PRESERVEMIDTOWN.com

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by midtownnewbie

I live in midtown and we have a rundown 1 1/2 story home on our street that is vacant, unmaintained and basically looks like crap.  I'd much rather have it sell for the land value and have a buider build a McMansion that will not only enhance our home value but will look better than the existing rundown shack!  JMO...

Where is it? I'll buy it, fix it up and make just as much money as replacing it yet keep the neighborhood happy. Seriously.

[RecycleMichael]

In my neighborhood, we have a variety of housing conditions.

The guy to the north of me just added on a 2,000 square foot, two story garage with bedrooms upstairs.

The guy to the south (whose house is probably only about 1,500 square feet) just trenched my yard by mistakingly backing a trailer filled with broken appliances that he has begun storing in his backyard.

I have garage envy and yard disgust depending on which way I enter the neighborhood.

[midtownnewbie]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

quote:Originally posted by midtownnewbie

I live in midtown and we have a rundown 1 1/2 story home on our street that is vacant, unmaintained and basically looks like crap.  I'd much rather have it sell for the land value and have a buider build a McMansion that will not only enhance our home value but will look better than the existing rundown shack!  JMO...

Where is it? I'll buy it, fix it up and make just as much money as replacing it yet keep the neighborhood happy. Seriously.

I would tell you, but the owner has already been approached by some of the neighbors and they don't want to sell it...

[mac]

One of the biggest problems that face older and historic neighborhoods are absent landlords who get the rent but put no money into maintenance. Or a few big developers who buy a piece property, allow it to deteriorate then describe it before the city commissions as a run down dump that needs to be demolished.
These neighborhoods are our legacy, our history and our future. How many cities can you name that has viable, affordable single family neighborhoods so near to downtown?

[ost]

What is the clear cut message that preserve midtown is trying to present?  Their site is crap.  Are they mad that people are building with no yards?  Are they mad that people are not building the style they like?  Are they mad that there are two stories where there are predominantly one stories?  I thought that we live in America not the old Soviet Union.  Diversity?  People should have the right to build whatever they like.  What if they want a larger house for their families?  What if they like modern architecture?  So, you can not build a new house in midtown without the ok of these individuals?  I can give you an example.  The first house built on my block was a mid-century modern.  No homes after them were modern.  So shouldn't every house on the block been modern?  Where do they propose someone build a two story modern?  Just because a home is not appealing to you does not give you the right to tell them what or where to build.  This is not the ideals of free society.

[Double A]

Live by the golden rule, right? Those who have the gold make the rules. Stay gold, pony boy.

[Rose]

It's unlike me to sit by and say nothing while a group of meddling busy bodies attempt to take away the rights of Tulsa property owners.  First they insult homeowners who live South of 51st by slamming the styles of newer homes -- the so called McMansion.  What a joke. Then, they single out specific developers and work hard to ruin business and progress.  

The city requires developers and individual property owners to go through proper proceedure when obtaining building permits, etc. The developer is not the bad guy.

I don't want to be told what color my home can be and what type of front door I can have.  That's why I chose not to buy property in a historic preservation district.  

I live in one of the most beautiful eclectic neighborhoods.  We are fortunate enough to have unique,designs completed in the 30's and 40's by McCormick, Forsythe and McCune and more recently by Arnold, Fox, Madewell and Turner.  There is something here for everyone.  It's the diversity which makes our neighborhood (and midtown for that matter) special.

It is telling when home sales lag in historic preservation districts and market values appear to be lower in some of those areas.  Many people don't want to be told what they can and can't do with their homes.  So, they don't buy in Maple Ridge.

This is America...not the Soviet Union.  Who decides what fits in and what doesn't?  Who decides what is tasteful and what is not?  


I guess we could all wear similar clothes - though some styles aren't as flattering on me as they are you.  We could drive cars that fit better into mid town.  Can we all afford a Lexus?

Bottom line is -- preserve tulsa people -- won't really be able to successfully change anything of significance. []I think the group should focus their energy on helping educate people on home maintenance so that when it comes time to sell -- the home is worth more than lot value.

SO GLAD TO HAVE THAT OFF MY CHEST!

[cannon_fodder]

Welcome to the world of posting Rose, feels good eh'?  []

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Rose

It's unlike me to sit by and say nothing while a group of meddling busy bodies attempt to take away the rights of Tulsa property owners.  First they insult homeowners who live South of 51st by slamming the styles of newer homes -- the so called McMansion.  What a joke. Then, they single out specific developers and work hard to ruin business and progress.  

The city requires developers and individual property owners to go through proper proceedure when obtaining building permits, etc. The developer is not the bad guy.

I don't want to be told what color my home can be and what type of front door I can have.  That's why I chose not to buy property in a historic preservation district.  

I live in one of the most beautiful eclectic neighborhoods.  We are fortunate enough to have unique,designs completed in the 30's and 40's by McCormick, Forsythe and McCune and more recently by Arnold, Fox, Madewell and Turner.  There is something here for everyone.  It's the diversity which makes our neighborhood (and midtown for that matter) special.

It is telling when home sales lag in historic preservation districts and market values appear to be lower in some of those areas.  Many people don't want to be told what they can and can't do with their homes.  So, they don't buy in Maple Ridge.

This is America...not the Soviet Union.  Who decides what fits in and what doesn't?  Who decides what is tasteful and what is not?  


