Good Bye Civic Center

[TheArtist]

Oh I certainly agree that we could lower the plaza, refurbish the buildings around it, make the street go through, remodel, repair and update the city hall and even add a new more useful entrance, lobby, and few more office spaces with a 3 or 4 story building around it to consolidate more city functions, do some landscaping, add some new fountains and artwork, etc. etc.

 But will that cost more or less than the moving option and how will that be paid for versus how moving would be paid for?  I would actually prefer doing all of that but my impression is that it will require even more money than moving. If we have this many people screaming that we may spend a bit more than we already are now, how much more would they scream if we will be spending the same amount as now plus all the new funds it would require to do all that remodeling, building and upkeep?

[Hometown]

Check out TulsaNow's home page.  We have a former president of TulsaNow endorsing the move.  I'm curious, was there a vote taken of TulsaNow members or does this just reflect the former president's point of view?

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Check out TulsaNow's home page.  We have a former president of TulsaNow endorsing the move.  I'm curious, was there a vote taken of TulsaNow members or does this just reflect the former president's point of view?

You're argument is making progress Hometown. At our lunch Tuesday I was surprised to see that a minority of us thought the move will actually take place. After its original momentum the case seems to be weakening. Maybe because John Erling has been pimping it on cable with Himelfarb. []

Perhaps if there were a competing plan or someone could/would pinpoint what the cost of re-habbing the plaza would be?

[Hometown]

To purchase we have to put up money right away.  

Staying in City Hall would require no immediate additional expenditures.  

According to TulsaWorld reports there is already $15M of the $27M needed to rehab City Hall budgeted, leaving $12M more to bring it up to speed.  You could continue to defer $12M in maintenance for now.  There is no deadline to restore the plaza other than people's patience.  There are various ways to finance restoring Civic Center and the surrounding buildings slowly, over time.

How do you calculate the value of intanglibles like the historic value (and potential economic value) of a mint condition 60s Modern Civic Center?  Marin County is famous for its Frank Lloyd Wright City Hall.  The esteem we have for Modern architecture will grow with time.  Tulsa has a lot of significant Modern architecture.  We are famous for our Art Deco.  Well, Modern Architecture is directly descended from Art Deco.  Can you see how preserving both might have value to Tulsa?  Something of value we already hold in our hands.  Already paid for.

The Feds and The State and The County have made enormous investments in their Civic Center facilities and they must think that the City of Tulsa is an unreliable partner.  By abandoning it's current City Hall Tulsa will put the whole Civic Center complex in jeopardy and force the Feds and State and County to scramble.

I hope that anyone who cares about Tulsa's history will say no to throwing away Civic Center.

We love you Mayor Taylor but you are wrong about this.

[inteller]

quote:Originally posted by recyclemichael

quote: I’m pro growth just not pro stupid.

I am just amateur stupid...how do you get paid for being stupid?

I could be all-pro...

you cant be pro stupid once you've gone pro smartass

[dbacks fan]

Just my opinion as a Tulsa native, that now lives in Phoenix and have seen and learned about the changes that cities go through over time, I think that it would be a shame to leave the CC Plaza area. This was the heart and soul of the city and the county for all of my life living in Tulsa. There is the architecture there that speaks of the growth of Tulsa in the 50's, 60's, and 70's. Yes there were ideas that did not work in downtown, and I have thoughts on what changed the landscape of downtown and most of Tulsa in the 70's and early 80's, but I'm not going into that here. To me, I think moving the seat of government is not a wise choice, and to those who don't care for the architecture of the buildings, have you lived in Tulsa long enough to have seen the loss of Art Deco and Frank Lloyd Wright and Post War Modern Design to understand that this is a loss of heritage? Everyone wants to reinvent things and a lot of them don't want to give credit to the past.

[dbacks fan]

I took this picture on a tour of Frank Lloyd Wright's Taliesin West. It is a picture showing the Price Tower in Bartlesville. It was intersting to people on the tour that this building exists in Oklahoma.



Before you say get rid of of a building, check out the history, and then decide.

[Hometown]

“There is the architecture there that speaks of the growth of Tulsa in the 50's, 60's, and 70's.” -- dbacks fan.  

Well, I guess you know I think dbacks fan has hit the nail on the head.

It looks to me like city has been making a concerted effort to get the area of downtown around the Arena all beautified before the opening of the Arena.  

