River Plan- Taxes/Funding

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
[

The West Bank concrete plant was allegedly sold this year by Roger Hardesty, local Concrete Magnate, to a Mexican Concrete Cartel.

As reported in the Lorton's World.

Wasn't it just the concrete business that they bought? Did they buy the land?

Artist there is land other than what you mentioned. Including along Avery Drive, County land near the proposed Gilcrease bridge, Newblock park, the soccer fields next to PSO, and of course the ever popular "fill in the river" process that the Indians used to build their gambling palace.

[TheArtist]

quote:Originally posted by Rico

So.... Senor....

Buford.... selling any of his parcels has never crossed your mind..?

The acquisition of a few.... hell.., make it and even "20" Riverside homes between 21st and 41st would not be an issue..??
I know they are zoned a certain way now....

but without zoning and development guidelines for the entire corridor.... What makes you feel they are protected from whatever the highest buck wants to make of them,,?
Ms Miller is once again on the side of a "hurry up and decide" issue.. Not so different than the way the Islands were thrown at the Tulsa public.............

and a very happy Bing Thom to you....!





Originally posted by the Artist.

I would like to say, "Trust the city officials" because they understand that area is the most important commercial development area. However, after the Kum and Go incedent, one has to be very wary.


[}:)]

Thats absurd to even bring up the area between 21st and 41st.  If thats such a desirable area to build a gas station or some other development, and its easy to do so now, whats been stopping them from doing it... well heck, my entire life? "protected from the highest buck" you make it sound like there is a bidding war going on that I dont know about?

I have no idea who Buford is btw.

As for Avery drive, Gilcrease Bridge, Newblock Park, etc. I have no idea where those things are? All Terra Incognito to me. So if I have never seen them I don't really care what they build there. Must get a lot of Traffic and be in a booming area if it is likely to get a gas station or a Micky-Ds every 100 yards.  And if those are such desirable areas for them, why haven't they been built there up till now?

[sgrizzle]

Yes, it was my understanding they bought the company but not the facility.

[Rico]

"As for Avery drive, Gilcrease Bridge, Newblock Park, etc. I have no idea where those things are? All Terra Incognito to me. So if I have never seen them I don't really care what they build there. Must get a lot of Traffic and be in a booming area if it is likely to get a gas station or a Micky-Ds every 100 yards. And if those are such desirable areas for them, why haven't they been built there up till now?"

^

Sounds as though you have done ample research to be an informed advocate for this cause.........

For the record....

Buford owns that little tiny white house on Riverside with the 40 acres, or so, front yard..

I have heard it called many things.... But from now on... I kinda like the name "Terra Incognito"  
[]

[pmcalk]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist
As for Avery drive, Gilcrease Bridge, Newblock Park, etc. I have no idea where those things are? All Terra Incognito to me.

Sorry if I sound condecending, but you really should get out to see the city more.  As an artist, you should at least be familiar with Waterworks studio, in Newblock Park. Not only a great service to the community, but a really cool building as well. http://www.cityoftulsa.org/Recreation/Parks/WaterWorks.asp

[Double A]

quote:Originally posted by Friendly Bear

Uh, one problem:  Don't the Indians own everything from Arkansas river bank to river bank, including water, sand, dirt, minerals, fish, and game, from some treaty back with President Millard Fillmore??

                                              Does a Friendly Bear s*#t in the woods?(Sorry, I couldn't resist) As long as the grass grows and the water flows, babe.

[Double A]

This alone is enough reason to oppose this river tax        

[sgrizzle]

Is our mayor that short?

Who's the woman in the back doing the Derek Zoolander pose?

[waterboy]

quote:Originally posted by TheArtist

quote:Originally posted by Rico

So.... Senor....

[}:)]

Thats absurd to even bring up the area between 21st and 41st.  If thats such a desirable area to build a gas station or some other development, and its easy to do so now, whats been stopping them from doing it... well heck, my entire life? "protected from the highest buck" you make it sound like there is a bidding war going on that I dont know about?

I have no idea who Buford is btw.

As for Avery drive, Gilcrease Bridge, Newblock Park, etc. I have no idea where those things are? All Terra Incognito to me. So if I have never seen them I don't really care what they build there. Must get a lot of Traffic and be in a booming area if it is likely to get a gas station or a Micky-Ds every 100 yards.  And if those are such desirable areas for them, why haven't they been built there up till now?

Nice job of cherry picking my post. Its embarrasing enough that you don't know Avery drive or Newblock, but just take the PSO soccer fields, or what the Indians did at 81st. Then remember that regardless of what officials proclaim, the rights to the river are not all that settled. They could press the case and force a settlement. You like their style of building and advertising the casino?

[Wilbur]

Does no one remember what happened along the river in 1984 and 1986?  Not sure I want too much taxpayer money spent on the river to find in under water someday.  Private industry wants to build and have flood insurance, fine.

[waterboy]

One last comment then i go to work.

I find myself in strange company with anti-tax and anti-river forces, AA, FB and the dean of inside info, Conan. But the truth is this:

There is no guarantee with sales tax funding that this plan will ever come to fruition. They can spend the money any way they please then come back later with pleas for more. Kind of like a bad remodeling contractor. The money will likely be moved to roads, arena and downtown if past history is repeated.

Oversight is self administered. So many lies and half truths about the river and its development have been promoted for so long that credibility is shot.

There is no overall zoning plan that I can determine. Artist made me aware of that, yet now seems to overlook its importance.

There is no focus for the river plans. If this were a business plan that a bank was considering funding, that would kill it. Where is the excitement? A roller coaster, a cable car, a fountain...anything...is more exciting than just walks along a pretty (expensive) river bank. "Hey honey, while we're in town lets go watch the immigrants fish off the pier!"

No interconnected areas. This is a killer for me. Without locks/dams, lifts, canal connections between each lake, the synergy of the development is blunted. You expect there to be three different dinner cruises, excursion boats, rental operations etc.?? No, worse yet little thought has even been given to that type of develpment because everyone's focussed on retail, lofts and other commercial. good luck with that.

I am totally disgusted that the inertia of bureaucracy will keep this river comfortably cosmopolitan for another generation. Find another way to fund it, provide public oversight, find a focus (the channels at least had one) and a comprehensive zoning program or bug off.

[Friendly Bear]

quote:Originally posted by Double A

This alone is enough reason to oppose this river tax        

Not quite visible in this picture are Randi Miller's knees knocking, while taking the measure of that Hunk-a-Hunk-of-Burning-Love ARVEST President Don Walker.

Mayor Taylor, on the other hand, is happy to see that Mr. Walker has found the missing IUD, and is holding it up in his left hand, looking for a claimant.

[Conan71]

quote:Originally posted by waterboy

There is no focus for the river plans. If this were a business plan that a bank was considering funding, that would kill it.

That's the funny part WB- Don Walker with Arvest is one of the big proponents...LOL!

Sgrizz- the Derek Zoolander character is one of the mover-and-shaker TYPros or YP's or whatever they call themselves when they are patting themselves on the back whilst having drinks at Suede's or McNellie's.

[rwarn17588]

I think the locals are going to want the roads repaired before approving improvements to the river. The river can wait; the roads can't. The beating our roads took this past winter cinches that.

[RecycleMichael]

If Randi Miller can't get another Commissioner to agree, there won't be a vote and this plan will be the same as the Channels.

I am not sure either of the other two want this vote.

This whole discussion is probably moot.