I guess we could all wear similar clothes - though some styles aren't as flattering on me as they are you.  We could drive cars that fit better into mid town.  Can we all afford a Lexus?

Bottom line is -- preserve tulsa people -- won't really be able to successfully change anything of significance. []I think the group should focus their energy on helping educate people on home maintenance so that when it comes time to sell -- the home is worth more than lot value.

SO GLAD TO HAVE THAT OFF MY CHEST!

Rose, would you want to live next to that three story over garage monster that was featured on the web site? No we're not Russia, but we're not podunk either. You won't find high resale housing developments in South Tulsa that have hodgepodge styling. Successful developers know that without some uniformity of style, price and similar sized homes the values just don't hold up. Yet they come into existing midtown neighborhoods that have the same uniformity of construction, style and size and proceed to throw up homes that don't fit. Too big, too gaudy, too cheaply built and usually walled off from the rest of the hood.

Honestly, I think most of the developers ARE the bad guys. And, the idea that infill is the validation of older neighborhoods seems indefensible to me. Not everything you buy is with resale value in mind. Some people actually love old homes for what they are, their durability, their beauty and craftmanship. Where did that come from anyway?

[ost]

Waterboy,

So what you are saying is that if you want a large house in midtown that you can't build it unless there are large houses around you.  As for style, that is personal preference. You want to dictate what style and size is built?  This is America.  You don't get to dictate.  Also, for you to categorize new home construction as cheap is a bad blanket statement.  99% of the houses being torn down are dumps.  Yes,  with a lot of money they could be rehabed but some people want new homes that are energy efficient that provide space and open floor plans.

[waterboy]

Originally posted by ost

Waterboy,


So what you are saying is that if you want a large house in midtown that you can't build it unless there are large houses around you.

No. You would be foolish to do so and would attract the wrath of those already living there. Besides the fact that the largest home and the smallest home in a neighborhood are the hardest to resale and suffer in value you ignore the reality that those existing homebuyers have a right to their values and you will impact them.

As for style, that is personal preference. You want to dictate what style and size is built?  This is America.  You don't get to dictate.

Sorry, but I do if I am writing the covenants for the plat of the neighborhood. Or if I am on one of the boards protecting the interests of the existing homeowners in that hood. Its a legal thing that has kept neighborhoods safe from predator infill development for a century or more.

Also, for you to categorize new home construction as cheap is a bad blanket statement.

I am the son of a painting contractor and spent many a year watching, participating in and understanding the building process. Most of them are cheaply made, even the expensive ones. Try to drive a nail in the Loblolly pine in my 90year old rafters and watch the nail bend. Rent a jack hammer to break through the foundation that used higher density concrete. Compare and contrast and you have no case.

99% of the houses being torn down are dumps.  Yes,  with a lot of money they could be rehabed but some people want new homes that are energy efficient that provide space and open floor plans.

Your 99% figure seems to come from your own mind. Nonetheless, many of them were purposely not maintained so as to entice developers and boost the case to the zoning boards that they are worthy of replacing. You should watch the process up close and see how it is done.

Then consider how you would like having your quaint little bungalow neighborhood assaulted with a three story cheaply built but open floor plan monster.

[Double A]

Right on, WB! I couldn't have said it better myself. Keep up the good work!

[TheArtist]

HA! properly sized image. Did someone violate the neighborhood covenants? []

[Double A]

Originally posted by TheArtistGood one, T.A. I guess somebody got their feelings hurt and the drones are obeying their queen. It's a petty move, but I think it's quite funny, really. I enjoy it immensely because it gives me the confirmation and the satifactionof knowing that I've smoked 'em out of the hive. They are confused, disoriented, and lashing out in the wrong directions while I remove the queen. They should thank me, the queen has infected the hive with colony collapse disorder, removing her might save the hive before it spreads from the diseased, decaying, queen's court. Of course, those worker bees and drones closest to the queen(ya know, the ones in her court) have been infected and must be removed as well to protect the health and safety of the hive. It's a shame they are doomed to suffer the same unpleasant fate as their queen, at least they can take solace in the fact they will share their fate together. My prognosis is the condition is terminal and they won't survive to see the next election. If there is anything I can do to help ease the pain of there passing, don't bother asking. They deserve a slow painful exit.

[Rose]

Waterboy,
Where in Tulsa is that 3 story you mentioned?  

Those "preserve midtown", "stop the chop", and "stop the box" signs are going to REALLY impress our visitors here for the PGA.

Not podunk?  Hmm.  We seem to be held back by unsophisticated parochial people who refuse change.  

You ask if I'd like to live across the street from the 3 story. Well, I do live across the street from a home I don't aesthetically appreciate.  It's ugly (in my opinion). However, my money didn't pay for it.  They may not be fond of my landscaping choices or how rowdy my kids are.  So what.  It hasn't hurt the resale value in our neighborhood.  

Just so you know, I live in a home that was built in the 30's.  I loved it at first sight.  But I have to admit, we've spent a small fortune making it liveable.  It works for me but would not be for everyone. I love homes full of historic character.  But, I think it is presumptious to tell others what they should choose.  

Let's get over ourselves and let people be.

The city sets guidelines for new construction and remodeling -- called ...building permits. As far as I'm concerned, if a person plays by the rules they should be left alone.

Mid-town is a wonderful place to live, except for the problem of neighbors trying to tell you what you can do with your little square of real estate.  

McMansion, McDive, McAnything!  It's clear we all love midtown. Why take away choice?  What are you really afraid of?