I think that’s why we see the launch of the new effort to house the homeless.  And my guess is that’s why we have increased police patrols in the northwest quadrant of downtown.  Lord knows it’s been difficult driving through downtown recently because of all the roadwork being done to get ready for the opening of the Arena.

I honestly believe that Taylor and members of her inner circle see this move as a part of getting everything all purty for the big event.  And purty to this crowd means no disturbing low income people hanging around and everything all shiny and new.

There may also be a story behind the story with back room deals being made that we don’t know about.  The frantic tone of the proponents of the move makes me believe there is something else going on.

It’s touching that Tulsa is so unsophisticated that it’s getting itself worked into a frenzy for the opening of the Arena.  Well the opening of an architecturally significant building in Tulsa is a big event.  I just hope we don’t destroy our Civic Center in the process.

[Conan71]

You certainly don't think there are any bums staggering around out in front of Queen Kathy's fashionable home on Los Olas in Fort Lauderdale do you?

Why would anyone be surprized by all this?  I saw this coming as soon as she defeated McCorkle in the primary.  I suspect long-time friends of the Lobeck/Taylor household are getting greased on many of these deals.

[Hometown]

Some Tulsa World Headlines we might see between now and the City Council vote on moving City Hall.  

FUTURE OF BASEBALL IN TULSA HINGES ON CITY HALL MOVE
Stadium must be built on civic center site

MUNICIPAL OPERATIONS GRIND TO A HALT
Mayor explains city employees seek refuge near water fountains to avoid exposure to mold

JESUS WANTS NEW CITY HALL
Hastily arranged group of City’s religious leaders declare it’s the Lord’s will

MAYOR THREATENS TO TAKE HER TOYS AND LEAVE
City council tells on her

THE FUTURE OF THE FAMILY DEPENDS ON MOVE TO NEW FACILITY
Opponents of City Hall move described as secret front for gay marriage organization

[waterboy]

Prescient? The first one is on the front page of this morning's World.

[TheArtist]

close....

FUTURE OF BASEBALL IN TULSA HINGES ON CITY HALL MOVE.  Stadium must be built on Hartford building site. [8D]

Is an interesting idea to throw in the mix along with "hotel space where the city hall is now". The city could sell the Hartford building site and some areas around it to the Global Development people so they could reconfigure what they were going to build. If the other group gets the Nordam property, would it then mean that both groups could essentially develop their plans?

[Oil Capital]

quote:Originally posted by Hometown

Some Tulsa World Headlines we might see between now and the City Council vote on moving City Hall.  

FUTURE OF BASEBALL IN TULSA HINGES ON CITY HALL MOVE
Stadium must be built on civic center site

MUNICIPAL OPERATIONS GRIND TO A HALT
Mayor explains city employees seek refuge near water fountains to avoid exposure to mold

JESUS WANTS NEW CITY HALL
Hastily arranged group of City’s religious leaders declare it’s the Lord’s will

MAYOR THREATENS TO TAKE HER TOYS AND LEAVE
City council tells on her

THE FUTURE OF THE FAMILY DEPENDS ON MOVE TO NEW FACILITY
Opponents of City Hall move described as secret front for gay marriage organization

Excellent Post.  LOL  (except the truth is actually pretty sad)

[dbacks fan]

I thought you guys were joking until I read the article. Next to the BOk Center? That would fit where the Civic Center is now. If they do that, can I have the prism fixtures hanging from the ceiling between the two halves of the building?

[Hometown]

Well it helps me to be able to laugh a little about the shake down that is in progress.

SOCIAL SECURITY CHECKS CANNOT BE PROCESSED
City’s seniors told monthly benefit depends on purchase of new city hall

TULSA CERTAIN TO GO BANKRUPT
Deferred maintenance totaling $12M threatens to bring down once proud Oil Capital

The day after the City Council Vote:

MAYOR HAS MAJOR BAD HAIR DAY
Considers housing city operations in west wing of her mid-town palace

Anyway folks I’m getting close to the “give it up to God” phase.  If anyone has an October surprise that will keep City Hall in its current locale, now is the time to let it rip.

I’m going to email my city council representative and say a prayer.

Dear God, Please don’t let Tulsa throw away any more of her history.  I’ve watched my hometown trash one historic asset after another.  Please God, for the sake of future generations of Tulsans, save our Civic Center.