Tulsa's exciting rail possibilities

[DTowner]

110 miles at 1hour 40 minutes is 66 mph if my math still works. That amounts to 6 mph faster. Marginal difference. I haven't had your luck with road construction and traffic but then I often go in the fall when OU football traffic is common. The last trip I took was two weeks ago and only found a couple miles of road work.  Mostly its just trucks causing slowdowns as they try to make it up the hilly portions. I tried to stay at 70-75 but still only averaged 65 for the trip.

For such a short distance, I doubt even high speed rail would compete on time with the car for a trip between OKC and Tulsa.  Unless you live/work by the station and your trip ends at the station on the other end, there wll necessarily be travel time in addition to the train.  Plus, it is likely this trip will have at least a couple of stops along the way.  Rail does not have to be quicker than the trip by car, just not too inconvenient.  

Cost is also a factor.  Under current IRS rates a round trip between downtown Tulsa and downtown OKC is reimbursed at around $120, but how much would you pay for a train ride?


I don't know how savvy Westcott is, but I will reserve my euphoria over train travel until some real details about this project become public.

[patric]

I don't know how savvy Westcott is, but I will reserve my euphoria over train travel until some real details about this project become public.

A 40-minute ride from OKC to Tulsa on a MagLev would get peoples attention, otherwise, meh...

[jacobi]

Question: who would want to go to OKC?  I'm all for rail, but as a tourism factor, it's a meh.  I'd rather see a line between here and KC.  I recognize that it would be great for business travel and just plain old civic pride, but I think Tulsans would end up disappointed in what they would get out of the deal.

[rdj]

Question: who would want to go to OKC?  I'm all for rail, but as a tourism factor, it's a meh.  I'd rather see a line between here and KC.  I recognize that it would be great for business travel and just plain old civic pride, but I think Tulsans would end up disappointed in what they would get out of the deal.

Probably the 10 people I know that rented a limo to take them to the Thunder game and back last night.  I know of about 50 people that drove from Tulsa to OKC for the game last night.

[Townsend]

Question: who would want to go to OKC?  I'm all for rail, but as a tourism factor, it's a meh.  I'd rather see a line between here and KC.  I recognize that it would be great for business travel and just plain old civic pride, but I think Tulsans would end up disappointed in what they would get out of the deal.

Connect from Tulsa to OKC to DFW and you have a stronger reason to connect KC to Tulsa to OKC to DFW.

[Conan71]

Probably the 10 people I know that rented a limo to take them to the Thunder game and back last night.  I know of about 50 people that drove from Tulsa to OKC for the game last night.

Hmmmm, and the depot is like a block or two from Chesapeake Center.  Still not enough to justify an entire business around it though..

[nathanm]

Bring on this train! I don't care about its speed. I hope they have drive on rail cars so that I won't have to rent a car in OKC  and that it connects to Dallas/Ft Worth.

I'd rather rent a Hertz Connect car or something similar than bother with my own. They pay for gas and everything, just like ZipCar. Even the regular Hertz and Avis aren't bad, at the right location. Pick the wrong office and it takes for freakin' ever, though. (DT Tulsa Avis is actually really good, it's never taken me more than a couple of minutes to pick up or drop off)

[TheTed]

A lot of the success would also depend on the number of trips per day. If it's run more like the New Mexico railrunner, which has ~7 weekday departures each way from ABQ to Santa Fe, that could be a lot more alluring than a two or three times per day schedule.

You'd also hope they could adjust to demand, running Thunder specials that wait for the game to let out. And the same with OU football. Amtrak already serves Norman, so I'm hoping it wouldn't be too much trouble to extend the route to Norman for OU game days.

[TheTed]

I'd rather rent a Hertz Connect car or something similar than bother with my own. They pay for gas and everything, just like ZipCar. Even the regular Hertz and Avis aren't bad, at the right location. Pick the wrong office and it takes for freakin' ever, though. (DT Tulsa Avis is actually really good, it's never taken me more than a couple of minutes to pick up or drop off)

Somewhat related, but I saw that OKC now has bike sharing, at least according to this site:
http://spokiesokc.com/

[rdj]

Hmmmm, and the depot is like a block or two from Chesapeake Center.  Still not enough to justify an entire business around it though..

I'm not saying you'd build a business around it.  I was just giving a very fresh example of a potential customer.

Jacobi asserted that no Tulsan would ever want to visit OKC.  It's that type of arrogance and "looking down our nose" towards OKC that has created the animosity between the cities.  Frankly, OKC has a nice number of attractions that would make for a great long weekend.  That's just the type of trip that would lead a Tulsan to utilize rail service.

IMO, Tulsa & OKC should be looking at ways to partner and create a metroplex that consists of the two cities.  The combined demographics would be very appealing on many levels for business growth.  We have approx 70 miles of highway accessible underdeveloped land between the downtown areas.  We should encourage development along this corridor and avoid OKC becoming the newest suburb to DFW.

BTW, did everyone see that Blueknight (former Sem) is moving their HQ to OKC?  Notably, they are moving into the "midtown" area just north of downtown.  The urban revitalization in OKC is real and its moving at a great pace.  We better keep up or we'll be looking up at something great.

[Conan71]

I'm not saying you'd build a business around it.  I was just giving a very fresh example of a potential customer.

