Happy day after "No Amnesty" day!

[Lister]

Poor Teddy, Poor King George.. Couldn't ramrod their perception of reality down our throats. It's just sad.. [^]

[tim huntzinger]

Poor 'mercans, they be too stoopid to realize that that the North American Union is a reality, that implementation is just a matter of code enforcement.

[iplaw]

For once, no matter what the outcome was yesterday it was a great example of democracy in action.  The reason this bill was defeated was because the people of America made their voice heard.  The switchboards in DC were swamped yesterday, and the politicians actually listened to their constituents yesterday and represented them for once instead of themselves.  Quite an amazing day regardless of the outcome.

[tulsacyclist]

quote:Originally posted by iplaw

For once, no matter what the outcome was yesterday it was a great example of democracy in action.  The reason this bill was defeated was because the people of America made their voice heard.  The switchboards in DC were swamped yesterday, and the politicians actually listened to their constituents yesterday and represented them for once instead of themselves.  Quite an amazing day regardless of the outcome.

+1

I agree.

[Conan71]

Lister, good photo.  I can't figure out if Kennedy just crapped his pants or Bush had and Teddy was reacting.

This is good news.  However, I still don't think these trolls in Washington get it.  Talk of the Fairness Doctrine keeps getting louder and louder as Senators think talk radio is wielding too much influence.

I think on this issue, talk radio has been listening better to what the citizens want than our leaders have been.

Instant citizenship is no cure for the immigration problem.

[MichaelC]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Instant citizenship is no cure for the immigration problem.

There be no "cure".  It's technically impossible and morally reprehensible to permanently export 12+ million illegals.  Bush's "plan" is pragmatic.  It doesn't pretend that exporting these people can be done.  It offers documentation and legal residency under certain conditions.  While also offering to secure the borders.

What Bush needs to do, is send down a border security bill that will close the borders ASAP. However, "pragmatic" can also be political.  Bush is still wooing Hispanic voters, he's done it since he came into office.  Bush won't send it down, and he would likely veto it if it came up.  

Democrats get to watch on the sidelines.  Dems aren't going to go out of their way to help out Bush, but I'd suspect enough would sign a simple border security bill for it to pass, and do this piecemeal.  

After border security, all the Republicans can do is send up various versions of something related to ethnic cleansing bills, which won't pass.  Leaving illegals in legal limbo, undocumented, untraceable, and continuing to grow in population.  Maybe that's the "cure" you're looking for.  Until the GOP pulls it's head out, that's about the closest thing to a "cure" you're going to get.

[iplaw]

The Dems are in a strange predicament on this one.  They are walking a dangerous line by simultaneously siding with a president with low approval ratings while also ignoring the outcry from the American people against this bill.  There seems to be no good position for them to adopt.  If they side with the president they win the approval of the illegals but piss off the American people, if they side with the American people they lose the support of millions of illegals.  What a mess.

This should have been dealt with decades ago.

[MichaelC]

But, unlike the GOP, the Dems don't usually vote as a single block.  Meaning, if Bush would send down a "border security" bill, there would probably be enough Dems to pass it.  Maybe 40% of Dems.  

Still, it doesn't matter.  It's not going to happen.  The GOP is only interested in making this about "amnesty", and Bush is only interested in "comprehensive."  The GOP strategy could very well be to purposefully get nothing done on this specific issue, for the rest of the Bush term.

[rwarn17588]

Bush could send a piecemeal bill about border security, but I doubt he's smart enough to do it.

He genuinely looked like he had the wind knocked out him after the bill failed a second time, although I'm not sure why a guy whose approval numbers are in the high 20s / low 30s would have any confidence about ramming ANY proposal through.

[Hometown]

Democrat strategists have wanted Bush to fail because they want to capture the Latin demographic.  If this had passed Bush would be a hero to Latins.

Has anyone noticed a slight inconsistency in building a wall at the border at the same time that we open up U.S. roads to Canadian and Mexican truckers?  It's a provision of NAFTA that's been delayed for years now but I believe it's about to go into effect.

I want Inhofe, Coburn and Sullivan to get in touch with their friend Pete Wilson and ask him if there is a price to pay for institutionalized Xenophobia.

[Conan71]

FWIW MC- the border fence bill passed last year and the funds are supposedly "in the account" to build 700 miles of fence.  Why do we need yet another border security bill when the last one has not even been acted on?

I believe the hold up is attributed to enviro studies, anywhere from apathy to outrage by the Mexican Gov't (who gives three poops what they think?), and other assorted bureaucratic red tape.

I've been very clear on what I think a workable solution is.  I'm not part of the "deport 'em all" crowd.  It's ludicrous to think we can deport 12 to 20mm illegal aliens w/o crippling segments of our economy, causing severe inflation, and harming the human condition of millions of families.

There needs to be a sane path to citizenship for these people that doesn't amount to instantly making them American citizens- that is a poor solution as well.

I'll spare retyping my position on it, it's been on other topics we've broached the immigratin topic.

[Lister]

quote:Originally posted by Conan71

Lister, good photo.  I can't figure out if Kennedy just crapped his pants or Bush had and Teddy was reacting.

This is good news.  However, I still don't think these trolls in Washington get it.  Talk of the Fairness Doctrine keeps getting louder and louder as Senators think talk radio is wielding too much influence.

I think on this issue, talk radio has been listening better to what the citizens want than our leaders have been.

Instant citizenship is no cure for the immigration problem.

I couldn't agree with you more Conan.

[iplaw]

How are building a fence to keep illegals out and providing a highway for the free flow of goods not mutually exclusive ideas?  There is no conflict nor inconsistency in doing both simultaneously.

Xenophobia [zeh'nuh-FOH-bee-uh]

Noun

[1] Conflated definition that is purposefully used by rabid liberals to convince people that enforcing immigration laws is, in fact, racism.

[2] Hatemonger, Hateful

[3] Bolweevil

[MichaelC]

And there's plenty more border to secure, besides the 700 miles.  And part of it is partial funding.  Pass a bill that secures the Mexican border now, and funds it.  If walls take time, multiply border forces by 10.  Whatever.  Just do it, and stop screwin' around.

I think Bush's "comprehensive plan" is sane.  Maybe the only sane thing he's offered his entire presidency.  What's holding it up is the "deport them all" crowd and the "how we going to fund this without raising taxes" crowd.  And to sit here and say:

quote:Instant citizenship is no cure for the immigration problem.

That's not what Bush's plan is, as I'm sure you're fully aware.

Nothing will get done, until the GOP pulls it's head out and stops the cheerleading and rhetoric of stomping pragmatism for no apparent reason.  Absolutely nothing will get done.  If that's what you're looking for, congratulations.  The only people I know of that should really dig this, are illegals.

[Lister]

Nobody trusts Congress or the President to actually do what they propose, and that is the biggest problem. There are tons of laws on the books that they aren't enforcing already. They funded 700 miles of border fence last year and where's that gotten us? I think only 50 miles of this fence has been built.
Why should they believe this new comprehensive amnesty plan to put millions of illegal aliens on the quick path to citizenship be any different? It's good that it was shot down in its present form. Any time that Ted Kennedy and Dubya are on the same team, it's a bad sign.