A grassroots organization focused on the intelligent and sustainable development, preservation and revitalization of Tulsa.
 
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
Did you miss your activation email?
September 24, 2024, 10:17:30 pm
Pages: [1] 2   Go Down
  Print  
Author Topic: Big Splash Getting Failing Grades From ODOL  (Read 4833 times)
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 29334



« on: July 11, 2007, 07:19:37 am »

KRMG has been running a special report this week on Oklahoma water parks which are now regulated by the Dept. of Labor.

Big Splash has issues with wiring, structural timbers, etc.

Just plain fascinating how the unfair board jack-booted out an amusement park with recent and planned improvements over another venue on the grounds which is ostensibly rotting to the ground.
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
TulsaSooner
Guest
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2007, 07:30:26 am »

Soon we will have the largest midtown parking lot in the world!
Logged
AngieB
Proud Westsider
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1539



« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2007, 07:41:07 am »

You may be right. Big Splash may very well be on its way out.

A friend of mine was having lunch out last week and three men at an adjacent table were discussing Big Splash's problems, debt, lawsuits...etc. She didn't get the impression from her accidental eavesdropping that they were speculating. They sounded like they knew what they were talking about.

So take that for what it's worth. Ya never know...
Logged
AMP
Guest
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2007, 08:03:43 am »

These businesses that appear to have a revenue problem causing lacking funds for proper maintenance may reflect back on that report of the low cost of living in the area.  Or is it a indirect result of low wages?  

Businesses that maintain ticket pricing from the 1980's obviously cannot keep up with their maintenance requirements.  Seems other Amusement Parks have fallen victim to this same fate.  

Many argue that Video Games and Television, which are not inexpensive, have taken away from outdoor activities, and that may be keeping enough people away to where there is little or no profit margin at the current pricing.  

So is it the market not being able to afford to pay today's required ticket price to keep these types of businesses maintained properly?  

Perhaps the wages in this area of the U.S. are not at a level high enough that will allow us to afford such luxuries such as a properly maintained Amusement Parks, Water Parks, Golf Courses and Racetracks.  

I see that same problem with a couple of motorsports businesses I consult for. Ticket pricing and participant pricing set too low for the business to operate properly in their location, yet alone grow.  

Nothing worse for a small business than to find themselves behind the 8 Ball so to speak on their pricing for services.  Much easier to move the bar up in small bites along with the increased cost of living and required maintenance regiments, than to have to adjust all at once for 10 plus years of missing the mark.  

Easy way to avoid that problem is to go online and Google other businesses similar to yours and check their pricing a few times during the season.  

Of course if the market will not keep up with the costs, the results is dragging out the inevitable by stealing from Peter to pay Paul by neglecting maintenance and other expenses, downsizing, or worse case closing the business.
 
Some business owners enjoy the luxury of having more than a single revenue stream, of which they can inject additional operating funds into a failing business, thus creating a false sense of security.  

I believe the bottom line is if the market will not support the expenses while maintaining an adequate profit margin, the results are what you we are reading today in these reports.
Logged
TulsaSooner
Guest
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2007, 08:10:35 am »

It seems to me that a city this size should easily be able to support a single water and/or amusement park but I guess not.  [Sad]

Logged
NellieBly
Guest
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2007, 09:04:36 am »

Maybe if they had not deferred maintenance for more than 10 years and made improvements to rides and added rides over the years, people would want to go there. It's a sorry excuse for a water park and pretty much always has been.

I would rather take the kids to McClure pool. It's clean, safe and cheap.
Logged
sgrizzle
Kung Fu Treachery
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 16038


Inconceivable!


WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2007, 09:10:01 am »

Big Splash is guilty of all the same things they accused Bells of, except the owners gave money to Randi Miller's mayoral run.

The place was built on the cheap, has had safety problems since it opened, and has been poorly maintained ever since.
Logged
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 29334



« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2007, 09:58:44 am »

quote:
Originally posted by AMP

I believe the bottom line is if the market will not support the expenses while maintaining an adequate profit margin, the results are what you we are reading today in these reports.




Is it that the market won't support price increases or the owner/management's paradigm about what the public is willing to pay?

I dare say that if Bell's had gone with a fixed gate admission of $15.00, all rides inclusive, they could have kept out the riff-raff the last few years and kept the park up a little better.  

