What's with all the Brick?

[ttown_jeff]

Will every single sidewalk in downtown Tulsa be paved in brick?  I thought they stopped using bricks to pave in 1913. There is probably a reason for that.

What happens when one of those bricks come up?  

I could show you 500 examples right now of missing, cracked, disrepaired brick surfaces downtown already.

Are we going to have illegals walking around downtown replacing bricks?

I'd bet someone "special" owns the brick market in Tulsa.

So many questions....
What's wrong with concrete sidewalks?

[tulsa1603]

I think they spec them only becuase they have a character that people like.  But you're right, they quit using them in the first half of the 1900's for a reason.  

They require extra maintenance.  And in 20 years when they need to be replaced in an area, they won't match.  What's wrong with plain old concrete, scored in some kind of grid pattern?  

Look at the bricks on the crosswalks in Brookside, already crumbling.  The bricks on 5th street between Denver and Boulder - crumbling.

[sgrizzle]

They aren't using bricks anymore downtown. They are using Pavestone concrete pavers.

[TheArtist]

I like the concrete bricks better than just plain concrete. Kind of wished they had formulated something uniqe it probably wouldnt have cost too much more. Remember the sidewalks that shimmered like they had diamonds in them. There was some story that they actually were real diamonds. IT was actually mica that they simply mixed into the cement.  I think with only a bit of extra thought and effort and a tiny bit more expense they could have made these bricks more unique and beautiful and made Tulsas sidewalks stand out.  

Perhaps on the next overhaul we can start doing granit slabs or cobblestones. They always look immaculate and last forever. If you have been to cities where they use them for their sidewalks and streets they look as new as the day they put them in even if it was a hundred years ago.

I was suprised to see they weren't at least using granite curbing.
 http://www.americangranitecurb.org/economiccomparison.htm

One thing I have fount interesting is the movement to get rid of curbs all together. Many cities in Europe are moving to "psychological traffic regulation" versus using signs and such. Cobblestones can slow people down, roundabouts slow people down and move them more efficiently, eliminating curbs slows people down and even enhances safety. Not to mention eliminating stop lights, speed limit signs etc. improves the appearances of an area.

http://rs.resalliance.org/2006/12/03/traffic-safety-regulation-vs-self-organization

[tulsascoot]

I've wanted more brickwork for streets and sidewalks ever since I went to Europe last year. Freakin' parking lots for grocery store, century old town squares, urban thoroughfares, and most sidewalks are brick. Many of them are hundreds of years old. Many of them are new.

The character of a brick roadway and connecting sidewalk is much more appealing than bland concrete sidewalks.

And quit being afraid of illegals, they won't be taking your job, unless you wash dishes, and then they will probably do it better than you.

[dsjeffries]

quote:Originally posted by tulsascoot

I've wanted more brickwork for streets and sidewalks ever since I went to Europe last year. Freakin' parking lots for grocery store, century old town squares, urban thoroughfares, and most sidewalks are brick. Many of them are hundreds of years old. Many of them are new.

The character of a brick roadway and connecting sidewalk is much more appealing than bland concrete sidewalks.

And quit being afraid of illegals, they won't be taking your job, unless you wash dishes, and then they will probably do it better than you.

One great thing about using brick or stone is that, like in Germany, you use a light-colored stone and a darker stone, there's no need to re-paint stripes on roads, to mark lanes, parking spaces, crosswalks, etc.

[PonderInc]

I just wish they would lay them right.  If you don't come back and put more sand in the cracks, the bricks come loose and pop out over time.  I've noticed that they lay them and put the sand on, but after a few weeks, the sand settles, and there are lots of gaps to fill...which nobody comes back to do.  After a while the bricks pop up, and people like me who walk around town looking at architectural details trip on them.

Not sure what's going on in Brookside either, but the bricks have been buckling in the streets ever since they were installed.  I've heard of "traffic calming" but this is ridiculous!  The potholes were more gentle on my car.

[booWorld]

I prefer the relatively smooth concrete sidewalks to the relatively rough and uneven unit paver (brick) sidewalks.  If unit pavers are to be used, I'd rather see them in the vehicular traffic lanes than on the sidewalks and in the crosswalks where most of the pedestrians are.

[OKC_Shane]

They look so much nicer.

[AVERAGE JOE]

quote:Originally posted by OKC_Shane

They look so much nicer.

They look like a cheap weekend warrior project to me. They're not as easy for women in heels to walk on, the bricks settle unevenly over time, the colors fade... just good old concrete sidewalks are far superior. Add a little brick ribbon at the curb if you need to fluff it up.

And there's nothing old-timey about brick sidewalks in Tulsa. We never had them. We went from wooden boardwalks to concrete sidewalks when we paved the dirt roads. Our streets used to be brick, but never our sidewalks.

[booWorld]

I remember a few brick sidewalks in Tulsa, on the west side of the 900 block of South Cheyenne, for example.  But I think the City has gone overboard lately with the unit pavers downtown.  Until recently, Boston had fairly good and smooth sidewalks from 3rd to 7th.  There were a few rough spots, especially the sidewalk along the Thompson Building which was actually concrete stamped to look like brick.  So much good concrete has been removed this year and is now being SLOWLY, SLOWLY, SLOWLY replaced with rough, uneven unit pavers.  Some of the sidewalks seem to slope down toward the buildings instead of toward to curbs, such as near the Philcade Building at the corner of 5th.  This is a bad design because most of the buildings along that portion of Boston have basements, and many of those basements extend beyond the property lines and below the sidewalks.  It's not a good idea to channel surface runoff toward buildings and basements.  

Meanwhile, there are some areas with horrible sidewalks in dire need of replacement (with smooth concrete), such as the west side of Cheyenne between 5th and 6th.  It doesn't make much sense to me to remove relatively good sidewalks and to replace them with inferior work while other sidewalks downtown go untouched a few blocks away.  Priorities are mixed up.

[booWorld]

The City needs to avoid these brick-like pavers.

They have failed to perform well in Brookside.

[MichaelBates]

Someone told me (maybe it was RecycleMichael) that because of clean air regulations, they can't make bricks nowadays as tough as the ones that were used for streets in the early 20th Century. Something about not being able to bake the bricks at a high enough temperature.

Didn't we learn our lesson from all the problems with the bricks on west 5th St.? How many more blocks of sidewalks could we fix downtown for the same money if we used concrete (with sparkly stuff mixed in for that diamond effect) instead of pavers?

Between the badly designed lighting and the overindulgence in brick, downtown streetscaping isn't working out as well as it should have.

[Breadburner]

Bricks are clay...Pavers are concrete.....The pavers are failing on Brookside because of the base not being properly prepped....

[tim huntzinger]

The pavers do not look like they are being crushed, just pushed down below the edge of the concrete.  Seemed weird to put those on an arterial (sp?) street.