Jacobi asserted that no Tulsan would ever want to visit OKC.  It's that type of arrogance and "looking down our nose" towards OKC that has created the animosity between the cities.  Frankly, OKC has a nice number of attractions that would make for a great long weekend.  That's just the type of trip that would lead a Tulsan to utilize rail service.

IMO, Tulsa & OKC should be looking at ways to partner and create a metroplex that consists of the two cities.  The combined demographics would be very appealing on many levels for business growth.  We have approx 70 miles of highway accessible underdeveloped land between the downtown areas.  We should encourage development along this corridor and avoid OKC becoming the newest suburb to DFW.

BTW, did everyone see that Blueknight (former Sem) is moving their HQ to OKC?  Notably, they are moving into the "midtown" area just north of downtown.  The urban revitalization in OKC is real and its moving at a great pace.  We better keep up or we'll be looking up at something great.

Sorry, I didn't mean to sound snarky if it came off that way.  That could be a fun evening, take the train to OKC, dinner, concert, canal ride, then take the train back.  Vice Versa for the OKC crowd- well except the whole canal ride thing.  Could be good for both entertainment districts, for certain if we could get a small depot of sorts in the proximity of the Blue Dome, Brady, and BOK Center.

[nathanm]

IMO, Tulsa & OKC should be looking at ways to partner and create a metroplex that consists of the two cities.

If by "build a metroplex" you mean the forced suburbanization of the I-44 corridor between Tulsa and OKC, I don't think that's terribly wise. If you mean work together rather than against each other when it comes to drawing business to the state, I agree.

[rdj]

If by "build a metroplex" you mean the forced suburbanization of the I-44 corridor between Tulsa and OKC, I don't think that's terribly wise. If you mean work together rather than against each other when it comes to drawing business to the state, I agree.

The cities are going to grow.  Regardless of how many of us on this forum feel about "the suburbification" of America its part of our American heritage.  I'd prefer we plan to grow the cities together rather than apart.  Wouldn't you rather Tulsa & OKC become twin cities than for OKC to become a part of the DFW megaplex?  If you combine the two cities you have a metro area of over 2.3 million people today, that doesn't account for the future growth.

I'd love to see Stroud become a center of business activity that is supported by both metro areas.  Create an international airport that can fly residents, business people and cargo direct to all major airports in the US and beyond.  Turn Stroud into the future clean manufacturing capital of Oklahoma.  OKC has biotech, Tulsa has aerospace.  Let Stroud be high tech that would serve both industries and more.

Why couldn't you build a massive retail center there?  Ikea (just an example of a large retailer discussed on this forum recently) won't come to BA, but could they come to Stroud if supported by both MSA's?  What about a massive NFL stadium somewhere in the middle? 

The key is the funding formula for Oklahoma municipalities has to change.  As long as core services of city government are dependent on sales tax revenue it will be impossible for something like this to happen.

These are obviously big picture ideas.  All I hear from our state leaders are let's cut taxes and business will come.  Well, we need to invest in our infrastructure in a big way to give those business a place to land.  Oklahoma needs dreamers.  If we don't dream about what our two anchor metros could do together we'll never do anything but continue to lose to the rural power brokers of our state and the dreamers in the states that surround us.

[nathanm]

Regardless of how many of us on this forum feel about "the suburbification" of America its part of our American heritage.

If by heritage you mean foisted upon us by onerous land use regulations that outlaw dense mixed use neighborhoods, then yes. I would much rather see Tulsa and OKC increase their density and connect themselves with high speed transit. The era of the exurb is largely over, at least until we find something to replace gasoline that has similar energy density. That's not to say I think there's anything wrong with playing to our strengths and using some of that open land for industrial activity and even a new airport at some point in the future.

I agree that tax cuts will not help anything. It might help a few someones, but that's about it.

[Conan71]

The cities are going to grow.  Regardless of how many of us on this forum feel about "the suburbification" of America its part of our American heritage.  I'd prefer we plan to grow the cities together rather than apart.  Wouldn't you rather Tulsa & OKC become twin cities than for OKC to become a part of the DFW megaplex?  If you combine the two cities you have a metro area of over 2.3 million people today, that doesn't account for the future growth.

I'd love to see Stroud become a center of business activity that is supported by both metro areas.  Create an international airport that can fly residents, business people and cargo direct to all major airports in the US and beyond.  Turn Stroud into the future clean manufacturing capital of Oklahoma.  OKC has biotech, Tulsa has aerospace.  Let Stroud be high tech that would serve both industries and more.

Why couldn't you build a massive retail center there?  Ikea (just an example of a large retailer discussed on this forum recently) won't come to BA, but could they come to Stroud if supported by both MSA's?  What about a massive NFL stadium somewhere in the middle? 

The key is the funding formula for Oklahoma municipalities has to change.  As long as core services of city government are dependent on sales tax revenue it will be impossible for something like this to happen.

These are obviously big picture ideas.  All I hear from our state leaders are let's cut taxes and business will come.  Well, we need to invest in our infrastructure in a big way to give those business a place to land.  Oklahoma needs dreamers.  If we don't dream about what our two anchor metros could do together we'll never do anything but continue to lose to the rural power brokers of our state and the dreamers in the states that surround us.

Leave the mega-plexes to their own demise.  There are a lot of us who appreciate the smaller size of Tulsa and OKC vs. a Houston or Dallas.

By the time this could happen, I'll likely be a pile of ashes so it's a moot point for me anyhow.