No, the same family of four likely wouldn't come back every Friday, but it's no more expensive than an outing at Keystone or another area lake when you figure in gas, launch fees, gas for the boat, etc.

It only cost $3.00 to go in and loiter around.  That in itself was enough disincentive for parents with real money to spend to let their kids go there.  

Bell's Pricing

No, it wouldn't have kept Randi Miller & Clark Brewster the fair board from their short-sighted closing, but Bell's might have the finances in the bank today to actually re-open somewhere.

Now, here is the pricing for Big Splash:

Big Splash $$

$19.95 and various other rates.  That is the kind of admission which should keep it profitable and not cheap enough to encourage criminal-minded loitering.  However, this might be an admission price which is too high for the average family and fits AMP's comments.  Perhaps lowering this price by $5.00 per head might actually raise total gross revenue by making it more accessible to more people's budgets.

That place looks packed everytime I go by there, though it could be mostly season pass holders.  I doubt there are any financial troubles other than Murphy raking off profit and not ploughing it back into maintenance.  
If it is true that Bell's rent of $135K was more than twice as much as any other tenant, then Big Splash is only paying at the most $67K or thereabouts.

Granted, Big Splash has a shorter season than Bell's did- pretty much Memorial Day to Labor Day (give or take a few weeks).

Here's a random sampling of other parks in the region:

Six Flags Arlington, Tx.- $31.99 at the gate, $25.99 via the internet.  SFD does all kinds of promotions with DFW area residents with special ticket prices to keep them coming.  Seven or so roller coasters and major attractions, big concerts- great regional draw.

Frontier City, OKC- $25.99 at the gate.  Not exactly a Six Flags (Six Flags has sold off Frontier City) as far as attractions, somewhat of a regional draw.

Whitewater Bay, OKC- $21.99 also divested from the Six Flags family this year apparently to the same holding company which bought FC and other smaller non-branded Six Flags parks.

Worlds of Fun, KC- $37.95

Oceans of Fun, KC- $26.95

The random sampling seems to show that water parks charge less for admission than ride parks do.

Since the average wage in OKC and surrounding rural areas isn't significantly higher than Tulsa, that makes it hard to really believe it's a wage-earner issue at all.

I'm not personally aware of any of these other parks suffering financially.  I don't believe there were financial problems with the two OKC parks which led to their sale, they just didn't meet the Six Flags business model is the gist of all I read on it awhile back.

I guess if I were to distill this into one paragraph:

Bell's should have been charging more for gate admission and made it all-inclusive.  This would have short-circuited the gang problems, allowed them to pay more rent, and have more improvements.  None of those though seem to me like the real reason Bell's lost it's lease.  On the other hand, Big Splash, while paying less rent and charging more for admission sounds like they aren't taking care of the place.

To me, it all sounds like owner mis-management.
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
AMP
Guest
« Reply #8 on: July 11, 2007, 11:18:41 am »

An A for the grade of your report.  Something others that own or manage businesses especially ticketed events should do every quarter to keep up with the times.  Nothing worse than getting trapped behind the 8 Ball in pricing.  Be especially cost aware when ever a minimum wage increase is on the horizon, those will kill your profits and run off your trained employees if you are not prepared for the increase as the entire floor of payroll raises along with the minimum wage helpers.

Also add in the Parking Fees for the other parks on your list.  Believe Six Flags is around $9 bucks and I believe Frontier City charged us last visit may of been $5 for parking.  

Like eating an elephant, one bite at a time.  Charging fees at various stations during a visit makes it seem like it costs less overall than hitting you all at once.  Plus others in your goup will offer to handle the small bites if you take on the larger ones.  LOL

I remember parking fees during the Tulsa State Fair back in the day.  People wearing an orange vest along with a cash belt type thing with a coin changer like the ice cream man had.  

Making those comparissions it still appears that the Texas economy is doing much better than ours here.  Plus I got gasoline for $1.72 when I traveled there to earn my $750 working there last weekend.  Can't complain about the condition of the racetracks and facilities in Texas.  They are some of the state of the art type venues.

Don't see too many of these in Oklahoma.

