that they could have THEIR people (volunteers, whatever, put out the yard signs).     Only those desperate to change the subject (and pile on a non-Koolaid drinker) could have read anything else into that sentence.

Boy, I'm glad we're having such a productive discussion of river infrastructure, instead of letting a conspiracy troll bait this thread into some sort of flame-fest.  []