Tulsa's exciting rail possibilities

[SXSW]

I've posted this before but it shows how different forms of rail can converge downtown with most of the existing right of way and infrastructure already in place.  There are two things I would change:

1.  The streetcar wouldn't be able to cross the freight tracks at-grade on Elgin.  Either a bridge is built here and the streetcar goes over the tracks or the line is shifted to the west and goes over the tracks at Detroit.

2.  Instead of bringing commuter rail lines along the freight corridor between 1st and Archer bring them into downtown along 3rd which would become a downtown transit corridor between the Convention Center/BOK Center and Blue Dome.  There would still be one car lane in each direction but on-street parking would be eliminated along 3rd and tracks/center platforms would be built with stops at Houston/Convention Center, Denver/BOK Center, Boulder (southbound streetcar), Cincinnati/PAC (northbound streetcar), Elgin/Blue Dome District, and Greenwood/East End.  It would be similar to the colored map below but with more stops downtown.  

Your thoughts?




Transit corridor in the center of 3rd through downtown similar to this setup in Denver:

[Conan71]

Does anyone have an overlay map of the original street car or rail alignments through the city, or has one been posted here before they would kindly link to?  Thanks!

[MichaelBates]

I put together a Google Earth KMZ file with the routes of the Tulsa Street Railway, Oklahoma Union Traction Co., and Sand Springs Railroad. I'm not sure how to embed it all here, but I've got it posted, along with a snapshot of the central Tulsa portion of the routes, on BatesLine.

Tulsa streetcar and interurban lines in Google Maps

[Conan71]

I put together a Google Earth KMZ file with the routes of the Tulsa Street Railway, Oklahoma Union Traction Co., and Sand Springs Railroad. I'm not sure how to embed it all here, but I've got it posted, along with a snapshot of the central Tulsa portion of the routes, on BatesLine.

Tulsa streetcar and interurban lines in Google Maps

How did you know I was conjuring you, Michael? Thanks, I figured you might have something like that!

[SXSW]

Thanks Michael.  I know you can still see where the tracks ran on some streets in midtown, does anyone have any examples of where you can see this?  I may try to trace these routes with my bike sometime and see what I come up with.

[MichaelBates]

Thanks Michael.  I know you can still see where the tracks ran on some streets in midtown, does anyone have any examples of where you can see this?  I may try to trace these routes with my bike sometime and see what I come up with.

Asphalt cracks that may reveal the presence of tracks beneath (or at least the track bed) can be seen on Archer downtown (east of Elgin, you can see where the Sand Springs RR tracks swung north to pass behind buildings on the west side of Greenwood) and on Quincy Ave. You can see a single set of track cracks fan out to a double track between 8th and 10th on Quincy. I posted some photos of trolley track cracks a while back.

[Red Arrow]

I put together a Google Earth KMZ file with the routes of the Tulsa Street Railway, Oklahoma Union Traction Co., and Sand Springs Railroad. I'm not sure how to embed it all here, but I've got it posted, along with a snapshot of the central Tulsa portion of the routes, on BatesLine.

Tulsa streetcar and interurban lines in Google Maps

Thanks.  I started working on doing a map from "When Oklahoma Took the Trolley".  I couldn't figure out the last segment of the OUT spur to Owen Park.  

[MichaelBates]

Thanks.  I started working on doing a map from "When Oklahoma Took the Trolley".  I couldn't figure out the last segment of the OUT spur to Owen Park. 

That's based on the 1918 "birds' eye" view of Tulsa.

[Red Arrow]

That's based on the 1918 "birds' eye" view of Tulsa.

I was trying to find either that or about a 1915 to 1920 city street map.  I wasn't successful.  Thanks

[stageidea]

I am not sure if this is the correct Tulsa "Rail" discussion but I found it interesting that out of the eight billion offered for rail development/service fifty-seven billion so far has been requested by states. 

North Carolina and Virgina ask for North Carolina and Virginia Ask for $5 Billion for High-Speed Rail (but Not the Only Ones)
http://cleantechnica.com/2009/12/30/north-carolina-and-virginia-ask-for-5-billion-for-high-speed-rail-but-not-the-only-ones/

[stageidea]

New Article in Wired on the subject:
http://www.wired.com/magazine/2010/01/ff_fasttrack/

[Patrick]

Thanks Michael.  I know you can still see where the tracks ran on some streets in midtown, does anyone have any examples of where you can see this?  I may try to trace these routes with my bike sometime and see what I come up with.

FYI in case you wanted to do this.  If you have an iPhone or Android device, there is a 'Google Tracks' app that uses GPS and records your route (time, speed, altitude, etc) and uploads it to your Google MyMaps account (part of Google Maps).  My wife and I use it to track our bike rides.