The rent on one of these tracks runs around $16,000 per weekend.

http://www.motorsportranch.com/

http://www.motorsportranch.com/villas.cfm

http://www.msrhouston.com/

http://www.texasworldspeedway.com/pics.htm
Logged
Double A
Sofa King Banned
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 2718


WWW
« Reply #9 on: July 11, 2007, 11:29:54 am »

Randi Miller is dead meat. She should spare herself the embarrassment of a crushing defeat and retire from public service at the end of her term.
Logged

<center>
</center>
The clash of ideas is the sound of freedom. Ars Longa, Vita Brevis!
Shavethewhales
Guest
« Reply #10 on: July 11, 2007, 12:48:27 pm »

There's no reason for Big Splash to be in this state. They have regularly hauled in an acceptable amount of profit, and with low rent, no construction costs, and apparently little maintainence costs, they should easily have all the money they need to turn the park into a classy resort. They never will though, not in a million years, because they know that Tulsans will keep coming back to the same old slides and mediocre pools, especially now that there's nothing else to do around.
Logged
Wrinkle
Guest
« Reply #11 on: July 11, 2007, 08:44:13 pm »

The City even cooperates with the marketing plan by keeping as many public pools closed as possible.

Actually, the County obviously plans to eliminate Big Splash, along with Driller Park and [the former] Bell's, and we heard this week of the Health Dept planning to leave the fairgrounds. They have BIG plans.

Remember this first forte into abandonment of Big Splash awhile back?

They were trying to get paid to leave then.
Logged
USRufnex
Guest
« Reply #12 on: July 11, 2007, 09:35:40 pm »

So, what are those BIG plans?
Bueller?  Bueller?... oh, wait... Bueller's signed a confidentiality agreement and has no comment at this time...  [Cheesy]
Logged
YoungTulsan
City Father
*****
Offline Offline

Posts: 1349


WWW
« Reply #13 on: July 12, 2007, 12:08:35 am »

Im reading these threads in disbelief.  Who exactly has big plans for the fairgrounds?  The county, the city (who wants it annexed), business interests, or who?

That just seems ridiculous to run off Bells, and have plans to run off the Drillers and Big Splash.  What on earth could be planned for the area?  The world's largest parking lot?

Maybe it'll be parking for City Hall with a shuttle service to the cube.

Does anyone have any theories on what in the hell they would need to clear the entire fairgrounds out for?   Keep in mind, Im not part of the horse race, livestock show, RV exhibit, Spittoon olympics, or whatever the freak they do at Expo currently - crowd.
Logged

 
Conan71
Recovering Republican
T-Town Elder
******
Offline Offline

Posts: 29334



« Reply #14 on: July 12, 2007, 08:45:28 am »

Pure speculation:

Lease the entire east end of the fairgrounds to a tribe for a massive casino/horse racing complex and the world's largest smoke shop and Pilot petro mall for $1 per year plus a % of the take after the mob, tribe, and state get their skim off the top.  In other words, it'll generate about $100,000 per year and since it's a tribe we won't get any sales tax revenue.  But somehow we will be told this is good for Tulsa. [xx(]

I noticed on the link to the blog someone posted there was mention of the un-paid water bill at Big Splash.  Point of historical accuracy here:  The city used to base all sewer charges on the water going through the supply meter at the property, commercial or residential.  Oral Roberts also had a dispute with the city on their water bill.  This was incorrectly portrayed in the media as financial problems for BS and ORU.

Not the case.  They were protesting paying sewer rates for water which evaporated.  ORU uses large chiller systems which rely on water through evaporative cooling towers.  Lot's of commercial property owners who use evaporative cooling caught on to this and eventually the city began to allow for evaporation.  That would take us off in another direction as to how all this is done, so I digress.

If you look at your water bill these days, your sewer rate is calculated using your average winter water usage because it is assumed people don't water their yards or fill swimming pools in the winter.
Logged

"It has been said that politics is the second oldest profession. I have learned that it bears a striking resemblance to the first” -Ronald Reagan
Pages: [1] 2   Go Up
  Print  
 
Jump to:  

 
  Hosted by TulsaConnect and Powered by SMF 1.1.21 | SMF © 2015, Simple Machines
 

Mission

 

"TulsaNow's Mission is to help Tulsa become the most vibrant, diverse, sustainable and prosperous city of our size. We achieve this by focusing on the development of Tulsa's distinctive identity and economic growth around a dynamic, urban core, complemented by a constellation of livable, thriving communities."
more...

 

Contact

 

2210 S Main St.
Tulsa, OK 74114
(918) 409-2669
info@tulsanow.org