[dsjeffries]

Well, we struck out. No funding made its way to Oklahoma.

List of funded projects: http://www.whitehouse.gov/files/documents/100128_1400-HSRAwards-Summary_FRA%20Revisions.pdf

Tulsa World article:http://www.tulsaworld.com/news/article.aspx?subjectid=16&articleid=20100128_13_0_WASHIN499939

White House to dole out $8 billion in rail grants

By JOAN LOWY Associated Press Writer
Published: 1/28/2010  6:43 AM
Last Modified: 1/28/2010  6:43 AM

WASHINGTON — High-speed rail projects in California, Florida and Illinois are among the big winners of $8 billion in grants to be announced Thursday by the White House — the start of what some Democrats tout as a national rail-building program that could rival the interstate highways begun in the Eisenhower era.

Thirteen rail corridors in 31 states received funds. The White House, which supplied a list of the grants to reporters late Wednesday, billed the program as "high-speed rail," but only the California project calls for trains with maximum speeds exceeding the 200 mph achieved by some trains in Europe and Asia.

Some of the money will go toward trains with top speeds of 110 mph, while others — such as the $400 million allotted to Ohio to connect Cleveland, Columbus, Dayton and Cincinnati by rail — will go toward trains traveling no faster than 79 mph.

President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden are expected to pitch the program as a boost to the economy at a town hall meeting Thursday in Tampa, Fla. A half-dozen Cabinet members and other senior administration officials were scheduled to fan out across the country for rail events Thursday and Friday. The White House said rail projects will create or save thousands of jobs in areas like track laying, manufacturing, planning, engineering and rail maintenance and operations.

Except for Amtrak's Acela line between Boston and Washington, there are no high-speed trains in the U.S. and no domestic high-speed rail industry. Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood and members of Congress have acknowledged they expect much of the expertise and equipment to be supplied by foreign companies.

Congress set aside the $8 billion as part of the economic recovery plan enacted last year. The money is just a start. Last year, Obama asked Congress in his budget request for an additional $1 billion a year for five years. Congress for this year approved another $2.5 billion that remains to be awarded. And Obama is expected to ask for yet more rail funds when his budget is unveiled next week.

Also, LaHood has hinted that some of the $1.5 billion allotted in the stimulus plan for discretionary transportation projects may go toward high-speed rail.

Japan launched the first high-speed trains in 1964, and France and other European countries followed in the 1980s and 1990s. China has announced plans to expand its high-speed rail system to a network of more than 16,000 miles by the year 2020 and has spent more than $50 billion.

Projects awarded the largest grants include:

— California: $2.3 billion to begin work on an 800-mile-long, high-speed rail line tying Sacramento and the San Francisco Bay area to Los Angeles and San Diego.

— Florida: $1.25 billion to build a rail line connecting Tampa on the West Coast with Orlando in the middle of the state, eventually going south to Miami.

— Illinois-Missouri: $1.1 billion to improve a rail line between Chicago and St. Louis so that trains travel up to 110 mph.

— Wisconsin: $810 million to upgrade and refurbish train stations and install safety equipment on the Madison-to-Milwaukee leg of a line that stretches from Minneapolis to Chicago.

— Washington-Oregon: $590 million to upgrade a rail line from Seattle to Portland, Ore.

— North Carolina: $520 million for projects that will increase top speeds to 90 mph on trains between Raleigh and Charlotte and double the number of round trips.

By spreading the $8 billion among so many states, Obama is ignoring the advice of transportation experts and high-speed rail advocates who said the best way to build continuing political support for the program would be to concentrate on two or three grants large enough to get a high-speed line up and running. Once that happens, they reasoned, other parts of the country would lobby for more money to build their own lines.

"We can't try to touch as many political bases as we can with that money. We have got to do major projects," Pennsylvania Gov. Ed Rendell said in a recent interview.

Sen. Dick Durbin, D-Ill., disagreed. "You really have to look at local and regional approaches to create the political will to expand the program," he said.

[TheTed]

Every time we have a winter storm, I'm reminded of how pathetic our transportation infrastructure is. If we had commuter and/or intercity rail, at least we'd have something that wouldn't be crippled by weather.

Imagine how many people would be taking the train in from BA today or how many would be taking Amtrak because most of the flights are cancelled.

[stageidea]

We somehow ended up on the map even though we didn't receive any funding. 

High-Speed Rail for the US, Finally! (cleantechnica.com)

http://cleantechnica.com/2010/01/28/high-speed-rail-for-the-us-finally/